Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Chris_Halkides]

DNA deposits

*Sigh*

The defence lawyers are certainly not going to appeal on this basis. They have to explain its presence in any intensity. Why is Sollecito's DNA there?

By its actions the prosecution apparently believes that the other three people are not related to the crime, yet they deposited their DNA by some unknown mechanism. If three can, why not a fourth?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

By its actions the prosecution apparently believes that the other three people are not related to the crime, yet they deposited their DNA by some unknown mechanism. If three can, why not a fourth?

Oh, so the other 3 were in fact at the same volume/mass of DNA material as Raffaele's?

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

Quadraginta writes:

Let's try one. Are you claiming that the police owned or had access to a Spheron-VR camera and related equipment which they used to record the Meredith Kercher murder site, and that you are personally in possession of copies of the data files from that photography?

Prove it.

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/spheron_sample.jpg

So you're friendsofamanda.org? Cool. Glad we got that sorted out.

Well, what are you holding back for? Link us up to the Spheron-VR data files for the crime scene. You're not gonna stop at a screen cap are you? That might lead one to question your bona fides.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Did the bra clasp move itself?

No.

Does Raffaele's DNA have magical properties that result in, apparently, all of the possible DNA traces from inside and outside of the room being culminated into one location which just so happens to be the bra clasp from the bra a murder victim was wearing while she was being murdered?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

LIS

Can you scan the email and post it, please?

Given the way you have treated me, absolutely not.

 

[Mr.D]

Mr. D,

Maybe someone can explain ...

Unless the explanation has something to do with women of different sizes swapping bras, I was merely attempting to shepherd the thread back on the track.

 

[stilicho]

By its actions the prosecution apparently believes that the other three people are not related to the crime, yet they deposited their DNA by some unknown mechanism. If three can, why not a fourth?

I thought you said that "unknown mechanism" is the only way that DNA deposits may be categorised:

"DNA testing cannot determine how biological material was deposited onto an item of evidence: whether by direct deposit, or by secondary transfer through an intermediary."

So the question isn't how Sollecito's DNA got there but why is it there in the first place? There could be 500 people's DNA on the bra clasp but that's not what we're addressing. Of all those 2, 5 or 500 people, why is Sollecito's there?

Just out of curiosity, how many bra clasps in Perugia on the evening of 01 NOV 2007 do you think had Sollecito's DNA on them? Maybe approaching it that way would get you to understand why your own methodology might lead you to a scientific explanation. Or this: How many bra clasps in your hometown have your DNA on them? Does that work better?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Given the way you have treated me, absolutely not.

Really? That's your response?

Because you got nailed to the wall given your inability to defend your position with evidence - you're not going to make it out like Stilicho is the bad guy for, well, ya know, wanting to see the evidence?

 

[quadraginta]

No.

Does Raffaele's DNA have magical properties that result in, apparently, all of the possible DNA traces from inside and outside of the room being culminated into one location which just so happens to be the bra clasp from the bra a murder victim was wearing while she was being murdered?

We don't need magic when we can count on hostile alien technology. Remember Clarke's Third Law.

Of course, Sturgeon's Second Law might apply.

 

[Amazer]

Many routes of deposition are possible, as the open letter implied.

Possible? Yes, i will give you that.

What you haven't done though is to show that contamination is more probable then Raffaelo having direct contact with the bra clasp.

 

[lane99]

You'll find many news reports from the past saying all sorts of things that aren't true or are incorrect. There was no blood 'inside' the purse. The articles are wrong. Primary sources should be the trial testimony, the Micheli Report and the Massei Report. Those sources render old newspaper stories obsolete.

And you'll find many news reports from the past saying all sorts of things that are true and correct.

If you've got a source that claims there was no blood inside the purse, show it. Your reputation precedes you. So your word alone counts for nothing.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Quadraginta writes:

Well, what are you holding back for?

I'm holding back on account of bandwidth and the sensitivity of some of the material. This is 2gb of data with individual files over 100mb. Is there anything in particular you want to see?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

working hypothesis

No.

Does Raffaele's DNA have magical properties that result in, apparently, all of the possible DNA traces from inside and outside of the room being culminated into one location which just so happens to be the bra clasp from the bra a murder victim was wearing while she was being murdered?

My working hypothesis is that DNA from RS got there the same way that three other people's DNA got there. How much of their DNA was found elsewhere in the flat?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

third time's the charm?

Oh, so the other 3 were in fact at the same volume/mass of DNA material as Raffaele's?

Why is this difference important and the difference between the mass of DNA from RS versus Mk unimportant? This is at least the third time I have asked.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

who moved the clasp

No.

Does Raffaele's DNA have magical properties that result in, apparently, all of the possible DNA traces from inside and outside of the room being culminated into one location which just so happens to be the bra clasp from the bra a murder victim was wearing while she was being murdered?

The person who moved the clasp may have transferred RS's DNA. RS's fingerprints were found on the door.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Really? That's your response?

Because you got nailed to the wall given your inability to defend your position with evidence - you're not going to make it out like Stilicho is the bad guy for, well, ya know, wanting to see the evidence?

I have offered numerous citations on DNA contamination. It has been your choice to ignore them in favor of how you feel DNA contamination should work. There is no evidence of DNA contamination that you would accept, because your mind is made up on this case.

 

[Amazer]

I have offered numerous citations on DNA contamination. It has been your choice to ignore them in favor of how you feel DNA contamination should work. There is no evidence of DNA contamination that you would accept, because your mind is made up on this case.

The problem is that you haven't actually offered any evidence regarding DNA contamination in this particular case. Whenever pressed you resort to tell us how difficult it is to pinpoint exactly where contamination occurred. That will just not do.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Really? That's your response?

Because you got nailed to the wall given your inability to defend your position with evidence - you're not going to make it out like Stilicho is the bad guy for, well, ya know, wanting to see the evidence?

If you were trying to paper over the fact that Stilicho is in effect calling me a liar, it did not work.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

I have offered numerous citations on DNA contamination. It has been your choice to ignore them in favor of how you feel DNA contamination should work. There is no evidence of DNA contamination that you would accept, because your mind is made up on this case.

No, there is evidence of DNA contamination that I would accept. HOWEVER, in this particular case, there is...well...no evidence of DNA contamination - just wishful thinking.

No one, other than Dan O and Kestrel, is claiming the bra is not Meredith's. Thus, we'd expect to see a large profile from Meredith. The other 3 profiles are likely to be her roommates, with whom she shared a cottage and a washing/drying machine. What we have no reason to expect is to find Raffaele's DNA in any sizeable amount. He did not wash his clothes in their washer/dryer (and even then, the amount of his DNA is inconsistent with the amount of the DNA residue from her flatmates who were indeed known to use the washer/dryer). He did not claim to play with her bra in an attempt to unravel the mystery of the clasp (why not use Amanda's? I'm sure she was more than willing to let him play with her bra). There is no evidence of Raffaele's presence inside the room other than on the bra clasp (and are you claiming the fingerprints contained DNA evidence in enough of a concentration to allow the bra clasp to be contaminated with 7x the DNA of her flatmates with whom the bra was much more likely to have contact?)

Again, the mind reels at the gymnastics one must play to simply assume contamination rather than a more rational explanation, given the other aspects/evidence, that Raffaele touched the clasp.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

If you were trying to paper over the fact that Stilicho is in effect calling me a liar, it did not work.

I must have missed where he did more than ask for the exact same thing you've asked for in this thread - evidence backing your claims.

Honestly, that's how debate works. You present evidence, that evidence is then countered by your opposition's evidence. If at any time one side fails to provide the requisite evidence to support one's position, well...that position is considered to be incorrect.

You have failed to provide evidence to back your claims - not just once, but many times over. As such, you have no legs to stand on. If you consider that the same as being a liar, then it is you yourself who has determined your status as a liar