Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[DOC]

Unbelievable. Yet 99.9% of babblical scholars all say none of the gospels were written by any of the mostly illiterate apostles.

Source?

 

[Akhenaten]

Unbelievable. Yet 99.9% of babblical scholars all say none of the gospels were written by any of the mostly illiterate apostles.

Source?

Source


Anything else I can do for ya?

 

[Akhenaten]

This thread has become my favorite.

Am I losing my mind?

Prolly. Follow these guys and they'll help you find it again.

Or not. I forget.

 

[laca]

Source


Anything else I can do for ya?

Awesome! Now we know!

 

[kmortis]

Source


Anything else I can do for ya?

Dude. That was painful.

Let me esplain....no, not enough time, let me sum up. I have a chest cold. I clicked da linky and started to laugh. Ever laugh with a chest cold? I got two giggles into it when I started coughing. Ow ow ow ow ow...

 

[Akhenaten]

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[DOC]

While some skeptics are wasting time talking about me, I'm finding new information. Below is an example.

Better still. The whole tale is myth. It never happened. The Jesus of history is just a myth...

Then who created the most moral and sublime teachings ever preached to man (at least according to Thomas Jefferson) -- lying fisherman?

We don’t know what exactly he was referring to. As you are aware, apart from the support of slavery, Jefferson found little in the bible credible.

Then why did he spend the time cutting out bible verses with a razor and pasting them in a 82 page book. With each page averaging about 11 verses per page. So that is a least 880 biblical verses he spent time cutting out. Not only that but he put the Greek, Latin, and French translation of each of those verses next to the English translation. He never did anything like this for any other person (including Plato and Aristotle). This shows just how unique Christ's teachings were for a man like Jefferson to take all this time and energy to do this. But for some reason Jefferson just had a mental block about miracles (As Geisler points out, if God exists miracles are possible) But the ironic thing is Jefferson had no problem inserting in his book some of the times Christ mentioned hell. He also mentions at least one verse with an angel in his book. And I"ve only just skimmed a few pages of the book to get this info.

But I sure many here are prepared to give your question a shot. You list the individual teachings and we will see if we can find out where they originated and who may have created them.

Ok, here are some of Christ's teachings that Jefferson put in his book on page 9. These verses are from Matthew chapter 5: 38, 47

38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Does the above verses sound like something lying fisherman would think up.

 

[Agatha]

There's that old argument from incredulity again.

 

[Toke]

Source


Anything else I can do for ya?

If it is on the net it, must be true.

 

[Mirrorglass]

Does the above verses sound like something lying fisherman would think up.

A drunk fisherman seems likely enough.

 

[laca]

Then why did he spend the time cutting out bible verses with a razor and pasting them in a 82 page book. With each page averaging about 11 verses per page. So that is a least 880 biblical verses he spent time cutting out. Not only that but he put the Greek, Latin, and French translation of each of those verses next to the English translation. He never did anything like this for any other person (including Plato and Aristotle). This shows just how unique Christ's teachings were for a man like Jefferson to take all this time and energy to do this.

Non-sequitur. And even if he found those "teachings" unique is in no way proof for either Christs' existence or the truthfulness of the NT writers.

But for some reason Jefferson just had a mental block about miracles (As Geisler points out, if God exists miracles are possible)

Bwahahaha. "If god exists miracles are possible"? Wow, this Geisler guy had to be a real genius to figure that one out. And if you would be an ass, you'd go 'EE-AW'.

<snippity>
Does the above verses sound like something lying fisherman would think up.

Certainly. Oh, and it's "do the above verses...".

FYI, lying does not always mean wrongful intentions.

 

[John Jones]

Does the above verses sound like something lying fisherman would think up.

Did anyone say that lying fishermen thought those verses up? I must have missed it if they did.

 

[Simon39759]

While some skeptics are wasting time talking about me, I'm finding new information. Below is an example.

Why not?
When people go and bring actual information, you pretend their post do not even exist...
Personal attack on you, at least, do not require efforts. There are also very justified by your tremendous intellectual dishonesty. And, they are just about the only thing that's bring an answer from you (remember, this place is an internet forum. It's designed for discussion; it is not an electronic reliigous tract).
If anything; I am surprised as how rare are the personal attacks on you thorough this thread. Can Kmortis, please, come forward and do his magic?

Then why did he spend the time cutting out bible verses with a razor and pasting them in a 82 page book. With each page averaging about 11 verses per page. So that is a least 880 biblical verses he spent time cutting out. Not only that but he put the Greek, Latin, and French translation of each of those verses next to the English translation. He never did anything like this for any other person (including Plato and Aristotle). This shows just how unique Christ's teachings were for a man like Jefferson to take all this time and energy to do this. But for some reason Jefferson just had a mental block about miracles (As Geisler points out, if God exists miracles are possible).

Or, maybe, Jefferson had a mental block in favour of Christianity (having be raised Christian, living in a very Christian environement and such) and attributed to the teaching of Jesus a value that they did not really deserve...

But the ironic thing is Jefferson had no problem inserting in his book some of the times Christ mentioned hell. He also mentions at least one verse with an angel in his book. And I"ve only just skimmed a few pages of the book to get this info.

That's... not what the word "ironic" means...


Anyway; let's check the mention of angels are in a passage from Matthew 13 38 to 49.

38: The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39: The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40: As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41: The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and all them which do iniquity;
42: And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43: Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
44: Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
45: Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
46: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
47: Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48: Which, when it was full, they drew it to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49: So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just

They a) are Jesus speaking not an attempt at a factual account. Jefferson tells us that Jesus believed in angels, not that angels existed.
b) in this account, the angels act purely as an agent of divine justice; they could, essentially, be considered a metaphor or a figure of speech.

Even I say that this kid is an angel, I am not making a religious statement, I am being metaphorical.

It's even more obvious for the us of "Hell".

Ok, here a*re some of Christ's teachings that Jefferson put in his book on page 9. These verses are from Matthew chapter 5: 38, 47
38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Does the above verses sound like something lying fisherman would think up.

Sure. Why not?
Can't fishermen be smart or generous in spirit?
Not that any of these is particularly high brow philosophy. Sure, these are nice (and I notice that you left out all the less commendable teaching attributed to Christ, such as his condoning of beating slaves or self indulgent selfishness[/url in John 12: 4 and 5) but none of these are particularly deep from a philosophical standpoint. Plato, who you probably never read, was writing 3 centuries and a half before Jesus and, yet, his philosophical views were much more complex.

 

[Akhenaten]

Did anyone say that lying lying fishermen thought those verses up? I must have missed it if they did.

Actually, DOC said it himself.

Then who created the most moral and sublime teachings ever preached to man (at least according to Thomas Jefferson) -- lying fisherman?

I guess since he fails so badly at refuting what we say he's forced into refutations of his own drivel.

And he reckons we're the ones wasting our time.

 

[Akhenaten]

While some skeptics are wasting time talking about me, I'm finding new information. Below is an example.

<snip>

No, actually you're just falling further and further behind the rest of us, and it's spoiling the whole thread.

Please try and keep up.

 

[Simon39759]

Did anyone say that lying lying fishermen thought those verses up? I must have missed it if they did.

Well, if Jesus was not real and Peter made the whole shebang, I suppose...
A couple of the apostles were supposed to have been fishermen...

Of course, tenants of a made up Jesus often consider Paul as the chief creator, Paul which is supposed to be well educated...

Which, actually, give me the idea for a repartee...
Maybe it's not Peter who invented the story, but Luke! He was a phycisian, I heard, and a highly regarded historian (so I've read), certainly, such a massive brainiac could make up such stories easilly...

 

[Simon39759]

(...)

This is an excellent example of the Dunning-Kruger effect (sorry no links yet, check it out though) if ever I saw one. He totally thinks he's demolishing everyone else in an intellectual debate and just can not see that nothing he has presented has an iota of logic or reason or evidence. As far as his idea that he is convincing these lurkers with what he says, I can tell you he is not.

Holly crap! YOu're absolutely right! That fits perfectly!

Can anyone tell me if the next 200+ pages offer anything good? I have realized that the "evidence" promised in the OP is not happening but I have learned a great deal from many of you scholars who have participated in the discussion.

Yes; a few nice scholarly answers (that pretty much all went ignored by the OP)

 

[John Jones]

Well, if Jesus was not real and Peter made the whole shebang, I suppose...
A couple of the apostles were supposed to have been fishermen...

I was alluding to the generally accepted conclusion that the apostles were not the authors of the gospels bearing their name.

 

[Simon39759]

Yes; there is that too...
But DOC rejects that conclusion, his point seems to be: "you can't absolutely prove they did not write it; hence they DID write it".
Come to think of it; that seems to be his favorite "argument".

 

[Akhenaten]

<stuff>


Ok, here are some of Christ's teachings that Jefferson put in his book on page 9. These verses are from Matthew chapter 5: 38, 47

38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Original Source,

Leviticus 24:19–21, Exodus 21:22–25 and Deuteronomy 19:21

39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Original Source

Lamentations 3:30

40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

Original Source

Oh bugger this. It's just the sermon on the mount.

It came from here:

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