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Merged Relativity+ / Farsight

50 points for claiming you have a revolutionary theory but giving no concrete testable predictions.
Not me.
How can you not give yourself these points? You have admitted that you have absolutely no mathematics behind your theory. This means that you have absolutely no predictions that we can test. You "predict" that there is no dark matter only in the sense that you dogmatically refuse to believe in it, but you cannot articulate why and you refuse to explain how somebody can use GR to do away with the need for dark matter.
 
ctamblyn said:
Why is the decay rate zero? Your model has a photon in a bound state, so there is an amplitude per unit time that it will tunnel out of the state and become a free particle. No?
No. Tunnelling per se doesn't apply any more. There are no barriers, and no billiard balls, everything is action, or stress/energy "kick" - spatial distortion, essentially Weyl gauge change as per the extension of a gravity wave. Tunnelling turns into one particular distortion slipping between two other distortions, like clumps of frogspawn squeezing past one another, but without surface. This is a "knot" of distortion, it can't slip outside of itself.

ctamblyn said:
P.S. I'd still like to see how Compton scattering fits into this model. At the small scale, your model needs a photon (the incoming one) to scatter off another photon (the "self-trapped" one). It seems to me that your model is going to have serious difficulties describing the observed characteristics of Compton scattering.
I didn't think it was an issue. A distortion distorts a distortion when they meet. The plane-polarized photon action is something like this ↕ going this way → at c, pushing those lattice lines up such that from the side it takes the lemon-like shape of a wavepacket, but without the interior waves. (see http://arxiv4.library.cornell.edu/abs/0803.2596?context=physics). The electron is a rotational version of the same. Vector subtraction is applied to the photon action, and vector addition is applied to the electron action, so the rotation isn't quite a circle any more, so the electron moves. Its photon path isn't a neat circle, it's cycloid if the circle is facing you, or helical if its edge-on.

ctamblyn said:
P.P.S. I've yet to see an explanation of how a photon interacts with itself to become "self-trapped" in the first place, and why only one wavelength of photon is capable of doing this (the one that happens to give the correct electron rest-energy).
You need something else to interact with first, such as a nucleus or another photon. And conservation of angular momentum applies, so you can't make an electron out of one photon alone, nor can you make just an electron using a photon and a nucleus.

You know I said the photon action is something like this ↕ ? If two photons are approaching one another head-on, then if photon 1 passes photon 2 at ten o'clock, it will rotate clockwise whilst rotating upward to "get over the hump" of photon 2. You now have two rotations. If they're severe enough such that the photon 1 action now encounters itself, it can continue. This is symmetrical with photon 2. If it continues and continues and continues, you've got an electron and a positron, and it isn't going to not continue. I really need an animated lattice model to show you this, and probably to show you the Compton effect too. But I don't have it, and as you can see, getting people interested is not easy.
 
If the laws of physics take anything like the form they've been understood to take for the last two centuries, it can't. Period. End of story.
<snipped for brevity>
Excellent analysis, and you're 100% correct. I would still have been interested in seeing at least an attempt at a mathematical justification from Farsight for his claim - perhaps show that with such-and-such a topology, with a fair wind, you can get something like a monopole field when field lines vanish down a conveniently-placed hole, or something (I'm making this up as I go - this isn't a serious proposal!). But as it stands, there's really nothing to get the teeth into here. Thus far it's just an idea, with neither a coherent mathematical foundation, nor quantitative contact points with experiment, and suffering with what appear to be rather serious consistency issues.
 
You refusal to define what you mean as "explain" so that I can answer the question you asked is noted.
LOL. You want me to explain explain. Powerful argument there Tubby!

The neutrino is stationary in its reference frame. This should be fairly obvious.
So's the photon. But in case you hadn't noticed, a reference frame doesn't actually exist. It's just an abstraction of measurement associated with motion.

Yes you are. You might not know that you're rejecting it because you clearly know almost nothing about physics...
Groan.

Tubbythin said:
But rest assured, there is absolutely no room in QED for electrons and protons to be made of photons.
There's room in pair production and annihilation.

Tubbythin said:
I'm sorry, but you're the one rejecting the evidence of pair production...
No comment!
 
This is increasingly strange. Farsight, what experimentally-known properties of the neutrino are you considering when you make this statement? Perhaps you have some of them wrong.
Motion. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino#Speed. They travel fast, at close to the speed of light. Note this: This measurement has been repeated using the MINOS detectors, which found the speed of 3 GeV neutrinos to be 1.000051(29) c. So if electron-positron annihilation starts with a more-or-less motionless electron and positron, and ends up with two 511keV photons departing at c, what do those more-or-less massless uncharged neutrinos more closely resemble?
 
No. Tunnelling per se doesn't apply any more. There are no barriers, and no billiard balls, everything is action, or stress/energy "kick" - spatial distortion, essentially Weyl gauge change as per the extension of a gravity wave. Tunnelling turns into one particular distortion slipping between two other distortions, like clumps of frogspawn squeezing past one another, but without surface. This is a "knot" of distortion, it can't slip outside of itself.
It is still a bound state though, and there is still the unbound state - a normal photon. Can you show there is no amplitude for one to make a transition from one to the other? You'd have to show that the bound state was an eigenstate of the system's Hamiltonian.
I didn't think it was an issue. A distortion distorts a distortion when they meet. The plane-polarized photon action is something like this ↕ going this way → at c, pushing those lattice lines up such that from the side it takes the lemon-like shape of a wavepacket, but without the interior waves. (see http://arxiv4.library.cornell.edu/abs/0803.2596?context=physics). The electron is a rotational version of the same. Vector subtraction is applied to the photon action, and vector addition is applied to the electron action, so the rotation isn't quite a circle any more, so the electron moves. Its photon path isn't a neat circle, it's cycloid if the circle is facing you, or helical if its edge-on.
Can you show that you get the right coupling between a free photon and a self-trapped one? Can you calculate scattering cross-sections? This is what you need to do to validate the model.
You need something else to interact with first, such as a nucleus or another photon. And conservation of angular momentum applies, so you can't make an electron out of one photon alone, nor can you make just an electron using a photon and a nucleus.
<snip>
On this point, I was hoping for a demonstration of how a self-trapped photon couples to itself to form a stable bound state. Photons don't directly interact with other photons - so what's the mechanism?
It seems to me that you need some pretty novel spatial topology to get something like the right spin, and to even have a hope of getting charge (even then there remain serious problems and further questions) but at the same time a 511 keV photon can't cause any signifiant spacetime distortion. I just don't see this happening with the laws of physics being anything like the ones we know and love.
 
In fact they are inconsistent with it being made of anything we know of - electrons are the lightest charged particle, and are therefore absolutely stable. They cannot decay into anything, because anything else with the same charge has a larger mass. The fact that they can annihilate with positrons or be produced in a pair with one is of course completely consistent with all this, and is perfectly well understood (in fact extraordinarily well understood).

Moreover, if the electron was "made" from other things (anything - whether we know of it or not), then excited states of these other things would also have to exist.

There have been extensive and exhaustive searches for an excited electron state. And the results have been negative.

Even if you want to talk about a single photon going around in a circle - looping on itself, with 2 pi phase difference from end-to-end - you would also have to have a state where a photon loops around with 4 pi phase difference - an excitation. Also, 6 pi, 8pi, .... What do these states correspond to?

Some other things Farsight should read:

pdg.lbl.gov/2009/listings/rpp2009-list-quark-lepton-compositeness.pdf

http://pdg.lbl.gov/2009/reviews/rpp2009-rev-searches-quark-lep-compositeness.pdf
 
I've been waiting for an excuse to try out the LaTeX tags, so here goes...
Maxwell's equations in a region of space with no charges:
[latex]
\begin{*align}
\nabla\cdot E &= 0 \\
\nabla\cdot B &= 0 \\
\nabla\times E &= -\partial B / \partial t \\
\nabla\times B &= \partial E / \partial t
\end{align*}
[/latex]
Notice the pleasing symmetry between E and B. Hypnotic, isn't it? Notice that, given any solution, we can generate another valid solution by swapping E and B around via a duality rotation (E, B) -> (B, -E). Since your model postulates that a suitably-confined e/m wave - a solution of the above equations - can give rise to an electric monopole field, it follows that we could obtain an equally valid solution which looks like a magnetic monopole. There's no way around it.
Check that against http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell's_equations, ct. You're missing the fact that it's an electromagnetic field. Your suitable confinement requires a region of space rotating free of the surrounding space, like a ball-bearing in a well-oiled socket. Space isn't like that. It has its torsion. An action cannot exhibit a linear momentum without affecting the surrounding space, and it cannot exhibit angular momentum without affecting the surrounding space. You cannot rotate a portion of it free of the surounding space. That's what you need for a magnetic monopole, and you just can't do it.
 
Wrong. All its saying is that the quantum world behaves differently to the classical world...
That's enough mysticism from you, Tubby. If you want to stick with the comforting idea that "the quantum world" surpasseth all human understanding, let's just agree to differ. You swallow the moonshine, I'll do the physics.
 
Motion. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino#Speed. They travel fast, at close to the speed of light. Note this: This measurement has been repeated using the MINOS detectors, which found the speed of 3 GeV neutrinos to be 1.000051(29) c. So if electron-positron annihilation starts with a more-or-less motionless electron and positron, and ends up with two 511keV photons departing at c, what do those more-or-less massless uncharged neutrinos more closely resemble?

Farsight, you sound like you're in need of an elementary relativity course. The speed of a 3GeV neutrino is very high because 3 GeV is a lot of kinetic energy. Similarly, in the LEP accelerator at CERN, their 100 GeV electrons had speeds of 99.999999998% the speed of light because 100 GeV is a lot of kinetic energy compared to the rest mass.

The speed of a few-eV neutrino is similar to the speed of a few x 10 MeV electron. (give or take depending on the neutrino mass, which has a large experimental uncertainty at present.)

The speed of an 0.01 eV-kinetic-energy neutrino---a typical tritium glow-stick or watch face will emit a handful of these per year---is low, just like the speed of a few-keV-kinetic-energy electron.

The kinematics are exactly the same. When a neutrino (or electron) has E >> M it goes very fast, when it has E > M it goes sort of fast; when it has E = M it is at rest.
 
The fine structure constant has nothing whatsoever to do with the strong force.
Wanna bet? See http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/forces/couple.html or
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A26384385

"So why is α so fundamentally important? Looking at how it is derived gives us some clues. α is a coupling constant – it denotes the relative strength of the electromagnetic interaction between two charged point particles, such as electrons, compared to the other three fundamental forces. In contrast, the coupling constants for the strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force and gravity are 1, 10-6 and 10-39 respectively.

LOL! Do the research munchkin!

I suspect you don't know enough about the Standard Model to understand how deeply your theory disagrees with it. Remember, the Standard Model tells us exactly how photons interact with each other and with themselves (loop diagrams and whatnot) and a "self-trapped photon goes in a twisted circle and looks like a 511 keV charged fermion" is unambiguously not compatible with the Standard Model.
Well you obviously don't know much. Stop wasting my time and let the people who know something about physics have a sensible conversation. What are you, a high school physics teacher? Strewth, no wonder physics is going to the dogs.
 
Did that. There's nothing wrong with what I wrote - I've written the equations for the situation where the charge and current density are zero, and I've used natural units. Or have I missed something?
You're missing the fact that it's an electromagnetic field.
Goodness me, no. I've chosen to write the equations with E and B shown explicitly, as it's easier to follow the argument. If you'd prefer me to write it in terms of the e/m tensor field, fine - but it won't change the actual physical result at all. It's mathematically equivalent.
Your suitable confinement requires a region of space rotating free of the surrounding space, like a ball-bearing in a well-oiled socket. Space isn't like that. It has its torsion. An action cannot exhibit a linear momentum without affecting the surrounding space, and it cannot exhibit angular momentum without affecting the surrounding space. You cannot rotate a portion of it free of the surounding space. That's what you need for a magnetic monopole, and you just can't do it.
Your perhaps missing the point that in the absence of charged particles, Maxwell's equations possess a kind of symmetry between E and B. For every valid e/m wave solution (E(x,t), B(x,t)), there exists another equally valid, equally physically possible solution (B(x,t), -E(x,t)). Thus, wave solutions which look like electric monopoles are possible if and only if there also exist wave solutions which look like magnetic monopoles.
 
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"So why is α so fundamentally important? Looking at how it is derived gives us some clues. α is a coupling constant – it denotes the relative strength of the electromagnetic interaction between two charged point particles, such as electrons, compared to the other three fundamental forces. In contrast, the coupling constants for the strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force and gravity are 1, 10-6 and 10-39 respectively.

Sorry, you've misinterpreted that. The EM fine-structure constant is 1/137. That tells you the strength of E&M all by itself.

Another constant, alpha_s, gives the value of the strong coupling constant. It does that all by itself. The value runs to large values logarithmically at low energies---at the Q=100 GeV it's about 0.1, at Q=3 GeV it's about 0.3, so we commonly say that at low energies---the sort of MeV-scale energies we care about for hadron structure---it's in the ballpark of 1.0.

If you want to compare the strengths of the EM and strong interactions, you can compare the coupling constants. But 1/137 does NOT tell you anything about the strong interaction.
 
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Begging your pardon, but the fine structure constant is given by [latex]$\alpha = e^2 / \hbar c$[/latex]. It's a dimensionless measure of the strength of e/m interactions, and the strong force doesn't come into it.
See above. It gives you the relative strength of the electromagnetic interaction as opposed to the strong interaction. This is not coincidence. By the way, I prefer to keep permittivity in the expression. Remember I said it's the "twistability" of space? Where do you think the strong force goes after low-energy proton/antoproton annihilation? The typical product is two neutral pions and shortly thereafter two photons. What keeps the photon action from dispersing? What keeps an electron in one piece? What stops the universe from expanding like a gas and gives rise to the vacuum catastrophe? The strong force, and it's the strength of space. It changes. See http://arxiv.org/abs/0912.2678. That's New Physics at Low Accelerations (MOND): an Alternative to Dark Matter by Mordehai Milgrom. I don't think he's got it quite right, but I do think he's barking up the right tree. Now look at page 5 and pay attention to this:

"We see that the modification of GR entailed by MOND does not enter here by modifying the ‘elasticity’ of spacetime (except perhaps its strength), as is done in f (R) theories and the like."

Also, do you have a link to an experiment which shows this gravity-dependence of the ratio of the strength of the strong force to the strength of the e/m force? I'd find that very interesting.
Sorry, no. Look at the GPS clock adjustment, it's smaller than the accuracy of the quantum hall measurement. But see http://www.sstd.rl.ac.uk/stereo-soho/announcements.html and http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/10jun_solarprobe.htm and have a search around. See what you can find.
 
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Wanna bet? See http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/forces/couple.html or
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A26384385

"So why is α so fundamentally important? Looking at how it is derived gives us some clues. α is a coupling constant – it denotes the relative strength of the electromagnetic interaction between two charged point particles, such as electrons, compared to the other three fundamental forces. In contrast, the coupling constants for the strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force and gravity are 1, 10-6 and 10-39 respectively.

LOL! Do the research munchkin!

Your first link doesn't say that. Your second one is the BBC, and it's wrong - or at best poorly worded, and your interpretation of it is wrong. As ben says, alpha is a dimensionless constant the determines the strength of EM interactions all by themselves. Obviously you can compare it to the strength of other forces, but you don't need to.

Well you obviously don't know much. Stop wasting my time and let the people who know something about physics have a sensible conversation. What are you, a high school physics teacher? Strewth, no wonder physics is going to the dogs.

It's a bad idea to shoot yourself in the foot, particularly after you've put it in your mouth. ben m is a professor of physics at a major university and does research in particle physics.
 
That's enough mysticism from you, Tubby. If you want to stick with the comforting idea that "the quantum world" surpasseth all human understanding, let's just agree to differ. You swallow the moonshine,
Pathetic. You have to put words in to my mouth that I didn't even remotely say.

I'll do the physics.
Well I've yet to see you do any so far. So I'm pretty pessimistic about that possibility.
 
No. Tunnelling per se doesn't apply any more.

So to make your theory work we must abandon quantum mechanics as well as electromagnetism, the standard model of particle physics, and general relativity. All based on the incoherent word salad of a megalomaniacal internet crank that can't make any predictions, can't do math, and doesn't understand basic physics.

Good luck with that, "Farsight".
 
LOL. You want me to explain explain. Powerful argument there Tubby!
Seems reasonable to me. Since your definition differs from pretty much all others in science I'd think.

So's the photon. But in case you hadn't noticed, a reference frame doesn't actually exist. It's just an abstraction of measurement associated with motion.
The photon doesn't have a meaningful rest frame.

Well, you don't.

There's room in pair production and annihilation.
No there isn't. And even if there was it would still be a catastrophic failure because it your nonsense ramblings are inconsistent with everything else.

No comment!
Don't comment, doesn't make you any less wrong.
 
That is right. And we can do this at rest wrt the clock and see that the one second remains as one second. Thus the motion of the light has no effect. That is it.
It's called time dilation. You define your time using local motion, and you define your second using the motion of light as you see it. You count 9,192,631,770 microwave peaks going past you, and if that light goes slower your second is bigger. That's the scientific fact.

If we move the clock then there are all sorts of effects to take in account and when we do that we also see that one second remains as one second.
One second remains as one second, but it isn't the same as it was.

And of course the postulate that the speed of light is a constant is needed for special relativity to work and it does -Experimental Basis of Relativity.
Special relativity works, but don't trust Baez. This is what the Baez website says about the speed of light. And guess what? It's wrong. You know it's wrong because the article contradicts itself saying "This interpretation is perfectly valid and makes good physical sense" then 5 paragraphs later says "it does not even make any sense to say that it varies." Garbage.

Of course you could postulate that the speed of light is not a constant. In that case you have to state how it varies, e.g. that a specific transformation between coordinates is needed (e.g. the Lorentz transformation). In that case you get the same theory from a more complex set of postulates.
Look at the bottom of page 150 of The Foundation of The general Theory of relativity where Einstein says "the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light in vacuo must be modified.". Or look at section 22 of Einstein's 1916 book Relativity: The Special and General Theory, and what you see is this:

"In the second place our result shows that, according to the general theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in the special theory of relativity and to which we have already frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation of light varies with position".

That principle, that assumption, was the postulate: the constancy of the speed of light. Einstein was German, he didn't speak English in 1916 when he wrote this stuff. The word he used wasn't velocity, it was geschwindigkeit, which means both velocity and speed. There's only the one word in German. This and the context tells us that when he approved the translation, he was talking about speed, like the Baez article says. He was talking about speed because even something as simple as a mirror changes the velocity of a beam of light. This was a popular science book. The word velocity here was employed in the common usage, as in "high velocity bullet". Claiming that he was talking about a vector-quantity velocity reduces this paragraph to a ridiculous tautology. He would have been saying light curves because it changes direction! His meaning is obvious, it’s clear as a crystal bell. Read the original and there it is in black and white from the man himself: die Ausbreitungsgeschwindigkeit des Lichtes mit dem Orte variiert. Translate it yourself. Find a friend or use google. It's accurate:

http://translate.google.com/#de|en|die Ausbreitungsgeschwindigkeit des Lichtes mit dem Orte variiert

Then you can wish it away and be a troll like KK who dismisses Einstein, and denies the bleeding obvious because it challenges his faith.

That leads so a question for you which I will put into another post.
No problem. Pay attention to what I said earlier about the photon being a form of alternating current. And think about what I said about permittivity and permeability. Think for yourself, don't just parrot what you've been taught.

Who cares "why" it happens. What science is interested in in modeling how the universe presents itself to us. How it happens is explained by relativity.
I care. And in case you hasn't noticed, this is relativity+, and I'm with Einstein.

Bedtime.
 
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