Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[zooterkin]

But when the physician and gospel writer Luke wrote the parts of his works dealing with history, Sir William M. Ramsay called him one of the world's great historians.

"When"? Was Ramsay around then?

It is only a supernatural bias that keeps some from accepting the other supernatural information this great historian wrote about.

"Only supernatural bias"? Well, I suppose that's one way of describing thinking rationally. I'm with Jefferson on that one.

And as I have said, it doesn't even make sense for Christianity to be in existence to the extant it is without the Resurrection being true (since the Resurrection is the main focal point of Christianity). So the historical fact that it is in existence to the extant it is, is some historical evidence for the truth of the resurrection.

And it doesn't make sense for Buddhism to be in existence without reincarnation being true?

 

[paximperium]

Construction Occupation Safety and Health
Deaths and Injuries Involving Escalators and Elevators
Deaths(none-work/repair related) 1997-2006 in the United States
Total of 56 elevator and 24 escalator deaths(8.8deaths/year)
http://www.elcosh.org/en/document/4...-of-the-center-to-protect-workers-rights.html

Death by lightning strikes in the United States: 58deaths/year
http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/overview.htm

What faith?

 

[Toke]

Yes, there is, but people still get injured in elevator accidents, and people still get injured and killed in plane accidents in spite of statistical evidence for their safety. That is why you need faith whenever you use them -- faith they will work. So skeptics probably exhibit faith every day without realizing it.

DOC,
You really don't understand statistics do you?

The evidence for safety simply show how often people die or get injured by their use. (It is not very often, otherwise if would have been called statistical evidence for their dangerousness not safety.)
in spite of statistical evidence for their safety
This part is meaningless, you are saying that people are getting killed in spite of evidence that people are get killed in very small numbers.

 

[paximperium]

DOC,
You really don't understand statistics do you?

The evidence for safety simply show how often people die or get injured by their use. (It is not very often, otherwise if would have been called statistical evidence for their dangerousness not safety.)
in spite of statistical evidence for their safety
This part is meaningless, you are saying that people are getting killed in spite of evidence that people are get killed in very small numbers.

Looking at the statistics, DOC is more likely to be killed by god hitting him with lightning than by him getting killed getting on an elevator.

I wonder how he has the faith to leave his Faraday cage everyday?

 

[Toke]

Looking at the statistics, DOC is more likely to be killed by god hitting him with lightning than by him getting killed getting on an elevator.

I wonder how he has the faith to leave his Faraday cage everyday?

Blind faith.
Although I thought it refered to the believer, not the god or its marksmanship.

 

[carlitos]

Similar note, relevant to certain aspects of this thread:

An estimated 12 - 27 million people are caught in one or another form of slavery. Between 600,000 and 800,000 are trafficked internationally, with as many as 17,500 people trafficked into the United States. Nearly three out of every four victims are women. Half of modern-day slaves are children.

link

Of the 45,000 to 50,000 that are brought to the U.S., 30,000 come from Asia, 10,000 from Latin America and 5,000 from other regions e.g., the former Soviet Union. The primary Asian source countries to the U.S. are China, Thailand and Vietnam. Although trafficking into the U.S. and Europe has gained a lot of attention in recent years, anti-trafficking advocates in Asia have been addressing these issues on the continent for decades.

link

Eighty-six percent (N=l9) of U.S. women and 53 percent (N=8) of international women reported being physically abused by their pimps and traffickers while in the sex industry.

huge pdf link

So tens of thousands of slaves are beaten in the US today. Literally. What does the bible say about this practice again?

 

[Toke]

What does the bible say about this practice again?

Something about sticking an aul in their ear to mark them as slaves?

 

[Lothian]

But when the physician and gospel writer Luke wrote the parts of his works dealing with history, Sir William M. Ramsay called him one of the world's great historians. It is only a supernatural bias that keeps some from accepting the other supernatural information this great historian wrote about.

Doc, Why do you continuously misrepresent the words of Ramsay? You ask whether it is a supernatural bias that stops us believing the supernatural stories of someone called a great historian.

Let us look once again at what Ramsay said about Luke
"You may press the words of Luke in a degree far beyond any other historian's, and they stand the keenest scrutiny and the hardest treatment, provided always that the critic knows the subject and does not go beyond the limits of science and of justice"

So Ramsay said Luke is only a great historian if you ignore the supernatural parts which go beyond the knowledge of science.

It is exceedingly dishonest of you to try to suggest that Ramsay believed there was any evidence for the supernatural.

Is it the 'great historian' Sir Williams Ramsay's 'supernatural bias' which causes him to conclude that there is not a scrap of evidence for the resurrection or any other supernatural event in the bible and that those parts can only be found through faith?

And as I have said, it doesn't even make sense for Christianity to be in existence to the extant it is without the Resurrection being true (since the Resurrection is the main focal point of Christianity). So the historical fact that it is in existence to the extant it is, is some historical evidence for the truth of the resurrection.

Stop being stupid. Are you really suggesting the rapid rise of Scientology is evidence of Xenu?
There is not a scrap of evidence for the resurrection. Lame arguments are not evidence.

 

[carlitos]

Sex slavery:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11)

Same chapter, a bit later, beating of slaves:

20 "When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money. 22

New Testament, words of Jesus as quoted by the great historian Luke, chapter 47:

And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and wise steward, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing. 44 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 45 But if that servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed in coming,' and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the unfaithful. 47 And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. 48 But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating.

 

[Hokulele]

I think it hurts the credibility of some skeptics to say post 11054 is Zero evidence.

That's just your opinion. Do you have any evidence that it hurts their credibility?

 

[Outback Jack]

Yes, there is, but people still get injured in elevator accidents, and people still get injured and killed in plane accidents in spite of statistical evidence for their safety. That is why you need faith whenever you use them -- faith they will work. So skeptics probably exhibit faith every day without realizing it.

I'm an airline pilot and an atheist, DOC, and I've two things to say about this:

1) Nothing, not even faith, is going to stop you from being turned into a fine red mist if you ram into the ground at 500 m.p.h.

2) Your pilot has more to do with your safety on an aircraft than any deity. Maybe you should put your faith in the pilot instead.


P.S. Are you one of those people who applauds when you land safely? Is a safe landing really that big of a surprise?

 

[joobz]

Yes, there is, but people still get injured in elevator accidents, and people still get injured and killed in plane accidents in spite of statistical evidence for their safety. That is why you need faith whenever you use them -- faith they will work. So skeptics probably exhibit faith every day without realizing it.

And post 11054 is not Zero evidence in spite of yours, Joobz' and Hok's opinion. I think it hurts the credibility of some skeptics to say post 11054 is Zero evidence. I might understand you saying, well it is some evidence, but it is not enough for me to believe. But to say it is zero evidence shows me some skeptics have a bias in spite of the facts, and are afraid to admit any evidence at all.

DOC, you've convinced me. The God of elevator's is true and powerful. The shear number of people who ride elevators daily under the faith the the elevator god protects them is proof. The god of the bible is nothing but a weak figment in comparison.

I'm converted!

 

[Cactus Wren]

Joobz you're hopeless.

Another no information post.

 

[Cactus Wren]

So, if I said:
"And the bible also says that it's ok to beat bond-servants. Yeah for the bible!!!"

That would make it acceptable?

How about if you said:
"And the bible also says that it's ok to beat bond-servants that you've bought and paid for. Yeah for the bible!!!"
how would that be?

 

[amb]

SInce DOC came back, does that mean we have to stop writing "poetry"?

Here you have it ladies and gentlemen. The proof you so desperately seek.
I wished DOC would hurry up and post because let's face it, your poetry stinks.
Lo and behold, he posts!!

 

[joobz]

Here you have it ladies and gentlemen. The proof you so desperately seek.
I wished DOC would hurry up and post because let's face it, your poetry stinks.
Lo and behold, he posts!!

Moon
Oh lonely moon.
I see you looking down upon me, moon.
nothing but the blackness of the night and my soul to stop the cold.
You see, moon, the darkness that is that which is around.
Moon, you can't stop what i will do.
You, are alone moon,
Moon.





Sorry, we haven't had a goth poem entry yet.

 

[Akhenaten]

But when the physician and gospel writer Luke wrote the parts of his works dealing with history, Sir William M. Ramsay called him one of the world's great historians.

Ramsay, had he said such a thing in earnest, was completely wrong. Have you learned nothing at all from this thread? Perhaps you need to go back and read it again, properly.

It is only a supernatural bias that keeps some from accepting the other supernatural information this great historian wrote about.

The only thing supernatural here is your ability to write such convoluted garbage.

Magical thinking is being supressed by magical thinking? You've lost it, DOC.

And as I have said, it doesn't even make sense for Christianity to be in existence to the extant it is without the Resurrection being true (since the Resurrection is the main focal point of Christianity). So the historical fact that it is in existence to the extant it is, is some historical evidence for the truth of the resurrection.

 

[X]

[responding to a post on the lack of evidence for the resurrection]

But when the physician and gospel writer Luke wrote the parts of his works dealing with history, Sir William M. Ramsay called him one of the world's great historians. It is only a supernatural bias that keeps some from accepting the other supernatural information this great historian wrote about.

LIAR!!!

You know perfectly well (or should, it has been explained to you enough times and you've included it in enough of yours posts) that Ramsay made it very clear that the statement did not apply to supernatural, miraculous, or otherwise fantastical events.

And as I have said, it doesn't even make sense for Christianity to be in existence to the extant it is without the Resurrection being true (since the Resurrection is the main focal point of Christianity). So the historical fact that it is in existence to the extant it is, is some historical evidence for the truth of the resurrection.

Do you seriously expect us to buy this rubbish, DOC?

Permit me to show you why we laugh at it:

And as I have said, it doesn't even make sense for Islam to be in existence to the extant it is without the Buraq being true (since the Night Journey is one of the main focal points of Islam). So the historical fact that it is in existence to the extant it is, is some historical evidence for the truth of the Buraq.

And as I have said, it doesn't even make sense for Judaism to be in existence to the extant it is without the Noachian Flood being true (since the Flood is one of the main focal points of Judaism). So the historical fact that it is in existence to the extant it is, is some historical evidence for the truth of the Flood.

And as I have said, it doesn't even make sense for Hinduism to be in existence to the extant it is without the Devas being true (since the Devas are one of the most important beliefs of Hinduism). So the historical fact that it is in existence to the extant it is, is some historical evidence for the truth of the Devas.

And as I have said, it doesn't even make sense for Sikhism to be in existence to the extant it is without reincarnation being true (since reincarnation is part of the most fundamental tenet of Hinduism). So the historical fact that it is in existence to the extant it is, is some historical evidence for the truth of the reincarnation.​

Shall I go on, or do you get the picture?

I thought you claimed to have taken a course in logic? This is so utterly, utterly nonsensical I suspect that the logic course was taught by a tutor who spoke only one language, and that was one which you do not speak.

I'm pretty sure I said something very similar to this a few pages back...

 

[Akhenaten]

Because I wasn't there when Christ rose from the dead.

Tom Bombadil, the world's oldest man, was definitely around at the time and yet he makes no mention of this Christ fellow. Was he a barrow wight?

There are songs to put these things to rest. you know. You should learn them.

But there is historical evidence that He did.

Who? Tom? Ooh my wordy lordy yes. It's all been written down very carefully.

And I don't know for sure when I get in an elevator on the 20th floor that it is going to give me a safe ride but I have faith it will, and I also have some evidence it will.

Regardless of your faith, the lift (I assume this is what you mean by 'elevator', which as we all know is an Archimedian screw-operated device for moving harvested grain) will still continue to operate. Your sky fairy, however, is sustained only by faith, without which it reverts to the smoke and mirrors that are its true nature.

Perhaps if there was as much evidence for Jeebus as there is for lifts, more of us would share your faith.

How's that going, by the way? I'm afraid I was distracted by the most excellent poetry. Do you like poetry, DOC?

 

[Akhenaten]

He has seen the evidence of 9 bible translations that use the word servant and not slave but he won't accept it, and thus is hopeless.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored . . .​

Soz. It just seemed to fit with the poetry thing that was happening.