Thank you very much, Wolf. You have my respect and your counterpoint is invaluable. The issues and questions you post are very good. The great thing is that I can put those questions to Bob personally.
Thanks, I appreciate it. I'm glad you can, I know you asked for people to ask questions before you talked to him, I saw the "Roger holding camera on horse" question asked, and as far as that I didn't really think of the other stuff as prominently until after you interviewed him and he gave another view of the costume post Morris recreation.
The film is a fake. I have never been more certain of that in my life. I grew up looking at it endlessly, thinking it was a real Bigfoot, and now I know better. I know the PGF is a hoax like I know the sun wiil rise tomorrow. Wolf, I would appreciate if you could address post #527 with the questions that Sweaty is to afraid to answer. I will go ahead and address your points in a post after this one, but first let me put out a few things to you.
Oh God, you're going to make me read a post addressed to Sweaty? Where's the puking smiley? lol ok, well the whole Bob H lives right by Gimlin thing is fact and long established, the film footage of Bob H in Patterson's movie is even more damning, but the questions on why if Bob H was lying did he and Gimlin talk to each other at a horse show and not talk about Bob H's claims pretty much is Bob H's word, could have happened or may not have been exactly as Bob H claimed. They could be avoiding talking about it, it may actually still bother Gimlin, but then again it may be something else entirely I'll talk about towards the end of this post that will also address the who court case against Bob H from Gimlin and Patterson.
If the PGF were made now, Bigfoot enthusiasts would eat Roger Patterson alive. The BFF would be his roasting pit and would reek of the smell of charred human flesh. Wolf, did you know Roger claimed to John Green when John visited him in February 1967 the year after he released his book and eight months before his film was revealed to the world to be the inventor of the little plastic thingy that keeps bread bags closed? That's not a joke. Who does that remind you of? A guy with an alleged Bigfoot on film claiming the invention of widely used items. Can you say Creekfreek? Here's some of the blood in the water that would trigger the feeding frenzy on Roger...
I'm not so sure, I've gotten into tons of huge time suck arguments over much lesser valued evidence that to this day believers love to cling to.
The whole bread clip thing was second hand from Green, Patterson did make the pop-lock thing and it was from the bread clips he got the idea, after explaining this to Green, Green might have misunderstood.
- What's that? You mailed a film Friday evening, October 20th, 1967 from Eureka to Yakima by registered airmail to arrive at Yakima Saturday, October 21st and be taken by the guy funding you to Seatte to be developed and then shown at his house back in Yakima on Sunday afternoon? Did you know that there were no airports in Eureka or Arcata in 1967? Maybe a chartered aircraft, you say? Did you know that of the five charter pilots living in the area in 1967, Peter Byrne spoke with four (fifth deceased) and all of their log books showed heavy rain and strong winds for October 20th, 1967. Neither did any of the logs show any deliveries at all for that day in which the pilots would have flown only under extreme emergency conditions.
I didn't know about the no airport in Arcata thing, I thought a few people told me they did have an airport at the time, and where did the charter pilots in the area fly out of>
Of course, if they gave the film to Bob Heironimus to mail by U.S. Postal Service from Eureka well before that date, as Bob claimed he did, then, well, problem solved. Bob did say he was there only overnight and that he had come down on either a Monday or a Wednesday of either September or October and that it was hot. Bob also told me that Roger and Bob only had his horse, Chico, for eight days.
Yeah the timeline always bugged me.
- Sweaty often has sarcastically stated that Roger Patterson was a lucky guy because of certain features on Patty he thinks that are consistent with a real animal. BFF Bigfoot enthusiasts would have a field day with the luck Patterson had if he were around now. You make a book about Bigfoot one year in which you steal some guys art, slap your name on it, and prominently showcase an encounter that matches nearly verbatim your description of of the encounter you film the very next years?
Not to mention that actual sketches he did do that have those features he emphasized he would need to add to a human to make Patty...
I used to think that astronomical luck element was one of the most glaring indicators of a hoax by Patterson. Now I know there is much, much worse. It seems Roger Patterson was a literal Babe Ruth. Let me explain. The PGF started out as supposed to be a three-way deal with Al DeAtley, the money man funding Roger, and Patterson and Gimlin sharing the profits. Roger screws Gimlin and him and DeAtley go on to make serious money. Years later Bigfoot legendaries John Green and Peter Byrne at separate times individually try to talk to DeAtley. In 1998 John Green tried to find out from DeAtley where the film was processed. DeAtley didn't want to talk to Green. Wouldn't tell him anything. Byrne tries the same thing. He has a big problem with the way the film was handled after being shot and traveled up and down the west coast investigating it. In his words about trying to ask DeAtley how the film was processed...
"I did. I talked to him two or three times on the film. I tried to see him but he wouldn't see me. He doesn't want to talk about it. It's extremely difficult to get him to talk."
But Byrne was dogged and finally did manage to get DeAtley on the phone...
"He said to me, 'It's fake. I know it's fake' I said 'How do you know it's fake?' He said, 'Listen. He (Patterson) told us all he was going down there and find the Bigfoot and shoot some footage and come back. He did. He went down there. That's just goddamn luck, or something. That doesn't happen in real life, you know.' Ivan marx did the same thing. He was living in Northern California, and he told people he was going to northern Washington and find a Bigfoot, get footage, and come back and sellit and make lots of money. he did exactly the same thing. Then, at the same time, almost in the same breath, DeAtley said, 'But, don't quote me on that with people here. This is the family here (in Yakima).' DeAtley is married to Roger's sister. DeAtley said, 'They all believe Roger. They all believed in his integrity. They all believe that film is real.I'm the outsider here.' he had a few very derogatory things to say about Roger. My guess is he really didn't like him."
Of course Roger told DeAtley he was going to film a Bigfoot at Bluff Creek. DeAtley was the money. He had to make the money man excited. And then he comes back with just what he said he would. Sweet Zombie Jesus, somebody give that man a baseball bat. He just pointed out to center field. That is just no reality at all. Seriously, if that happened now, Patterson would be served on a platter with an apple in his mouth at the BFF.
I was disappointed with Long's treatment of DeAtley, I felt he treated him with kids gloves because of DeAtley's prominence and wealth. I felt he didn't ask him the tough questions or probe enough into DeAtley's role from the people who knew him, and worked for him. Let's just say that those who knew him also know he wasn't the money man known today and how he got that money plays a role.
- If Roger was alive now and shot the PGF now, what would the BFF Bigfoot enthusiasts make of the fact that he was arrested for grand larceny? Harold Mattson was the owner of Sheppard's Camera Shop in Yakima where Patterson rented the 16mm camera. Peter Byrne spoke with Harold mattson about the charges he brought against Patterson. In Byrnes own words...
"He confirmed that Patterson rented the camera in May 1967 and never paid the rental fees to where in November they went out to his house after sending him several warnings and a registered letter. The Yakima County Sherrif's Department went out and arrested him and hauled him in."
I've seen apologist footers hum that away as simply being forgetful. I don't think they'd be so quick to do that if it was now and they knew Patterson was obviously dodging his rental fees. And what would BFF proponents do if Patterson was around now and they knew he signed a bad check for $300 or $400 worth of film? And what would they do with Patterson now if they knew he had swindled a woman for a very large sum of money. You will remember the money Patterson borrowed from Vilma Radford...
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/896148b94575567b8.jpg[/qimg]
Here are some letters Vilma sent Roger when Roger refused to pay he back the money she had given him...
De. 29, 1967
Since you have ignored us regarding money already six months past due, our patience has worn thin.
Unless we receive money immediately and an accounting of receipts, for our percentage of BIG FOOT, we will be forced to take legal action.
Another from January 10th, 1968...
You have numerous notices for collection of note re BIG FOOT, leaving us no alternative but to turn this over for collection by attachment of magazine rights, etc. Unless money is received by January 17th, we will proceed to do so.
She did. She sued Roger. She hired attorney Bill McArdle to handle her case, who had alread beeen approached by a number of people wanting to take legal action after being swindled by Patterson.
I think Roger Patterson had attempted the same thing now that he had in 1967, he would have been taken down to Chinatown quicker than you can say "Georgia Boyz."
All great things to indicate a shady character on Patterson's part. Heck there's even more if one looks deep enough. All indications of a hoax being played, especially compared to Georgia boys and Gimlin and the whole native costume/later impersonator thing. But unfortunately it doesn't necessarily mean Bob H was the guy in the suit.
So now I'll talk about Gimlin and his treatment of Bob H, as well as court cases brought against Bob H from Gimlin and Patricia Patterson.
So let's say this film is a hoax. Patterson knows it, Gimlin knows it, DeAtley knows it.
Now let's say Bob H was in the movie asa cowboy, was promised money that he never got, made a suit to hoax on the roadside for kicks, and felt Roger owed him. Sees the Romney thing, and thinks if he claimed to be in the suit when Romney denied it he could be on TV and make some money. So he lies.
Now let's say Gimlin and Patterson want to sue this guy. They talk to their lawyer and realize that Bob H was in Patterson's movie, his horse was there, Long's book came out characterizing Patterson as a crook, and somehow in this case they are going to have review this film and try to show the film is the real deal, which they know it's not, or that Bob H wasn't in it, in which case their only alibi is the REAL person in the suit. Pffffffft, there goes the case, there goes the money maker, and public opinion? Whew....
Ok, now let's be fair and say the film is the real deal. Same thing, take it to court and you have to address the film's validity, lawyers don't buy it, judge won't buy it, jury won't buy it, gets torn to shreds and how much money do you want to waste on it? DeAtley's washed his hands of it, he isn't pitching in.
Anyways, as I said, I can see the film as a hoax. I just have a really hard time with Bob H's story.
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