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UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

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I wonder why Rramjet removed the Villas Boas close encounter of the sexual kind from his best cases list.
Short platinum blonde alien with red armpit and pubic hairs comes from beyond the borders of what we call nature (whatever that means) to fornicate a Brazilian red neck- with help of the ship's crew.
Outstanding example of how silly UFOlogy can get.
Here some more best cases of UFOlogical stupidity:
The UMMO case
The lead masks case
Meier
Nordic aliens
Alien implants
Nazi flying saucers
Google at your own risk.

Skeptics don't need to ridicule UFOlogy; UFOlogists excel on doing that. Especially when they try to pose as scientists.
 
I forgot to pop by for an update before that last thread before went tits up.
Was there any evidence? Is it safe to assume i wont get abducted when I go fishing with the Dog tomorow?
(Il be using Calamari squid as bait)
 
I want people to realise that their implacable opposition (and their ridicule and abuse) toward the subject of UFOs and UFO proponents is misguided.
I don't ridicule cases and I only ridicule those proponents who make it really easy by making their lack of research and knowledge obvious.

I want people to realise that many people in the field are genuine, qualified researchers who seek to use the tools of science, logic, rational though AND sceptical thinking (for what is a scientist if not a sceptic) to explicate the mystery of UFOs.
And many, if not the vast majority in the field, are hoaxers and charlatans, as you yourself admit later on.

I want people to realise there is a genuine mystery at the heart of UFO sightings.
How do you know that the mystery is genuine?

There is a lot of “noise” but there is also a “signal” and we need to sort the signal from the noise.
How do you know that there's a signal? Are you saying that it's completely impossible that it's all noise? From where does this certainty come?

I want people to realise that while there are cases that DO indeed have mundane explanations,
The vast majority of cases in fact.

there also exist well documented, reliable cases that do not.
That you know of. Any scientist worthy of the name would know to add that caveat. Remember, if nobody had figured out that it was oil well fires, Campeche would be one of your prime cases.

I want them to realise that I too am frustrated and disappointed that the field of UFO research is full to the brim with hoaxers, and charlatans, but that should not prevent a true search for accurate knowledge.
I completely agree. On all points.

That also does not mean that an irrational, unsceptical generalisation of ridicule and abuse should be directed toward anyone who “dares” to propose an opinion opposite to those in this thread who think that they “know it all”.
Interesting that you claim to "know" that at least some of the cases are "genuine" and "signal", yet cannot convince anyone else of that. Either you are privy to knowledge that you haven't shared, or you're leaping to a conclusion before all of the evidence is in, which would hardly be scientific, would it?

Simply, I want people to realise that genuine UFOs exist
How do you know?

and that there are genuine people involved in trying to find out what they represent.
But by your own admission, they're swamped by hoaxers and charlatans.

The mantra of the UFO debunkers has been a blind assertion of a statement of belief that “It cannot be, therefore it isn’t”. I am here to challenge that belief.
No, the "mantra", for want of a better word, is "Show us some decent evidence". I have stated before, and will state again, any time I'm asked, "It can be, but it might not."

Examining “old” cases is not “fruitless” if they can show that genuine UFOs, for which there is NO plausible mundane explanation, exist
No plausible mundane explanation that you know of. What part of that is so hard to understand.

I don't say that all UFOs must have mundane explanations, but you seem to think that, just because you can't think of a plausible mundane explanation, no such explanation exists.

(if you notice there is a case from 2006 on my list –hardly an “old” case).
And yet, nobody has any idea what it was. It's a UFO. Unidentified.
 
And right there is where you fail.

Please state one case where you know, completely, categorically, with no margin for error, that there is absolutely no possibility of a mundane explanation, even a mundane explanation that nobody has thought of.

If you suggest any case as fulfilling the above then you are either a liar or a complete idiot.
Why didn't you respond to this post Rramjet?
 
No-one has ever claimed that eyewitnesses are 100% reliable 100% of the time. In the Rogue River case the witnesses only had to be reliable enough to note that the craft was “"circular (analogous to a coin), with silent motion (displaying variable aerial manoeuvrability in direction and speed) with the ability to move at the speed of a jet plane."..

Ignoring all the examples previously presented where people have misperceived airplanes (and other objects) as "daylight discs" that were circular in nature.


IF YOU can come up with a mundane explanation which fits the description of the object ("circular (analogous to a coin), with silent motion (displaying variable aerial manoeuvrability in direction and speed) with the ability to move at the speed of a jet plane."), then please do. Until then my claim that no such object exists will stand as the most likely hypothesis.

I did. I even presented a film shot of a "circular/disc shaped object". You stated it was not valid. It was shot in a clear blue sky over Catalina island in the 1960s. The photographer thought it was disc-shaped. It was viewed by hundreds if not thousands over the years and all agreed it was a "daylight disc". It was later determined through analysis to be a small aircraft. Therefore, your argument that no mundane explanation which fits the description is false.

Additionally, it is not the "most likely" hypothesis because you can not show that any such craft as described by the witness exists and you can not demonstrate the eyewitnesses were accurate in their observations. PROVE THEY WERE 100% ACCURATE IN THEIR OBSERVATIONS. Until you can do so, it is not the "most likely" hypothesis. The MOST LIKELY hypothesis is that the witnesses misperceived an object as this shape since the history of UFO sightings that can be explained has shown this happens a majority of the time. Your argument is a false argument based on belief and not on rational thinking.

I do not have to “present records” - although I did choose to present the historical records to show that it was implausible that a blimp could have been at the place at the time. All I have to demonstrate is that no known object exists that fit the descriptions of the object. Moreover, considering the attributes of a blimp (overall shape, fins, gondola, noisy engines, large colourful advertising logo), it would be totally implausible for the witnesses (five of them!) to have missed a “blimp” for precisely what it was..

You stated you eliminated all mundane objects. You DO have to present records to make this kind of statement. You are ignoring the potential for human error, which is impossible to quantify. Any REAL SCIENTIST would know this. A PRETEND SCIENTIST would ignore this problem.
 
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...but this is a mere belief statement and I have provided the evidence that shows that belief to be false.

No you haven't. You have made claims that it is false. Can you show us where the blimp was on that day and time? Until you do, you can not falsify this hypothesis.

Have you EVER investigated actual UFO cases on your own? If so, how many? How many could you find have a rational explanation?
 
Sure... here:
[qimg]http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg117/ThePsychoClown/blimp-1.jpg[/qimg]

This is a photo of a blimp

In 1976 I saw a cluster of these, higher in altitude over to the South East of London E17. It was 12.05pm, clear skies and sunny. They were moving about within this cluster in a way which I thought was impossible. So I stopped to watch. As I watched, one of them zipped across the sky to the North West so fast I had to turn quickly to track it. It stopped on an instant - no slowing down. Then another and another followed it across the sky, until all of them formed a new cluster in the North West. I don't believe this was an illusion, or caused by some sort of atmospheric effect. The sun glinted off them as if they were metallic.

I do not believe these were "alien" aircraft.

Aliens would require technology and intelligence far greater than is demonstrated by these primitive flying metal barrels.

If they came here, they may or may not care if we see them - they may think there is nothing we can do to interfere with their plans - who knows what they may think?

But I suspect any Alien force coming here would expect a high return value to offset their costs in coming here, and to jeopardise capitalising on this by parading themselves about in our skies in our full view would be a very indiscreet and imprudent move on their part. I hardly think that the expense and effort that went into "Operation Earth" would be jeopardised by flaunting a few Blimps in our faces. They would not be stupid enough to flit about in the sky giving us all plenty of warning and plenty of time to arm against them.

If Aliens were to come here they would choose their moment to appear before us, either to make friends or make war with us.

If they wish to make war with us, all they need to do is release a nasty virus (which presumably they would be immune to) and wipe us out.

I think the making friends option could lead to a more interesting discussion on here. But where would a primitive machine like a Blimp fit in with that theory?

I've looked at the skies and seen interesting activity. I do not believe Aliens are here... yet.

Ramjet is fantasising.
 
Going back to my UFO/flock of geese sighting; If the geese had not circled around for a landing, I would still believe I had seen a huge, silent, triangular shaped craft. A mundane alternative would not have convinced me. This object was either smaller (100 ft x 50 feet) and low flying or incredibly huge and high flying (and of course anywhere in between). Had it been low, it's speed was far to slow for standard flight physics. There was no sound, so the power plant must have been exotic. Flying high, the thing would have been incredibly huge, on the scale of hundreds of yards to miles.

I am very familiar with the night sky as I have been an "amateur" amateur astronomer for most of my life. I have excellent eyesight and am usually the first to pick out dim satellites (damn it! one T two L's) as they pass overhead. I know most of the major northern sky constellations, many of the major stars, and where/what planets are visible and what they look like.

Where does mundane fit in with what I saw? Yet a flock of geese lit from distant streetlights is as mundane as it gets.

I was completely fooled for the minute or so before the geese came back around. What this little tale boils down to is the brain finds its own reality out of the given input. Unidentified does not mean it can't be mundane. My initial sighting seemed to violate know physics, but it didn't in the end.
 
by definition, if a UFO report does not have a mundane explanation, then it is “alien”.

As has been pointed out to you, it is not possible to completely rule out any and all mundane explanations. There will always be a small possibility for a mundane explanation. Unless you can present positive proof for the exotic, negative proof for different mundane causes will not cut it.
 
Case: Rogue River (http://www.brumac.8k.com/Rogue/RogueRiver2.htm).

Hypothesis: This case has no mundane explanation.

Proof: There is no mundane object that fits the description of circular (analogous to a coin), with silent motion (displaying variable aerial manoeuvrability in direction and speed) with the ability to move at the speed of a jet plane.

Ok, do you have any new evidence to present in this case or is it still a long distance observation from an unsteady observation platform on a hazy day of an object that had the sillhouette of a blimp in an area were there were blimps located?

If so, please present them or accept that it was quite possibly a blimp
 
The witnesses had the advantage of a clear “blue-sky” day with the sun at their backs. Two of the witnesses had the added advantage of being able to observe the object with the aid of binoculars.

Re. clear day, two words: heat haze.
Re. binoculars, four words: in boat, on river
 
You don’t seem to make any logical or rational point here.

Are you trying to be ironic? There was a 161 paged thread thrashing out the Rogue River blimp case, I suggest you read it.

Demonstrably I have presented the evidence (the document contained under the link I provided) and I have presented a summary description of the “craft”. If you refuse to look at that evidence (or even consider it) then the statement "Don't bother me with the evidence my mind is made up" will clearly apply to you.

Only because you ignore any evidence that doesn't fit your world view The "Don't bother me with the evidence my mind is made up" quote is still applicable to you.

If anyone asks for more information about the case I am only to happy to provide it – so your statement "what the public doesn't know I won't tell them" is demonstrably not applicable to me. Perhaps however you are privy to information that I am not, but in that case, considering that you have not divulged that information, the statement will clearly apply to you.

Maybe on your planet but this is earth.

If however your statement is your convoluted way in which you contest my assertion that there is no mundane object that fits the description - or that you contest the description itself - then what are the reasons you so contest?

"What the public doesn't know I won't tell them."
 
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WOW! Back to Rogue River...what can I say...is there a way for the mods to perform euthanasia on a thread?
 
WOW! Back to Rogue River...what can I say...is there a way for the mods to perform euthanasia on a thread?

well I can't but help feel this is all your fault
who was it that suggested Rramjet start a "rigorous scientific study on the abduction phenomena and/or UFO sightings,"
that was you
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5126332&postcount=71
:p
I also seem to remember that you called me a name for suggesting that such a study would be pointless
how those words must haunt you now
lol
:D
 
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No, this isn't possible. It can't be alive again. What do we need to do, ram a silver-tipped wooden stake through this thread's heart, cut off it's head then burn everything? We're done here. The argument's over. Rramjet lost. He provided no evidence for his claims. Why would anyone possibly think this thread needed another chance?
 
No, this isn't possible. It can't be alive again. What do we need to do, ram a silver-tipped wooden stake through this thread's heart, cut off it's head then burn everything? We're done here. The argument's over. Rramjet lost. He provided no evidence for his claims. Why would anyone possibly think this thread needed another chance?

apart from winding you up I can see no worthwhile cause for it either
:p

if it was a vampire you'd have to destroy the entire coven to ensure it didn't rise again
that would be
jakesteele - original thread instigator - http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153911
Tapio - for suggesting a rigourous scientific study
Rramjet - for being Rramjet
KotA (no longer neccesary since he went for a walk in the sunshine a couple of weeks back)

once youd done that I'm quite sure the demonic forces that keep this thread alive would ba banished, the sickness certainly hasn't spread to anyone reading this thread. Even those who were a little confused about aliens being here when Rramjet started are damned sure they havent visited now
:D
 
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It might be vaguely interesting to see Snidely pop back in and tell us what he thinks now.
 
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