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Magnetic reconnection and physical processes

Helicity is from the right hand rule. It is not from some mechanical twisting of the magnetic field below or at the tube footprint..
MHD is misapplied. And it should show the right hand rule.
And if it is from helicity, then the flux tube is formed by the current flowing through it.
Wrong.
Helicity is created from whatever forces twist the magnetic flux tube.
MHD is not misapplied.
MHD does not need to "show the right hand rule".
And if it is from helicity, then the flux tube is not formed by the current flowing through it since that is impossible in a plasma. The helicity is formed by a current flowing through an already existing flux tube.

ETA
About spheromaks and what you did not quote:
Making spheromaks: Making spheromaks is analogous to blowing bubbles: the component of the magnetic stress tensor parallel to the magnetic field acts like the surface tension in the soap film while the perpendicular component acts like the air pressure inflating the bubble. When the destabilizing stress due to the perpendicular component overwhelms the stabilizing stress due to the parallel component, a detached spheromak breaks off.
The quote is not clear but the diagrams are:
Plasma is created in a "flux tube" that already exists (the magnetic field from a big electromagnet) by running a current through a gas. That current twists the already existing magnetic field. It does not create it.


ETA2
Step 6 in Making spheromaks: "poloidal magnetic field lines break and reconnect".

Is this yet another actual demonstration of magnetic reconnection in an experiment :jaw-dropp !
 
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As soon as the electrons are accelerated they do not need an electric field to retain their speed. Cathode ray tubes do that all the time.
So electron beams are also "jets".

"ELECTRON GUN

The ELECTRON GUN consists of a HEATER and a CATHODE to generate electrons, a CONTROL GRID to control brightness by controlling electron flow, and two ANODES (FIRST and SECOND). The main purpose of the first (FOCUSING) anode is to focus the electrons into a narrow beam on the screen. The second (ACCELERATING) anode accelerates the electrons as they pass."
http://www.tpub.com/neets/book16/71.htm

So if the beam is a jet then there are electric fields in the reconnection doing the acceleration..... Not magnetic fields....

That makes it more like a pinch with double layers as the flux tubes change current paths.

They are not. As the papter states: "Polar plumes are magnetically unipolar, linear, high-density structures in the polar coronal holes of the Sun."

Kind of like Berkelands Terrella.
320px-Fig-259.jpg

http://www.plasma-universe.com/Kristian_Birkeland#Field-aligned_.22Birkeland.22_currents
 
So if the beam is a jet then there are electric fields in the reconnection doing the acceleration..... Not magnetic fields....

That makes it more like a pinch with double layers as the flux tubes change current paths.
The beam is a jet. There are electric fields in a magnetic reconnection. So the electron beam was accelerated by either the magnetic fileds or the electric fields. I think that electric fields are more likely.

That makes it more like a magnetic reconnection.

Please tell me that you are not another person like Micheal Mozina whose knowledge of physics has not extended beyond Birkeland's century old experiments?

Solar plumes are nothing like Birkeland's Terrella.
 
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Wrong.
Helicity is created from whatever forces twist the magnetic flux tube.
MHD is not misapplied.
MHD does not need to "show the right hand rule".
And if it is from helicity, then the flux tube is not formed by the current flowing through it since that is impossible in a plasma. The helicity is formed by a current flowing through an already existing flux tube.

ETA
About spheromaks and what you did not quote:

The quote is not clear but the diagrams are:
Plasma is created in a "flux tube" that already exists (the magnetic field from a big electromagnet) by running a current through a gas. That current twists the already existing magnetic field. It does not create it.

You are saying that the solenoidal field is being twisted by the plasma filling the flux tubes????

There ya go again thinking field lines are real.

Electrons gyrate around "field lines" which is actually the average field density because the electrons orbit from the center along a vector trajectory. There are not really lines there.
Just a position in the field based on field strength....

The parallel field keeps the electrons going in a parallel direction. The current actually forms the current channels which twist according to the right hand rule.

When they have a probe small enough and at the right time they will find a tube within a tube structure to the field aligned current flux tubes. CLUSTER has observed this in the magnetosphere.

The local field density is changed by the current channels. This allows the right hand rule to take effect. The plasma forms its own field that is a combination of the background field and the current channel field.
The current channels override the background field and causes the twist..

The background field does not get twisted. It cant.
 
Please tell me that you are not another person like Micheal Mozina whose knowledge of physics has not extended beyond Birkeland's century old experiments?

Solar plumes are nothing like Birkeland's Terrella.

What?? Has physics changed while I wasnt looking????
That experiment is still valid.

Those plumes in the terrella are flux tubes as are the plumes from the sun. Maybe you dont think the sun is made of iron....

Movement of particles and magnetic fields.

An electric current in plasma from an anode to a cathode.


Dont be so insulting. And dont denigrate MM so much.
It makes you guys look bad. Like that is your only recourse.

Stick to the science......
 
No. You apparently misunderstand Birkeland's research as badly as Michael does.


In what way?????? Did he not try to model the sun??

Or was it just a magnetized sphere in plasma.....No relation to our solar system.....
 
Wrong.
Helicity is created from whatever forces twist the magnetic flux tube.
Yeah. The right hand rule!.

ETA2
Step 6 in Making spheromaks: "poloidal magnetic field lines break and reconnect".

Is this yet another actual demonstration of magnetic reconnection in an experiment :jaw-dropp !

Just because they say that does not make it so. They are just repeating the mantra...

The rule is: Magnetic fields only change because the current flow changes.

The current goes away; the magnetic field drops off; null.

The current comes back in a different topology, and the magnetic field comes back in a different topology; reconnection!
 
No. You apparently misunderstand Birkeland's research as badly as Michael does.


Wow I dont think I've come across such a troll as you before, seriously I would think before you post, none of them (that I've seen) contain anything worth posting. Welcome to ignore. Bye. :)
 
You are saying that the solenoidal field is being twisted by the plasma filling the flux tubes????
No.

There ya go again thinking field lines are real.
There ya go again thinking that you can read my mind.
Field lines are not real. They are a representation of the magnetic vector field. A magnetic vector field is not real. It is a mathematical object that models the physics of magnetism.

The background field does not get twisted. It cant.
The background field does get twisted. It can.
 
What?? Has physics changed while I wasnt looking????
That experiment is still valid.
It is valid but not for the Sun. The Sun is not an iron ball. Solar plumes are not Birkeland currents.

Those plumes in the terrella are flux tubes as are the plumes from the sun. Maybe you dont think the sun is made of iron....
Those plumes in the terrella are electrical discharges The plumes in the sun are not.
I know that the Sun is not made of iron. Only an idiot would think so.

Dont be so insulting. And dont denigrate MM so much.
It makes you guys look bad. Like that is your only recourse.
We are not denigrating MM.
Pointing out his lack of knowledege of physics in general is just stating the obvious. He also has made some errors with respect to Birkeland's experiments which have also been pointed out to him in other threads. Maybe you are ignorant of the enormous Electric universe theories here thread and the many outstanding questions that MM is unable to answer.

Thank you for reminding me - there is another question to add to the list :eye-poppi !
 
Wrong.
Helicity is created from whatever forces twist the magnetic flux tube.
Yeah. The right hand rule!.
Yeah wrong: Helicity is created from whatever forces twist the magnetic flux tube.
These forces could include simply rotating the dorce of the magnetic field.
In the case of coronal loops, an already existing magnetic fieldsis twisted by any currents in the flux tube. This is the "right hand rule" and nothing to do with the existence of the flux tube to start with.
In the case of a spheromaks, an already existing magnetic field is twisted by currents in the device. This is the "right hand rule" and nothing to do with the existence of the magnetic field to start with.

Just because they say that does not make it so. They are just repeating the mantra...

The rule is: Magnetic fields only change because the current flow changes.

The current goes away; the magnetic field drops off; null.

The current comes back in a different topology, and the magnetic field comes back in a different topology; reconnection!
Look at the spheromak how do to diagram. The current does not "go away" and so cannot come back in a different topology. The current I is always there. The toriodal field due to I is always there. There is also a poloidal I in the free spheromak plasma.

The magnetic field does change to a different topology - magnetic reconnection!
 
Look at the spheromak how do to diagram. The current does not "go away" and so cannot come back in a different topology. The current I is always there. The toriodal field due to I is always there. There is also a poloidal I in the free spheromak plasma.

The magnetic field does change to a different topology - magnetic reconnection!


I see there is a pair of real detectable currents and yes a toriodal field, the fact that a poloidal field exists should be self evident from the toriodal field.

To represent the magnetic side of the spectrum field lines have been drawn on to give us a guide as to what the field strength at each point is. As the magnetic configuration moves so must the lines we put in, which due to our geometric choice of model for the field creates neutral points, where the field vectors cancel out and leave B at zero.

Energy is 'released'.

Unless you say that the cancelling vectors create the energy (want to try and explain that one, anyone? :D ) its very hard using field lines to explain the end result.

Its also hard to explain how any significant magnetic energy could be unleashed from a point which, by definition, has no energy, as it is a neutral point, and obeys [latex]W_b=\frac{1}{2{\mu}_0}\int{{B}^2_I}dv[/latex] (where BI is the magnitude of the magnetic field, and dv is a small volume element)
 
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When you produce million degree plasma with "magnetic reconnection", tell me then who's talking out of their backside. Right now your whole argument sounds well, rather pathetic.

I'm sorry, your whole argument boils down to Alfven said it therefore it must be true. It science terms this is as pathetic as it gets.
 
Yeah. The right hand rule!.

brantc, can you please tell us what the "right hand rule" is, in your own words?

The rule is: Magnetic fields only change because the current flow changes.

Wrong. For example, the magnetic field in a radio wave in a completely empty vacuum is changing. There is zero current flow.

The current goes away; the magnetic field drops off; null.

Wrong. See above, or a permanent magnet, or any curl-less magnetic field.

The current comes back in a different topology, and the magnetic field comes back in a different topology; reconnection!

That's not at all how reconnection happens. The current doesn't "go away". In the primary example of reconnection in plasma we've discussed in these threads (which is a simple, explicit solution to Maxwell's equations), the current doesn't do anything like that.
 
Boloney. He knew it formed a "double layer" and that's how he treated it. Did you not read the paper or his quotes on this topic?
[/quote[

Okay, let's go to that paper and see what he writes at the end:

H.A. said:
E. Magnetic Substorms
According to Bostrom (1974) and Akasofu (1977), an explosion of the transverse current in the magnetotail gives an attractive mechanism for the production of magnetic substorms (see Fig. I 1). Bostrom has shown that an
equivalent magnetic substorm circuit is a way of presenting the substorm model. The onset of a substorm is due to the formation of a double layer, which interrupts the cross-tail current so that it is redirected to the ionosphere.

Just one example would suffice I think. This is basically what now is called "current disruption" (see the papers by Lui et al. that I quoted before), however, although there are now many observations by Cluster and THEMIS in the current disruption region, approximately 10 to 12 Earth radii down the tail. There have been NO measurements of a double layer that is exploding. There are lots of observations of instabilities in that tail region, which lead to disruptions of the cross tail current, part of which is diverted to the ionosphere. Although there are several other processes that do this, for example the braking of a bursty bulk flow sets up a current oppositely directed to the cross tail current and sets up the so called substorm current wedge. By the way here is a whole list of Lui papers many on CD.

No self respecting electrical engineer would ever make the bonehead mistake of claiming that a "full continuum", without beginning or end could ever "disconnect" or "reconnect" to any other full continuum. He treated these scenarios from the "particle/circuit" orientation of MHD theory, just like that paper I cited on macroscopic circuits that cite his earlier work.

And what happens with the "full continuun" near the X-line where obviously B=0???????

You folks are like blind mice, trying to use the B "field" orientation to explain *EVERYTHING* that happens in plasma, rather than using both the E and B orientations as Alfven did. You therefore treat everything as 'magnetic yada, yada, yada", even discharges in plasma. You might as well claim that any electrical discharges is a "magnetic reconnection' event because the magnetic field topologies certainly change over time.

Mikey mikey, once more you make yourself look silly. Look at the Runov et al papers with observations near the reconnection sites and see the disucssion of electrical currents. The fact that you stopped really reading anything not written by Alfven cannot be helt against us.

Now, when is that long awaited circuit description of reconnection coming?
Now, when is that BIG description of the plasma ball coming?

You are a relict, MM, and a fraud, promising much but delivering nothing.

And interesting that you say that Einstein may have come to accept quantum physics if he had been alive longer. The same goes for Alfven, if he would have been interested in plasma physics after the late 80s. But it did not interest him anymore, he wanted to study the resonances he envisioned in the Kronian rings. Ask people from the Alfven laboratory in Stockholm about the plot he hanged on the wall (several meters long) and how he wanted everyone he talked to to work on that.
 
Keep telling yourself this, Michael. Perhaps it will bring you comfort to hear yourself repeat it, even as the rest of the world ignores you.

Of course what MM forgets is that to get an electrical discharge there needs to be:
  1. charge separation
  2. an isulator between the two charges
  3. a break down of the insulator

which is rather difficult to obtain in a ionized gas.
 
And what happens with the "full continuun" near the X-line where obviously B=0???????

NOTHING!

You are a relict, MM, and a fraud, promising much but delivering nothing.

Oh please. A discharge theory explains:

A) The temperatures associated with these events.
B) The speed of propagation of the event which Bruce demonstrated in the 50's.
C) The "looping nature" of the discharges themselves as Birkeland actually *predicted* (real empirical predictions too, not your fudge factor, after the fact stuff) over 100 years ago.
D) produce x-rays galore
E) produce gamma rays "naturally" in our own atmosphere.

You're a complete and utter fraud. You will *NEVER* demonstrate any empirical link between those million degree coronal loops and "magnetic reconnection" in a lab, not to mention anything else on that list. You're full of it. You hope like hell nobody notices. When presented with evidence you don't (like that macroscopic circuits paper) you simply ignore it! Dude you really shouldn't be throwing stones considering the load of crap you're peddling professionally.
 
In what way?????? Did he not try to model the sun??

Or was it just a magnetized sphere in plasma.....No relation to our solar system.....

Forget it. He has no intention of having an honest scientific conversation. All he's interested in doing here is bashing me personally, and eventually anyone who doesn't "conform to his will' on this topic. He's like an abusive father figure. If he doesn't get what he wants he turns into a petty abusive tyrant.

GM is not even remotely interested in finding "truth". To him this is all just an ego battle. Z probably has the right approach as far as GM is concerned.
 


And that's exactly what you've offered so far in the way of an explanation for this. You do know, Michael, when you willfully ignore, as you have a habit of doing, that's called willful ignorance.

Now how about explaining quite nicely, as you said you could, how the "circuit/resistor" approach applies to heating a coronal loop to millions of degrees.

Why do you suppose that no professional physicist on Earth agrees with your nutty fantasy?

Do you think demonstrating your ignorance is an effective way to... well... to do anything at all that could remotely be described as scientific?

Who, of all the scientists on this planet, do you respect enough that if he/she told you you're wrong you would accept it?
 

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