Obama and Dems to go it alone on health-care reform, if GOP refuses to compromise

[applecorped]

as a patriotic American, I would like to see our politicians come together in some fashion, to pass a bi-partisan bill.

Even if we only get 4 Senators onboard, thats better then nothing.

But, if the GOP insists on "starting over", than they can forget it, and we will do it without them.

'Come together" with "Starting over"? Are you a Beatles fan?

 

[Skeptic]

as a patriotic American, I would like to see our politicians come together in some fashion, to pass a bi-partisan bill.

With "bipartisan" meaning what it usually means for Obama, "Republicans signing on the dotted line and not asking any questions".

 

[Bob Blaylock]

yes, GOPers clearly feel that leaving the status quo is the best option.

No, that's not what we think. What we think is that maintaining the status quo is better than doing something that will only make matters worse.

Change is good, but only if it change for the better. In this case, nobody is offering anything that will make things better. We have only a proposal that will make things much, much worse. Compared to that, doing nothing is the better choice.

 

[The Painter]

But, if the GOP insists on "starting over", than they can forget it, and we will do it without them.

You'll do it without them? If you could do that, why didn't you do it before?
You know, the last time?

 

[Shadowdweller]

With "bipartisan" meaning what it usually means for Obama, "Republicans signing on the dotted line and not asking any questions".

Yeah, the present obscene rate of filibusters is obviously evidence of the Democrats' insane partisanship.

 

[The Painter]

42 votes for cloture. 38 successful. How is that obscene?

 

[Thunder]

You'll do it without them? If you could do that, why didn't you do it before?
You know, the last time?

well, we were going to. but now because the ********* voted against their best interests, we have to do it through reconciliation, which takes more time.

but Obama wanted to give it a shot, and see if we could get some GOPers on board, so we could avoid reconciliation. but if they still refuse to jump ship, we will do it by any means necessary.

Edited by Locknar: 

Edited for beach of Rule 10.

 

[Thunder]

No, that's not what we think. What we think is that maintaining the status quo is better than doing something that will only make matters worse.

how will preventing insurance companies from not covering pre-conditions, make things worse?

how will preventing insurance companies from dropping coverage because yuo get sick, make things worse?

how will setting up a non-profit option for all Americans, make things worse?

do tell us, oh wise one.

 

[Thunder]

With "bipartisan" meaning what it usually means for Obama, "Republicans signing on the dotted line and not asking any questions".

ah, Skeptic. The king of strawman arguments.

 

[willhaven]

The main problem with the bill is it deals almost entirely with health insurance, and not the root cause of the problem - the cost of health care.

Piss and moan all you like about the cost of health insurance, but until pressure is brought to bear on reducing the cost of health care nothing will lower the cost of health insurance, not even a public option.

Do I need to remind everyone here once again that the total value of insurance company profits and overhead is less than 5% of the total cost of health care?

So you don't believe the health insurance exchange pool will drive costs down?

 

[AlBell]

how will preventing insurance companies from not covering pre-conditions, make things worse?

how will preventing insurance companies from dropping coverage because yuo get sick, make things worse?

how will setting up a non-profit option for all Americans, make things worse?

do tell us, oh wise one.

How high do you think the rate increases will need to be? Double? Triple? Guess Again? And how rapidly will they need to be imposed?

 

[The Painter]

well, we were going to. but now because the Massholes voted against their best interests, we have to do it through reconciliation, which takes more time.

but Obama wanted to give it a shot, and see if we could get some GOPers on board, so we could avoid reconciliation. but if they still refuse to jump ship, we will do it by any means necessary.

So you are advocating going against the will of the people and dictating what they should do. There's a name for this. It will come to me, wait, oh yeah, A Dictatorship. That's what you want???

This kind of thinking just makes me shake my head. It also reminds me why I liked Reagan so much;

I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves.

Ronald Reagan

 

[Thunder]

So you are advocating going against the will of the people and dictating what they should do. There's a name for this. It will come to me, wait, oh yeah, A Dictatorship.

ummm....no.

a dictatorship is where one person of a few people make ALL the decisions, and there is no checks and balances, or accountability. and a brutal police state to squash dissent.

now, if after Obama releases his plan (tomorrow) and the Dems decide this will be their plan, and major polls are done that show a large majority of the American people DO NOT want this plan, then I would advise against the Democrats pushing it through.

now, if polls are done after the plan comes out, at close to 50% or more support the plan, then I will support the Dems moving forward and passing it through reconciliation.

happy? thought not.

what happens in the next two weeks will really decide the fate of health-care reform in the USA.

 

[WildCat]

well, we were going to. but now because the Massholes voted against their best interests, we have to do it through reconciliation, which takes more time.

This attitude is why the GOP will pick up a lot of seats in November.

 

[Thunder]

This attitude is why the GOP will pick up a lot of seats in November.

wanna make a bet?

I am willing to bet $50 that Democrats will retain their majorities in both the House and the Senate.

 

[WildCat]

So you don't believe the health insurance exchange pool will drive costs down?

Not to any significant extent.

At the end of the day any health insurance premiums paid have to cover the money spent on health care. And health care costs are increasing at a rate far higher than inflation.

How do you think an exchange pool for health insurance will lower the cost of health care?

 

[WildCat]

wanna make a bet?

I am willing to bet $50 that Democrats will retain their majorities in both the House and the Senate.

Where did I say they would lose their majority?

 

[Thunder]

what is the reason why ER costs are three times as high as they should be? to cover the costs of the uninsured.

 

[stevea]

No, that's not what we think. What we think is that maintaining the status quo is better than doing something that will only make matters worse.

Change is good, but only if it change for the better. In this case, nobody is offering anything that will make things better. We have only a proposal that will make things much, much worse. Compared to that, doing nothing is the better choice.

But I'm an Obama convert - I Hope for Change every day now.

what is the reason why ER costs are three times as high as they should be? to cover the costs of the uninsured.

And to cover the costs of medicatre/medicaid which only pays ~75% of actual costs.

Your figures are wrong in one important respect. Hospitals bill about 2.5X to 3X the insurance negotiated rate, which is already roughly 1.5X the actual cost to cover the un/under-insured. So you are billed ~4X the actual amortized cost (including overhead). The entire hospital structure is balanced heavily on the back of insurance - the system Obama wants to destroy.

Any reasonable approach must begin with a practical assessment of basic costs and a FAIR apportionment. IOW the government freeloading must stop and we must all agree to pay something in taxes if the indigient are to be covered.

 

[Thunder]

tomorrow is Monday. Tomorrow Obama releases his compromise bill. Lets see what's in it. Lets see how the House and Senate Dems feel about it. Lets see what the polls say about America's reaction to it.

then we can decide if its a good or bad bill, and it reconciliation should be used to pass it.