Palin & Family Guy

[Cicero]

'Whiny cry-baby' is reserved for when those on the left complain about anything, valid or vapid. 'Righteous anger' is for the right whenever they complain about anything, valid, vapid, or non existent.

The accepted far right wing way to criticize her complaint would be to simply say, "nut up or shut up," then throw a football into her stomach hard while you walk past her.

That or, 'gitter dun'. It's been a some time since my participant observation of that sub culture.

What sub culture are you now an actual participant in and not merely an observer? Is it the one where everyone gets a trophy for showing up, is in therapy three days a week with no appreciable results, and professes tolerance unless of course it is anyone who doesn't agree with their weltanschauung.

 

[tyr_13]

What sub culture are you now an actual participant in and not merely an observer? Is it the one where everyone gets a trophy for showing up, is in therapy three days a week with no appreciable results, and professes tolerance unless of course it is anyone who doesn't agree with their weltanschauung.

Right, this is about me and the groups I move in. Not about Family Guy, Sara Palin, and Downs Syndrome jokes.

Grasping at straw just gets your arms itchy.

 

[Cicero]

Tu quoque duly noted.

You really mean touché.

Also I'm impressed that the Family Guy crew actually gave an actor with Down Syndrome a speaking role instead of having some regular actor doing it.

Why wouldn't MacFarlane give the voice-over role to a Down Syndrome person? That way the actress could pony up her rebuke of S.P. should S.P. dare criticize the portrayal of her child in this cartoon

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

portrayal of her child in this cartoon

Her child was not portrayed in this cartoon anymore than Monica Lewinsky is portrayed when they show Bill Clinton chasing chubby girls.

What exactly is the insult in a fictional character inferring that Sarah Palin is her mother? Would it be insulting to Liz Cheney if a fictional homosexual man mentioned he was the son of a "Former neoconservative Vice President?" Would it be insulting if a fictional autistic girl claimed to be the daughter of a "Former playmate and dating show hostesss?" Would it be insulting for a fictional character that is a male Oxford and Stanford graduate about to get married mention he was the son of a "Former President and current Secretary?"

More than anything, it seemed like a random pop culture reference. Currently Sarah Palin is the most famous mother of a Down Syndrome child. This was a call out to that. I picked up no inferance of "...and she's a bad person for having a DS child." Family Guy has definitely digged on Sarah Palin in the past. This really does not seem like of those times. I would think that being associated with the Nazi party to be a bigger insult than being associated with having a DS child. The former not even being an insult in my opinion.

 

[JFrankA]

Why wouldn't MacFarlane give the voice-over role to a Down Syndrome person? That way the actress could pony up her rebuke of S.P. should S.P. dare criticize the portrayal of her child in this cartoon

What exactly is the insult in a fictional character inferring that Sarah Palin is her mother? Would it be insulting to Liz Cheney if a fictional homosexual man mentioned he was the son of a "Former neoconservative Vice President?" Would it be insulting if a fictional autistic girl claimed to be the daughter of a "Former playmate and dating show hostesss?" Would it be insulting for a fictional character that is a male Oxford and Stanford graduate about to get married mention he was the son of a "Former President and current Secretary?"

Have you ever seen Robot Chicken and how the portray George W Bush's daughters?

http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chicken/george-w-gremlin.html

(there's others but I am about to go to work, so I can't search right now).

I wonder why Bush nor his daughters ever said "boo" about it?

Oh, I know. Because they knew it was only a joke and it doesn't mean a thing. Also because they don't want to use this as a platform to gain attention.....

 

[Cicero]

Her child was not portrayed in this cartoon anymore than Monica Lewinsky is portrayed when they show Bill Clinton chasing chubby girls.

If they referred to the chubby girl as the former POTUS Clinton intern with a stained blue dress then you might have an argument.

What exactly is the insult in a fictional character inferring that Sarah Palin is her mother? Would it be insulting to Liz Cheney if a fictional homosexual man mentioned he was the son of a "Former neoconservative Vice President?" Would it be insulting if a fictional autistic girl claimed to be the daughter of a "Former playmate and dating show hostesss?" Would it be insulting for a fictional character that is a male Oxford and Stanford graduate about to get married mention he was the son of a "Former President and current Secretary?"

More than anything, it seemed like a random pop culture reference. Currently Sarah Palin is the most famous mother of a Down Syndrome child. This was a call out to that. I picked up no inferance of "...and she's a bad person for having a DS child." Family Guy has definitely digged on Sarah Palin in the past. This really does not seem like of those times. I would think that being associated with the Nazi party to be a bigger insult than being associated with having a DS child. The former not even being an insult in my opinion.

When S.P. bristles at a perceived or real attack by the lame stream media or by a late night comic, it is because the target happens to be a family member, not her. But if the girl in "Family Guy," whose "mom is the ex-governor of Alaska," isn't supposed to be Trigg, and you recognize that McFarlane has targeted Palin in past shows, how is it you are confused about the identity of Andrea Fay Friedman's voice-over character?

 

[tyr_13]

Trigg is a boy! A child! NOT a teenage girl!

 

[Cicero]

Have you ever seen Robot Chicken and how the portray George W Bush's daughters?

http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chicken/george-w-gremlin.html

(there's others but I am about to go to work, so I can't search right now).

I wonder why Bush nor his daughters ever said "boo" about it?

Oh, I know. Because they knew it was only a joke and it doesn't mean a thing. Also because they don't want to use this as a platform to gain attention.....

Or because Bush 43's daughters were 24 at the time "Robot Chicken" aired and a sitting POTUS wouldn't call attention to a cartoon that made fun of him or his adult daughters when that was already de rigueur in the lame stream media when he was POTUS.

But if you really want an example of a former POTUS being excessively protective of their 27 year-old child how about William Jefferson's demand to have a photo of Chelsea removed from a restaurant window.

"The owner of a New York City restaurant is “heartbroken” over a letter he received from former President Bill Clinton's lawyer asking that a photograph of daughter Chelsea be removed from his eatery -— or face legal action.

The photo, taken of the former first daughter with Osso Buco owner Nino Selimaj, has been on display in the window of the Greenwich Village haunt for about five years, the restaurateur said. It was snapped when Chelsea, now 27, was having dinner there with a group of about 30 friends.

But Selimaj said he was shocked when he received a letter from Clinton’s lawyer Douglas J. Band on Sept. 18 threatening legal action if the photograph of “private citizen” Chelsea was not taken down. The photograph is still on display near the front entrance of the restaurant -— only now, the letter is posted alongside it.

“We ask that you immediately remove that picture and any and all pictures displaying Ms. Clinton,” the letter warns. “We reserve the right to exercise any and all options available to us if you refuse to comply.” ...

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

how is it you are confused about the identity of Andrea Fay Friedman's voice-over character?

That is because I would not confuse Trigg with a teenage girl. The character has as much in common with Bristol Palin as it does with Trigg Palin. The character has more in common with the actress. Also, I do not see how the character is in and of itself insulting even if it was Trigg. "Trigg is a person just like everyone else." Wow, insulting! The whole point of the character was that Down Syndrome was irrelevant to judging the individual. Funny or offensive are of course completely different separate and personal measures. Still, I am not even seeing the perceived insult other than being mentioned.

If the point was actually an attack on Trigg or Sarah Palin I can see getting offended even if I would not agree. I just don't see where the attack is unless having Down Syndrome negatively reflects on a person or the person's parents. Which did not at all seem to be the implication in the show.

With David Letterman I can at least see the insult even if I disagree on the target or the reaction. Here I just do not see what the insult is. What was exactly mocking or insulting in this Family Guy episode that was directed towards Down Syndrome? Stewie may have said a few off color remarks, but he is supposed to be the bad guy opinion in the show overall and spent most of his efforts mocking Chris.

ETA: I would definitely agree that Bill Clinton was over reacting by asking to have that picture removed.

 

[Cicero]

Trigg is a boy! A child! NOT a teenage girl!

The mother of this character is the "former governor of Alaska." The sequence in "Family Guy" takes place in the future. The fact that the implication that Trigg had a sex change is over your head must mean that you miss a lot of "Family Guy" jokes.

 

[fuelair]

What sub culture are you now an actual participant in and not merely an observer? Is it the one where everyone gets a trophy for showing up, is in therapy three days a week with no appreciable results, and professes tolerance unless of course it is anyone who doesn't agree with their weltanschauung.

Honest, don't let 'em know it's getting to you!!!

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

The mother of this character is the "former governor of Alaska." The sequence in "Family Guy" takes place in the future. The fact that the implication that Trigg had a sex change is over your head must mean that you miss a lot of "Family Guy" jokes.

If it takes place over a decade in the future it might not be Sarah Palin then. Another woman might become Governor of Alaska and have a Down Syndrome child. I really do not think the implication was that Trigg would get a sex change. No, it is not over my head. I think you are reading more into the reference than is intended or expected.

 

[Moss]

You really mean touché.



Why wouldn't MacFarlane give the voice-over role to a Down Syndrome person? That way the actress could pony up her rebuke of S.P. should S.P. dare criticize the portrayal of her child in this cartoon

Sure. I like it when you explain to me what I really meant. Especially when my meaning seems to bother you. "You too!" is still a logical fallacy.


I could be misjudging the standard practice of the US media industry, but giving someone with Down Syndrome a speaking role when not doing so might be less of a hassle (finding the right actor and all that) seems pretty progressive. You may want to offer up evidence of of your claim of "they only did it to be on the moral high road when the Palin screechs".

 

[tyr_13]

The mother of this character is the "former governor of Alaska."

Wrong, the character says that her mother is the former governor of Alaska. It's a joke.

The sequence in "Family Guy" takes place in the future.

Wrong. It's a concurrent show with suspended age.

The fact that the implication that Trigg had a sex change is over your head must mean that you miss a lot of "Family Guy" jokes.

Wrong. I got the joke that the character made. You don't or you want to spin it into a 'liberal attack on Palin's family.'

 

[Moss]

Which factors in the episode imply that the girl had a sex change? Given the usual style of Family Guy you couldn't have missed that even if you are blind and deaf if anything of that sort were there.

 

[pgwenthold]

That is because I would not confuse Trigg with a teenage girl. The character has as much in common with Bristol Palin as it does with Trigg Palin. The character has more in common with the actress. Also, I do not see how the character is in and of itself insulting even if it was Trigg. "Trigg is a person just like everyone else." Wow, insulting! The whole point of the character was that Down Syndrome was irrelevant to judging the individual. Funny or offensive are of course completely different separate and personal measures. Still, I am not even seeing the perceived insult other than being mentioned.

I've said from the beginning, when I first saw the episode, I actually thought it was fairly monumental in how it treated the character. When was the last time you saw a DS character on TV being the object of a crush of a non-Downs person? I don't think that has ever been done before. Similarly, they treated the character as a real person, and not someone innocent. When has that ever happened with a DS character? This was absolutely groundbreaking in terms of treating DS characters on TV.

Then when I heard that they actually used a DS actor to do the voice, it clinched it. This is a serious topic for McFarlane, I think, and he treated it with extreme dignity.

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

In the end, it just shows that you can take the girl out of the trailer park, but you can't take the trailer park out of the girl...

A

 

[Cynic]

I was responding to a remark that seemed to ask that if it's not a "pot shot" at Palin, what is it.



It's fiction. The character is a jerk. I wouldn't go much more in depth than that.

Palin is just embarrassing herself to express outrage at this episode.

I agree that she's embarrassing herself. My point is, the fact that it references Palin at all, however obliquely, makes it a pot shot. This wasn't random absurdity, like a lot of their other asides ("Karen Black, what an obscure reference."). This was definitely alluding to Palin because she is currently associated with Down children. She was a convenient target, given the nature of the plot, but the emphasis is on target.

My guess is, the shot was pointing out that Palin has positioned herself as the patron saint of retarded children lately -- acting as their "mothers". I think it was taking aim at her self-righteous behavior. (And obviously not at Trig, who is not a woman at any rate.)

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Why wouldn't MacFarlane give the voice-over role to a Down Syndrome person? That way the actress could pony up her rebuke of S.P. should S.P. dare criticize the portrayal of her child in this cartoon

Do you really think they anticipated Palin making this into a news story, and that's what motivated their choice of actress?

I think that borders on a paranoid conspiracy theory.

(And I note that you didn't say that's what you think. You're just asking questions!)

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

My point is, the fact that it references Palin at all, however obliquely, makes it a pot shot.

I disagree.

This was definitely alluding to Palin because she is currently associated with Down children. She was a convenient target, given the nature of the plot, but the emphasis is on target.

I agree it was an oblique reference to Palin, but that doesn't make it a potshot at her.

My guess is, the shot was pointing out that Palin has positioned herself as the patron saint of retarded children lately -- acting as their "mothers". I think it was taking aim at her self-righteous behavior. (And obviously not at Trig, who is not a woman at any rate.)

I still don't see how it does this. I don't think Family Guy is noted for being subtle. And I don't think the writers anticipated Palin's response. If you're right, I would give them more credit, and then Cicero's CT might have some credibility.

I think again the purpose was to make the character even more odious by having her say to Chris, "Who do you think you are? I'm someone important and you're not." (That's a paraphrase--not a direct quote.)

And the broader purpose (the purpose for making a Down syndrome character odious) was to attack the stereotype of people with Down syndrome. I also note that she was aware of herself as a sexual being (IIRC, she referred to her body as "the temple" that Chris wanted access to)--something that also goes against the stereotype.