Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Fulcanelli]

Not only did the victim's right shoulder leave a blood imprint on the floor, the right bra strap also left a mark on the congealed blood puddled in this area.

The victim died with the bra still on her. There is no doubt or speculation about this. It is factual.

She also had lividity on her shoulder from being in that position for so long.

 

[piktor]

How to get convicted of a crime you commited, 1000% guaranteed

How did that one fly in court?

stilicho, now we know why the prosecution is batting 1000 and the defence is batting .000

The defence cannot win because the accused are helping the prosecution with what they did, with what they said, and prosecutors are helping their own cause with factual corroboration by their investigators and scientists.

 

[Alt+F4]

The defence cannot win because the accused are helping the prosecution with what they did, with what they said, and prosecutors are helping their own cause with factual corroboration by their investigators and scientists.

Indeed, and many things AK and RS said defy all common sense. The mop for example. They would have people believe that they left a large spill of water on RS's kitchen floor overnight because instead of using a towel to clean it up they decided they needed a mop. They would also have people believe that RS didn't have a mop even though the cleaning lady testified at trial that she mopped his apartment on a weekly basis.

Next, they would also have you believe that it made more sense to make the half mile trip back and forth from his apartment to hers in order to get her mop.

Is walking around Perugia with dirty mops some sort of local custom?

 

[Alt+F4]

First of all, what is a lie? From wikipedia we can find: "To lie is to state something that one knows to be false or that one does not honestly believe to be true with the intention that a person will take it for the truth." Since we are only talking about something that Raffaele wrote in a private diary, there isn't a second party to be lied to.

When we find evidence that the statement was intended to be presented as a defense I'll look for evidence that supports or refutes it. Until then, it isn't even an issue.

Your posts say two different things: first that it's possible that RS did stab MK with the big knife prior to the murder, now you're saying that even if it didn't happen it's not a lie. Either it happened or it didn't and every piece of availble evidence says it didn't. Why do you assume that anything written while in jail would be considered private?

I have not read anywhere that RS has ever tried to refute or take back the cooking/stabbing story. If he is not disputing that it's Meredith's DNA on the big knife, why should you?

 

[Kestrel]

On the subject of the victim's right leg position, it corroborates that the crime scene was staged and was recorded by investigators at the crime scene.

Simply repeating a claim does not prove that claim.

Give us an explanation, how does the position of the victims legs prove that a rape scene was staged?

 

[Kestrel]

Indeed, and many things AK and RS said defy all common sense. The mop for example. They would have people believe that they left a large spill of water on RS's kitchen floor overnight because instead of using a towel to clean it up they decided they needed a mop. They would also have people believe that RS didn't have a mop even though the cleaning lady testified at trial that she mopped his apartment on a weekly basis.

Why do you assume the cleaning lady stored a mop in RS's apartment?

 

[Alt+F4]

Why do you assume the cleaning lady stored a mop in RS's apartment?

I'm not. I'm assuming that RS had a mop in his apartment (most people do) which the cleaning lady used when she cleaned on Mondays. This makes more sense than her carrying her own mop around with her going from job to job.

For arguments sake, suppose there was no mop in RS's apartment. It makes zero sense to walk a quarter of a mile to her apartment, get her mop and walk back another quarter of a mile just to clean up spilled water.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

I'm not. I'm assuming that RS had a mop in his apartment (most people do) which the cleaning lady used when she cleaned on Mondays. This makes more sense than her carrying her own mop around with her going from job to job.

For arguments sake, suppose there was no mop in RS's apartment. It makes zero sense to walk a quarter of a mile to her apartment, get her mop and walk back another quarter of a mile just to clean up spilled water.

IIRC They claimed to use towels that evening to stop the pipe. One might use a mop to clean up dirt that would be tracked on the floor afterwards. When they were seen with the mop, was it inside or outside?

 

[Alt+F4]

IIRC They claimed to use towels that evening to stop the pipe. One might use a mop to clean up dirt that would be tracked on the floor afterwards. When they were seen with the mop, was it inside or outside?

I thought they couldn't even get their stories straight regarding the source of the water. He said a busted or leaky pipe, she said water spilled from cooking.

I believe the mop was outside when the Postal Police arrived and Amanda told them she had just come back from Raffaele's with the mop.

I think it's more likely they were on their way to his apartment to clean up evidence there when the police arrived. It would have been too suspicious to buy a new mop and his cleaning lady would have noticed if his mop was gone. With all the chaos of a murder investigation at her apartment a missing mop might go unoticed.

 

[Dan O.]

Your posts say two different things: first that it's possible that RS did stab MK with the big knife prior to the murder, now you're saying that even if it didn't happen it's not a lie.

From the evidence presented so far, it cannot be concluded whether the incident occurred or not. From reading the passages in Raffaele's diary, I believe that an incident similar to what he describes had happened. It could have been a different knife, it may not have been in his apartment and possibly did not even involve Meredith. But in the two days following the devastating news of the DNA found on the knife, Raffaele mind had constructed from this seed of a memory an imagined (or possibly dreamed) recreation of the event with the current cast. These two days were a period of high stress for Raffaele where a dream could become indistinguishable from a real memory.

Either it happened or it didn't and every piece of availble evidence says it didn't.

Now you are lying. There is no evidence that says it didn't happen. Only a lack of evidence that says it did.

 

[Alt+F4]

From reading the passages in Raffaele's diary, I believe that an incident similar to what he describes had happened. It could have been a different knife, it may not have been in his apartment and possibly did not even involve Meredith. But in the two days following the devastating news of the DNA found on the knife, Raffaele mind had constructed from this seed of a memory an imagined (or possibly dreamed) recreation of the event with the current cast. These two days were a period of high stress for Raffaele where a dream could become indistinguishable from a real memory.

Oh my gosh, such nonsense. Even Raffaele's defense team doesn't believe this.

 

[Kestrel]

I thought they couldn't even get their stories straight regarding the source of the water. He said a busted or leaky pipe, she said water spilled from cooking.

I believe the mop was outside when the Postal Police arrived and Amanda told them she had just come back from Raffaele's with the mop.

I think it's more likely they were on their way to his apartment to clean up evidence there when the police arrived. It would have been too suspicious to buy a new mop and his cleaning lady would have noticed if his mop was gone. With all the chaos of a murder investigation at her apartment a missing mop might go unoticed.

Even if you believe the prosecution timeline, the Postal Police arrived at 12:35. Amanda called Filomena at 12:08, almost a half hour earlier and passed on her concerns about Meredith. Why would Amanda be raising the alarm if she was still busy cleaning up evidence?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Simply repeating a claim does not prove that claim.

Give us an explanation, how does the position of the victims legs prove that a rape scene was staged?

And still, you have dodged the question someone has repeatedly asked you. Do you accept Meredith's body was moved, stripped and rearranged after her death or not?

 

[Fulcanelli]

IIRC They claimed to use towels that evening to stop the pipe. One might use a mop to clean up dirt that would be tracked on the floor afterwards. When they were seen with the mop, was it inside or outside?

Amanda and Raffaele never claimed to have retrieved a mop in order to clean up 'dirt', but to mop up spilled water.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Even if you believe the prosecution timeline, the Postal Police arrived at 12:35. Amanda called Filomena at 12:08, almost a half hour earlier and passed on her concerns about Meredith. Why would Amanda be raising the alarm if she was still busy cleaning up evidence?

Because it would still take them time to get there, time they could estimate. They'd pretty much finished everything by then anyway, it was only a matter of applying some last finishing touches.

 

[piktor]

This is a staged scene, no doubt

Simply repeating a claim does not prove that claim.

Give us an explanation, how does the position of the victims legs prove that a rape scene was staged?

Kestrel, you have to bear in mind that the torn bra was placed next to the underwear, next to the pants. This is a rape scene with the torn clothing off the victim in full display at the feet of the victim, aligned and improbably neat and conveniently displayed at the victim's feet. Lest the people watching the crime scene might be lost in a jungle of fathomless mystery.

It has been established that the pants, underwear and soxs were pulled off the victim post-mortem.

Now I will refer you to this photo and you tell me after pulling the underwear and pants off the victim, if one leg will pull itself up in the position it is or more likely would remain like the left leg which is perfectly straight:

http://i35.tinypic.com/v6t6qs.jpg

 

[tsig]

None of which proves the statement is not true. But at least you didn't succumb to making up an elaborate lie such as claiming that someone actually denied the event took place.

Those are however good points as to why the defense would not make the claim in court.




Your understanding is correct. The early press report was that the DNA was found on the tip. Presumably, Raffaele had seen this report before making the entry in his diary. I don't think we have been told exactly where the DNA was found but in at least one image of the knife you can see the long rubbing marks that Stefanoni refers to near the middle of the blade.




First of all, what is a lie? From wikipedia we can find: "To lie is to state something that one knows to be false or that one does not honestly believe to be true with the intention that a person will take it for the truth." Since we are only talking about something that Raffaele wrote in a private diary, there isn't a second party to be lied to.

When we find evidence that the statement was intended to be presented as a defense I'll look for evidence that supports or refutes it. Until then, it isn't even an issue.

Now you're trying to define facts out of existence.

 

[tsig]

From the evidence presented so far, it cannot be concluded whether the incident occurred or not. From reading the passages in Raffaele's diary, I believe that an incident similar to what he describes had happened. It could have been a different knife, it may not have been in his apartment and possibly did not even involve Meredith. But in the two days following the devastating news of the DNA found on the knife, Raffaele mind had constructed from this seed of a memory an imagined (or possibly dreamed) recreation of the event with the current cast. These two days were a period of high stress for Raffaele where a dream could become indistinguishable from a real memory.




Now you are lying. There is no evidence that says it didn't happen. Only a lack of evidence that says it did.

How can we believe anything they are saying if their memories are as flexible as you say?

 

[tsig]

Amanda and Raffaele never claimed to have retrieved a mop in order to clean up 'dirt', but to mop up spilled water.

At this point it seems the FOA don't care about facts or statements or anything else just "Poor little American girl caught in the throes of Italian incompetence and evil".

 

[Moss]

Are we to believe both Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are mentally fragile enough that a time of high stress leads to the fornation of false memories?