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What about this crop circle?

Therefore, people usually design the crop circles knowing roughly how long they will take to complete.
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Do they take into account work that must be done by hand? Rather time-consuming, I would imagine. Or are their calculations (and technique) all based on simple stomperboard work?

Are there any close-ups of "Alien Ship & script" Stray Cat? I want to see if there are any hand-made intricacies at the center of any of those circles.
 
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Limbo said:
I hear you but I don't believe. ;)
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Your choice. I'm not here to convert anyone.

Limbo said:
Yeah, I'm asking you to treat the claims of Doug and Dave as suspect and go from there.
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That would depend on if you are talking about what they actually said, or the crop circle researchers version of what they said, which wasn't actually what they said at all.

Limbo said:
So let me get this straight. You are saying that a stomperboard is not enough, that a circlemaker must do some work by hand?
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Their hands, their feet and even sometimes their bumps-a-daisies.
What is so surpising about this?

Limbo said:
So the overlays will all be the same width (that of the stomperboard length)?
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If they were using the method of stomping it with a board, they still wouldn't necessarily be the same width, no. If the angle of the board to the crop is slightly out, some bands may be different in width. But we are talking in generalisations here and speculation on which method they have used... More than one way to skin a cat an all that.
 
Alley Cat said:
But surely you are intelligent enough not to really believe that every crop circle is made in the dead of night with a flashlight and a stomper board?
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Not a good idea when you're being covert to use a flashlight. :)
 
Limbo said:
Do they take into account work that must be done by hand? Rather time-consuming, I would imagine. Or are their calculations (and technique) all based on simple stomperboard work?
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You may imagine... Isn't the imagination a wonderful thing.
Calculations are based upon experience of making lots of crop circles and building a database in the mind of how long they take, taking into account all the necessary information.

Limbo said:
Are there any close-ups of "Alien Ship & script" Stray Cat? I want to see if there are any intricacies at the center of any of those circles.
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I'm sure there are, try Googling "Milk Hill 2009 crop circle"
 
Stray Cat said:
You may imagine... Isn't the imagination a wonderful thing.
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You don't think things like that are time-consuming hard work?


Calculations are based upon experience of making lots of crop circles and building a database in the mind of how long they take, taking into account all the necessary information.
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How long do hand-made aspects take? One minute? Five minutes?
 
fuelair said:
The Spacechild's Mother Goose!! Wonderful when it came out in the 60's and wonderful when reissued in the last ten years or so!!!
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Yay! I knew there had to be a fan or two here besides me!


I don't know his motives or intentions either, but is his testimony atypical of circlemakers? Most circlemakers make paranormal claims, don't they?
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So what if they do? People who have hallucinations claim their visions are real, but that doesn't make them real.


As for your claim about researchers and photos, I can't address that. I've never been to a crop circle and watched researchers photograph a circle. But I have seen some impressive photos.

<multiple URLs snipped in the interest of saving space>
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Yes, those are impressive photos. So are photos of the Taj Mahal, the buildings on the Acropolis, Big Ben, Chartres Cathedral, and the Burj Khalifa. The Bayeux Tapestry, the British Crown Jewels, and Oriental carpets are also impressive. So what? Are you suggesting that the creation of any impressive man-made object involves some kind of "unconscious psi" power?


Limbo said:
I just get the feeling that skeptics who point to circlemakers as the solution to the mystery are very selective about what they hear from circlemakers.
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And your "feelings" are evidence of...?


Well, take the fifth photo from the top as an example. Can you point me to any circlemakers who describe doing such a thing? Or explain how to do it? All circlemakers seem to do is describe how to use a stomperboard. I've never heard one describe how to make something like photo 5. Can that be made with a stomperboard?

I've never heard of one demonstrating or explaining how to get a weave effect like in the last few photos. Can one create a weave effect with a stomperboard? Or do you need to do it by hand? Can you point me to a circlemaker who addresses this?
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So because the only technique you have ever heard of is the stomperboard, that is the only way crop circles could be created? Maybe if you got out more, you wouldn't be so devoted to woo.


So let me get this straight. You are saying that a stomperboard is not enough, that a circlemaker must do some work by hand?
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Um, they might do some work by hand. I don't believe there's any law against it, or that they would get drummed out of Crop Circlers International for doing work by hand. You know, that happens a lot - like when people are painting a house, they might use a sprayer to cover large flat areas, then a small brush to finish the trim. Again, my question to you is: so what? :rolleyes:
 
Elizabeth I said:
So because the only technique you have ever heard of is the stomperboard, that is the only way crop circles could be created?
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Well then someone should be able to provide some evidence of some other technique being used or even talked about somewhere. Just show me so I can take it into account.

Funny how all the circlemakers seem to overlook the same things when they demonstrate or explain how to do it? It's all just stomp-stomp-stomp with them, isn't it?
 
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Limbo said:
Well then someone should be able to provide some evidence of some other technique being used or even talked about somewhere.
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Why?

If you're the one making an extraordinary claim, the burden of proof is on you.

The fact that you are ignorant of the techniques used isn't any else's fault, is it?

ETA: Allow me to generalize. If you make the claim that it's impossible to do something by ordinary means, then it's up to YOU to prove that. It's not up to anyone else to show you the ordinary means by which that something was possible to do.

If your argument actually had evidence of what you think was the cause (ETs or paranormal activity), then maybe you wouldn't need to rely on such a weak argument as the argument from ignorance. (That is, the statement, "I don't know how something is done" is a statement of ignorance and can never prove that you do indeed know how something is done. Ignorance doesn't support any hypothesis.)
 
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Stray Cat said:
Perhaps there are more motives than the very narrow one you propose.
If bamboolzling ET fans was a primary reason, the complexity wouldn't have to be so great... The simple circles of the 80's were enough to do that.
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Shurely, but with modern graphics designs, and collitch kids that can't get a date on Saturday night, (or any other night), spoofing the public while drunk and inventive has its giggles.
 
Alley Cat said:
No. I've got better things to do.

But surely you are intelligent enough not to really believe that every crop circle is made in the dead of night with a flashlight and a stomper board?

Surely you can see, just by looking at examples shown below, that these are easily man made? Some, very easily made under difficult conditions.

How many examples do you need to see?
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L will need to see all of them.
And will question the last one seen.
Typical of the true believer.
 
Limbo said:
Well then someone should be able to provide some evidence of some other technique being used or even talked about somewhere. Just show me so I can take it into account.
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Can you give a non laughable reason why the humans making these circles would forget they have hands while making them??
 
Stray Cat said:
Perhaps there are more motives than the very narrow one you propose.
If bamboolzling ET fans was a primary reason, the complexity wouldn't have to be so great... The simple circles of the 80's were enough to do that.
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Wouldn't you consider the effect of the circles in the public media (that is, the "hoax" aspect) as party of the art-concept?

I think you're setting up a false dichotomy here. That is, if it's art, it can't also be a hoax. It's obviously they're treating themes that are common among those who believe we're being visited by aliens.

ETA: Consider for comparison, the performance art of Andy Kaufman. The wrestling stuff, the Tony Clifton stuff, the Fridays skit, etc. Hoaxes or art? Or maybe both?
 
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Limbo said:
Well, take the fifth photo from the top as an example.
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Excuse me? You think that is something that can only be explained by something "paranormal"? You think it is something that couldn't have been done by a human being with simple tools (or even their bare hands)?

You must be completely mystified by a basket, and I can't imagine what kind of an explanation you might come up with for a computer or a car.
 
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Example: Crop circle made by Greenpeace AND the farmer: http://www.greenpeace.org/international/photosvideos/photos/aerial-view-of-a-crop-circle-m

Example: Crop circle made by humans with knowledge of the farmer (he did not like it, but he found out about it): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tourists-300ft-design-appeared-overnight.html

How to make a crop circle (Wikihow): http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Crop-Circle

A farmer MAKING a crop circle: http://www.freedomslighthouse.com/2009/08/texas-farmer-uses-crop-circle-to-say-no.html

People arrested for making crop circles: http://www.nhne.com/newsflashes/nfcropcirclearrest.html


Aaand... how many aliens or alien artefacts have been in the mix yet?
 
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All those photos are interesting, but the alleged space aliens are nowhere to be seen. Where are they, and why aren't they in the photographs too?
 
Limbo said:
You don't think things like that are time-consuming hard work?
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Making crop circles is time consuming, hard work.... It's hardly going to happen that after a few hours of plotting out and stomping that someone is going to kneel down in the center of a circle and say "It's too much hard work to twist this bunch of stalks up and bend them over in a nice nest"

Limbo said:
How long do hand-made aspects take? One minute? Five minutes?
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A 'nest' can be formed in seconds. Try it in some long grass next time you get the opportunity.
 
Anyone posted this link yet?

http://www.circlevault.org/

People planning crop circles submit their design in password protected files prior to creating the circle, then can take credit for them later by supplying the password to the encrypted design. Allows them to pull the rug out from under people claiming "Oh that one has to be by aliens".
 
Limbo said:
You don't think things like that are time-consuming hard work?
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Why does that matter? Are humans incapable of hand-crafted things that are time-consuming and hard work?

Really--even compared to human technology, this is extremely low-tech stuff. You should at least find an example of something that can only be made in a high-end lab or better yet something that is unknown to human technology.

And even then I wouldn't leap to the space-aliens hypothesis to explain such things.
 
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