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Merged Skeptics vs. Knowers/Believers

OK, so you think that you saw something that you can't explain. And this made you "believe" what, exactly?
 
King of the Americas said:
Ducks- aren't equipped with 'star-like lights', and don't make right angle turns

Planets- are stationary points of light

Meteors- travel in straight lines

What else you got?
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See, here's the problem. No matter what mundane explanation anyone offers, your reply will simply be, "Nope, couldn't have been that." You're playing the same game as any other person who has seen something in the sky that they couldn't explain. We know of mundane explanations for things that appear to be exotic or outside of the experience of the observer.

It could have been a remote controlled airplane with an actual airliner behind it in the distance. When the toy plane banked at the same time it crossed in front of the airliner in your sightline, it presented an aspect to you that made it appear to be larger than expected. Is that the answer? I don't know. It's an answer that is mundane and until you can prove that it isn't the answer, it is more likely than physics defying aliens.

Either falsify all mundane explanations or provide evidence for the extraordinary one. We also know that perception can be fooled, so your perception is not evidence. Yes, that's right. I said that even your perception can be fooled.
 
RoboTimbo said:
Yes, that's right. I said that even your perception can be fooled.
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also a propensity to hallucinate can be bought on by brain trauma
have you ever been involved in a serious accident KotA, like perhaps a car crash ?
 
carlitos said:
OK, so you think that you saw something that you can't explain. And this made you "believe" what, exactly?
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I DID see objects perform maneuvers that would kill human pilots, which brought me to the conclusion that there is 'something' up there that isn't 'us'.

Sorry, but I can't be 'exact' as to what that was.
 
King of the Americas said:
I have no "proof" that I can offer 'you', here...

Admittedly, I have been tapping around your question about what I did to ensure my senses weren't fooled. I've done so, because regardless of how long or short that list is, someone will say, "Oh, you forget that it could have been a leaky retina. If you didn't have your eyes dilated then you didn't rule out everything..."

I have seen MANY different types of aircraft, from satellites, and the shuttle down to single engine craft, in all kinds of conditions. In less than ideal conditions or distances, I have been fooled before.

The event in question took place in 'ideal' conditions, at very close ranges.

IF it had been a human craft, I feel 90% confident I could have positively identified it.

These craft or 'objects' were unlike anything I've ever encountered, and could not rectify their maneuverability with ANY human piloted vehicle.

Such maneuvers would KILL a human pilot.

And when two of the objects 'joined together', to make a 4 fold larger version...this 'sealed the deal' for me.

When I take two balls of clay and combine them, I don't get a ball that looks 'twice' as big, it merely looks a little bigger.

I was under no stress at the time of the event, and my eye sight was not hindered by the environment, physical degradation, or chemical alteration.

We saw objects that were more capable than any human craft I'm familiar with.

That said, I'll concede that I am not privy to super-secret military stuff. It COULD have been an X-men creation, or something Bruce Wayne threw together.

My conclusion of non-human was led by the fact that 'we' aren't made to do what these craft accomplished.
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How do you "know" they were craft?
 
Just a hint, you should not be talking about logical fallacies, when you post an argument from incredulity like this:
If you can provide an explanation that 'fits' my description, I'll concede that it could well be what I saw.
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King of the Americas said:
I DID see objects perform maneuvers that would kill human pilots, which brought me to the conclusion that there is 'something' up there that isn't 'us'.

Sorry, but I can't be 'exact' as to what that was.
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OK, let me just see if I can summarize where you are coming from in my POV.

  • You think* that you saw objects perform maneuvers that would kill human pilots.
  • You can't think of a mundane explanation.
  • Therefore, there is "something" "up there" that isn't "us."
Is that right?

* I know that you know that you saw something. But, unless you recorded it on video, the only evidence is in your brain. Correct?

Also, see here.
 
RoboTimbo said:
It could have been a remote controlled airplane with an actual airliner behind it in the distance. When the toy plane banked at the same time it crossed in front of the airliner in your sightline, it presented an aspect to you that made it appear to be larger than expected. Is that the answer? I don't know. It's an answer that is mundane and until you can prove that it isn't the answer, it is more likely than physics defying aliens.

Either falsify all mundane explanations or provide evidence for the extraordinary one. We also know that perception can be fooled, so your perception is not evidence. Yes, that's right. I said that even your perception can be fooled.
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I've flown remote controlled planes, and seen hundreds of them, in all sizes and shapes. They aren't flown at night or in rural areas, and are noisy. These were not. Please refrain from suggesting I said anything about "aliens", as I've never said any such thing.

I have noted the difference(s) between the mundane, and what I saw. To date, NONE have been close. I'll happily compare the details of another explanation, if you'd provide one.

And INDEED, I am well aware that my perception isn't evidence, 'to you'.
 
King of the Americas said:
They aren't flown at night or in rural areas, and are noisy. These were not.
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please read this page on flying Remote controlled model aircraft at night and then say that
http://www.rcnightflying.com/nfreally.html
especially this part
One of the simplest (yet least elegant) solutions is to use chemical light sticks to light up the airplane. This has the advantages of being economical (light sticks are cheap), quick to set up, and they require no power source. Their disadvantages, however, include additional weight to the aircraft, disruption of the airflow over the aircraft surfaces (increasing drag and altering flight characteristics), and limited life span. Light sticks will not shed enough light on the aircraft to make the actual airframe visible in the sky, so all you will see will be the light sticks
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also, you have stated several times that you have no idea of the distances involved yet now are claiming it was in earshot distance of a remote controlled aircraft, so you are either lying then or lying now

clearly this doesn't prove it was a RC aircraft being flown at night, but what it does prove is that you'll happily discount anything that interferes in your "belief"
you have no objectivity, which makes even your anecdotal evidence completely worthless
 
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RoboTimbo said:
After you've reviewed it, tell me how it applies here. So, could it have been a model airplane under remote control with an actual airliner behind it?
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When you say: No matter what mundane explanation anyone offers, your reply will simply be, "Nope, couldn't have been that."

THIS is a strawman, because you're attacking something that isn't true.

IF you provide a mundane explanation 'that fits', I'll concede.

The objects in question made no noise, made 90 degree turns, and 'combined' with another object to form a massive version... Planes, full size or scale models DON'T do this.
 
The 'objects in queston' only exist in your brain. You do understand this, right? We have no evidence for these 'objects,' only your word.
 
King of the Americas said:
That sounds like a strawman fallacy...

If you can provide an explanation that 'fits' my description, I'll concede that it could well be what I saw.

To date, nothing I've researched or been presented is remotely close to what I saw.
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Hallucination.

While no one in the history of the planet has ever encountered an intelligent species with more advanced technology than ours, hallucinations are commonplace.

If you were to have some neurological disorder that causes you to hallucinate, it could also hinder your ability to properly evaluate what you experienced.

I'm not putting you down, only pointing out that there's a far more likely explanation.
 
King of the Americas said:
When you say: No matter what mundane explanation anyone offers, your reply will simply be, "Nope, couldn't have been that."

THIS is a strawman, because you're attacking something that isn't true.

IF you provide a mundane explanation 'that fits', I'll concede.

The objects in question made no noise, made 90 degree turns, and 'combined' with another object to form a massive version... Planes, full size or scale models DON'T do this.
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Which mundane explanations are you willing to entertain, keeping in mind you've acknowledged that people's perceptions can be fooled? If the answer is "none" you are tilting at windmills with your claim of strawman.

Would you like to hear about the Campeche UFOs?
 
King of the Americas said:
THIS is a strawman, because you're attacking something that isn't true.
.
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You have already proved that you will not accept any mundane explanation, even if someone came forward who was directly involved with what you claim you saw and explained it in perfectly rational terms you would discount it as fabricated, you are not the sort of person who can admit he was ever wrong about anything, even when people have proved you were wrong in other threads you never acknowledge them. You simply ignore their proof and then carry on making the same claims. How many times now have you made the claim about historians throughout history claiming they saw the same thing and how many times have I asked you to name one
I'm still waiting
:p
 
aggle-rithm said:
If you were to have some neurological disorder that causes you to hallucinate.
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I suggested that earlier, hallucinations are common in people who have survived a trauma. KotA by his own admission in another thread was in a serious car crash and severely injured

try getting him to acknowledge that
he won't
;)
 
King of the Americas said:
The objects in question made no noise, made 90 degree turns, and 'combined' with another object to form a massive version... Planes, full size or scale models DON'T do this.
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Are you sure? I found Googling at least 4 electrical models...

And there's always the mundane explanations:

- You are trolling.

- You are lying.

- You mistook a dream for a memory.
 
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