UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

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I wonder how many people who were on the fence have concluded UFOlogy is full of crap since Rramjet started posting?

The fringe dwellers will never be swayed by reason. How else is explained astrology, homeopaths, etc. For the love of Apollo, there still is in existence a Flat Earth Society they have a web page. As is Zoroastrianism, there are remnants of this mythology still around, not that christianity is any better. Then we have the kooks who look at UFOlogy as the new gods, our new saviors. Why do people believe weird things? Wishful thinking.
 
Why, yes. Yes, they did. That's how we know it may have been gods. And only a complete moron who was suggesting aliens might be responsible for this sighting would fail to consider gods as a plausible alternative explanation.

Delurk and chip in with my no doubt valued opinion.

I agree, Its Gods.
 
I agree, Its Gods.

<shrug> Got to be Gods. No other explanation makes so much sense.

So. Umm. Should we, like, sacrifice something or whatever? I don't know how this works.

If someone has to be thrown into the volcano, I just want to make it clear I'm not pure enough to be a fitting sacrifice, thanks.
 
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<shrug> Got to be Gods. No other explanation makes so much sense.

So. Umm. Should we, like, sacrifice something or whatever? I don't know how this works.

If someone has to be thrown into the volcano, I just want to make it clear I'm not pure enough to be a fitting sacrifice, thanks.

Yup. Its Gods. I used my razor sharp critical thinking skills. Il do a run through as Im sure there are many willing to learn from a master.

Candidates-Aliens in Ufos or Gods?

Aliens in Ufos refuted
Gods not refuted.

= Gods all the way.

I learnt that technique form footers on the bigfoot threads. Bear/bigfoot? cant prove it was a Bear? Gotta be a bigfoot then.
 
Sorry Rramjet, you haven't conclusively shown how anyone can accurately measure by eye a light source against a black sky and black sea to be able to tell how far away it was to be able to confirm it was the same blip that was on the radar.

Until you can do this, you can not say that there was any radar visual tie up.
I get a “heads up” from the radar controller who states, “I have a target: your 2:00 at 5 miles.” I look in that direction and I see a light in that exact position. Just a random coincidence? Yeah right!

Much of science is based on reasonable causal inference. Without it we would be struggling to explain very much at all about our world. Indeed our very existence is based on a causal inference. I think, therefore I am. But according to you, perhaps I am not (maybe you are brain in a vat being fed your experiences by some mad scientist – the underlying premise of The Matrix – or maybe you are but a figment of someone else’s imagination). But once you start down that path you quickly find there is no end to an infinite progression into oblivion.

The fringe dwellers will never be swayed by reason. How else is explained astrology, homeopaths, etc. For the love of Apollo, there still is in existence a Flat Earth Society they have a web page. As is Zoroastrianism, there are remnants of this mythology still around, not that christianity is any better. Then we have the kooks who look at UFOlogy as the new gods, our new saviors. Why do people believe weird things? Wishful thinking.
Ha! Some of your very own UFO debunkers now believe that UFOs ARE “the new gods” (or old ones…who knows…”gods” they say…). Perhaps you better talk to GeeMack. He is one of the strongest proponents of that hypothesis here – and he seems to have attracted quite a few followers to this new cult. But if that is his hypothesis, then let him demonstrate its veracity. The UFO debunkers have often talked about “shifting the burden of evidence”. Here is a prime example. If they truly believed what they say, then they would be able to show me the evidence.

But of course this is absolutely typical of the UFO debunker mindset. They simply cannot tell the difference between UFOs, astrology, homeopaths, Flat Earthers, the “gods” Christianity, and so on… for them it is all the same. For people who pretend to scepticism about all of these subjects, that they can concatenate them in such a manner, merely demonstrates how remarkably little they know about ANY of the subjects they pronounce judgement on!

This may be quite an incredible revelation to many, but to others it merely confirms a long held suspicion about UFO debunkers: “Don’t bother me with the evidence, my mind is made up”!

No-one who would pretend to the title of scholar or scientist, or researcher would concatenate these disparate elements of human belief systems. One might as easily correlate the problem gambler with the astrologer. Both have developed irrational belief systems, but they are of an entirely different character. To understand why each holds the particular belief systems they do, one must look at the historical context of how such beliefs developed. Each takes an entirely different path and the path to one cannot explain the path to the other. This applies to all the belief systems amb listed above. Each has its own set of beliefs and practices, its own rationale, its own raison d’etre. To talk about one is not to talk about the other: It is a nonsense to even suppose this might even be rationally possible. Yet here we have it, the UFO debunker concatenation of these topics.

If knowledge is power then let there be light… unfortunately however, it seems the dim witted rule the world.
 
No-one who would pretend to the title of scholar or scientist, or researcher would concatenate these disparate elements of human belief systems. .
I am only aware of one person here who pretended (lied) that they were a scientist, that was you,
btw you don't spell concentrate like that
:D
unfortunately however, it seems the dim witted rule the world.

I was not aware that you were in a position of authority Rroger, well done.
:p
 
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I protest. As an atheist, I can not accept the god hypothesis (GH).

I hereby subscribe to the fictional alien characters hypothesis (FACH). The evidence for at least some UFOs being manned, I mean, squidded by Zardalus is well documented and compelling. I can present evidence for Romulans, also, not to mention the Asgard, but that would be overkill.

So, bow before the FACH!
 
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Well, if you aren't going to be using yours, send her my way.
Sorry, they are all already aboard my luxurious mothership with me, fleeing towards the Pleiades.

But do not despair, I can send you Villas Boas' short platinum blonde with red armpit (yuck!) and pubic hairs. She's free for tonight, go figure. For a small price I can get you two aboard a Venusian scout ship or a saucer from the Planet Ummo.

Correa Neto, the pimp from beyond the borders of what we call nature (whatever that means).
 
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I get a “heads up” from the radar controller who states, “I have a target: your 2:00 at 5 miles.” I look in that direction and I see a light in that exact position. Just a random coincidence? Yeah right!

One of your problems in highlight.
An exact position require some way to determine range, and a very accurate bearing.
You have none of those from an aircraft window at night.

I am not the first one to point this out to you and guess you will ignore it again.
 
<snip>

If knowledge is power then let there be light… unfortunately however, it seems the dim witted rule the world.


Rramjet, why don't you have a bit of a look back through the thread?

Can you truly not see the research and technical skills, the creative power, imagination, and the awesome ability for cooperative effort that are on display here.

Your derogatory remarks seem to indicate that you cannot, and this inabilty to see where your arguments stand in relation to those presented in counterpoint to them is extremely embarrassing to you, if only you knew it.

Bridge --> Build --> Get over it
 
I get a “heads up” from the radar controller who states, “I have a target: your 2:00 at 5 miles.” I look in that direction and I see a light in that exact position. Just a random coincidence? Yeah right!

If there are numerous radar echos and numerous light sources. Why not? I'd also like to add that you don't have the "exact position" in 3D-space. You have a general direction and no way of estimating the distance to the light source.

Much of science is based on reasonable causal inference.
Maybe so, but you're claiming unreasonable casual inference based on incomplete data. You got wishful thinking, nothing else.

Ha! Some of your very own UFO debunkers now believe that UFOs ARE “the new gods” (or old ones…who knows…”gods” they say…). Perhaps you better talk to GeeMack. He is one of the strongest proponents of that hypothesis here – and he seems to have attracted quite a few followers to this new cult. But if that is his hypothesis, then let him demonstrate its veracity. The UFO debunkers have often talked about “shifting the burden of evidence”. Here is a prime example. If they truly believed what they say, then they would be able to show me the evidence.

Proving gods did it is trivial. I talked to Him and he told me in a vision that he did it.

But of course this is absolutely typical of the UFO debunker mindset. They simply cannot tell the difference between UFOs, astrology, homeopaths, Flat Earthers, the “gods” Christianity, and so on… for them it is all the same. For people who pretend to scepticism about all of these subjects, that they can concatenate them in such a manner, merely demonstrates how remarkably little they know about ANY of the subjects they pronounce judgement on!

They have one thing in common. They are all based on irrational beliefs for which there is no scientific evidence.

This may be quite an incredible revelation to many, but to others it merely confirms a long held suspicion about UFO debunkers: “Don’t bother me with the evidence, my mind is made up”!

Quite the opposite. Oh please, provide some evidence and stop it with the 3d-hand retellings of supposed witness accounts.
 
I get a “heads up” from the radar controller who states, “I have a target: your 2:00 at 5 miles.” I look in that direction and I see a light in that exact position. Just a random coincidence? Yeah right!
Sorry Rramjet, you haven't conclusively shown how anyone can accurately measure by eye a light source against a black sky and black sea to be able to tell how far away it was to be able to confirm it was the same blip that was on the radar.

Until you can do this, you can not say that there was any radar visual tie up.
 
Actually… Ireland’s article IS contained in one of Dr Maccabees reports – that you did NOT know that shows me that you have not even read Dr Maccabee’s reports! Huh! …and he does NOT make “a good case for it” at all, in the article he merely states that because he assumes there were SBs in the area, then that is what the cause was…
It is far more likely that Squid Boats were in the area than “alien craft”.
Yeah, of course…a random contact… the WATCC says, we have a target at X location. The pilot states yep, I see it at X location! Sure… that’s random! LOL.
How many contacts were reported? Are you stating all the contacts were alien craft or were a majority due to AP?
It must have, because the ministry has NO SB there at the time of the sighting!
I see. It must be because you don’t want it to be there. Can you produce the records to prove this?
So… given where the main squid fleet actually WAS… (130 nm EAST of Christchurch) then the boats mentioned MUST have been heading AWAY from the sighting area (from Wellington to go around the TOP of the South Island to get to the east coast…) and another fleet was located “110 nm South west of Christchurch” … but again, an “en route” boat MUST have been travelling away from the sighting area (NOT across Pegasus bay) in order to head in such a direction. Besides…”en route” boats don’t have their fishing lights on!

…and fishing singly? Where?

So a squid boat going from say Christchurch to the squid fleet would not cross Pegasus bay? As for the single fishing, why not Pegasus Bay? After all, we apparently have a record of one going to Pegasus bay to fish.

Huh? Who knows what Klass’ alleged Pegasus Bay boat might have been doing! IF there WAS such a boat, given that it was but a single boat, it was possibly testing its running gear… and it does not take two weeks to do that. Besides, Pegasus Bay squid fishing?

Why not? Do you think squid don’t go to Pegasus bay?

“Most squid are open-sea animals… (http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/octopus-and-squid/5) and “Most of the time squid will be found at least 1,000 feet below the surface.” (http://www.squid-world.com/squid-habitat.html)

So squid fishing in Pegasus Bay? Extremely unlikely!


Obviously you are unaware that Pegasus Bay has a feature called Pegasus Canyon. The contour lines show it to have a max depth of 1250 meters. However, it does not have to be 1,000 feet below the surface. According to this article, it is only 200m.

N. sloanii is found off the south-east coast of the North Island, off the west coast of the South Island and as far north as Cape Egmont on the west coast of the North Island (where it forms less than 10% of the arrow squid catch), off the east coast of the South Island, on the Chatham Rise and off the Snares and Auckland Islands: Fig. 5 (Smith 1985). Juveniles are most common between 50 and 100 m and show an increase in size with depth; adults are caught as deep as 500 m but greatest catches are made in water less than 200 m (Mattlin et al. 1985).

Arrow squids of the genjis Nototodarus in New Zealand waters: systematics, biology, and fisheries PJ Smith, RH Mattlin, MA Roeleveld, T Okutani New Zealand Journal of Marine and Freshwater Research, 1987, Vol. 21 P. 322

On page 323, there is a distribution chart of the type of squid in the waters. Not surprisingly, there are plenty of samples along the eastern coast of south island.

Therefore, your claim that it would be unlikely for a squid boat to be fishing in Pegasus bay has been shown to have no merit.

This puts paid to your “squidboat” hypothesis immediately! If Startup could NOT turn the plane to head toward the object (alleged SB), then either the squid boat was suddenly jet propelled and coincidently zoomed from its previously alleged (according to you, Klass, etc) “stationary” position, to stay away from the plane… or there was a moving object in the sky just as the plane’s radar and co-pilot visual and cameraman film confirmation shows!

Ireland’s diagram shows a different situation. Why would they arrive at different values? Is it because Maccabee may have a vested interest in the outcome (just like Gulf Breeze)? We are using values based on what the witnesses recall were the bearings and the radar signature. There is no hard data. Maccabee does not state where his data came from other than “interviews with witnesses” but it is my recollection that these were from interviews conducted months later, which would compound inaccuracies.

But the whole POINT is that there were reports of “UFO” activity from others! That is the precise reason WHY the reporter and camera crew were in the plane in the first place! Ughhh…

They were reported from a previous flight over a week before the event. It was very similar in that AP had a lot to do with those returns as well. That does not verify the events of that night. My question is why weren't any other ships, aircraft, fishermen, whatever reporting all of these exotic phenomena? Why is it only this plane with a TV camera crew aboard?
 
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I get a “heads up” from the radar controller who states, “I have a target: your 2:00 at 5 miles.” I look in that direction and I see a light in that exact position. Just a random coincidence? Yeah right!

As I previously pointed out, this kind of error has been made many times when it comes to "radar-visuals". Just because you see a light does not mean it is the same thing as the radar contact.

Much of science is based on reasonable causal inference. Without it we would be struggling to explain very much at all about our world. Indeed our very existence is based on a causal inference. I think, therefore I am. But according to you, perhaps I am not (maybe you are brain in a vat being fed your experiences by some mad scientist – the underlying premise of The Matrix – or maybe you are but a figment of someone else’s imagination). But once you start down that path you quickly find there is no end to an infinite progression into oblivion.

This from the man who only uses one source for all of his information and does not bother to look beyond what he wants to read. Go figure.

If knowledge is power then let there be light… unfortunately however, it seems the dim witted rule the world.

This from a self-proclaimed practicing scientist. Thanks for pontificating about your "superior intellect". Thank goodness the rest of the scientific community doesn't behave the way you do. Otherwise we would be believing in elves, fairies, ghosts, Nessie, Bigfoot, dragons, etc.
 
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