Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Fulcanelli]

Knox said she was hit, in court, under oath.

She was not 'under oath' Kestrel.

 

[Fulcanelli]

So are the Italian investigators overconfident of their abilities?

Hardly, they are simply trained, experienced professionals who know their jobs.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Actually, I wonder about that - the defense lawyers' being unhappy with contradictory expert testimony. Having two different scenarios as to how the murder occurred might be construed as undermining the prosecution's scenario more severely than just one. It might have been a deliberate effort to create reasonable doubt.

Only if their claims actually fit the evidence, which they don't.

 

[Fulcanelli]

It seems the police were the ones with such outlandish imaginations that they imagined someone might have screamed while being stabbed!

The obvious flaw in your absolute statement is that you are taking Amanda's word for it. I can say Mickey Mouse is my brother, it doesn't make it so. Her statement is not supported with any evidence and she has a broad history of lying.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Ah yes, that famous insider knowledge Knox had when she told everyone at the police station the body had been found stuffed into the closet with a foot sticking out. No wonder the police were suspicious when she made a statement of such stunning accuracy (or do we think Rudy really had stuffed the body in the closet at some point?)

That's actually a very close approximation of her position just before her body was moved.

 

[Fulcanelli]

In other words, you believe that anyone who lives at a house where someone is murdered is automatically guilty?



ETA: Or perhaps you are one of the people sucked in by the fake bloody bathroom photo.

I believe anyone who lives at a house where someone is murdered must automatically be a suspect. But I think you'll find most people believe her 'guilty', not because of where she lived, but because the evidence clearly shows she was.

Fake? How was it fake? Raffaele when he phoned the police said there was blood everywhere. And if you are referring to the PHENOLPHTHALEIN, that's 'real' blood that it's indicating.

 

[Fulcanelli]

From the new afterward to Douglas Preston’s book The Monster of Florence, pp. 325-326:

His afterword is full of mistakes and inaccuracies, it's common knowledge that the reporter he is quoting never made that statement to him and in any case, WHO gives a flying damn what Douglas Preston, high priest of the FOA, wrote???

 

[stilicho]

Maybe the police should have waited until the forensics came back and Mr. Lumumba's alibi could be checked before arresting him.

What a perfect solution to criminal behaviour! Eyewitnesses should be ignored until forensics results are returned. In your world, halides1, why would the police ever respond to 911 calls? Why would firefighters respond to them? Or paramedics?

Until the coroners, arson investigators, or laboratory personnel have finished their jobs, why do anything?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Maybe the police should have waited until the forensics came back and Mr. Lumumba's alibi could be checked before arresting him.

Sure, leave a violent sex murder running around free for several weeks, so he can kill more students.

Don't blame the police, blame the person who falsely accused him...three times.

 

[Dan O.]

Speaking of inside knowledge:(biblically)

I know that her body was moved after Guede had left

How do you reconcile the fact that Rudy Guede's DNA was found inside Meredith if Rudy had left before Meredith's pants were removed to stage a rape scene?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Confirming that Patrick wasn't a match for the bloody handprint found at the scene shouldn't have taken more than a day.

The hand print alone wouldn't have exonerated Patrick (just as it doesn't exonerate Amanda and Raffaele). The police suspected the involvement of multiple people. Rudy Giede only would have accounted for one of them.

Lumumba was locked up for two weeks. Immediately after his arrest, several college students came forward and said Lumumba was at his bar on the night of the murder. Even after Roman Mero vouched for Lumuba being at his bar, it took the prosecution a week to release Patrick. He wasn't formally cleared of the crime for six months

The reason, is because professor Mero made a mistake in his witness statement. It took a while to find the mistake, sine they had to check out his statement. They then had to go back to him about it where he finally cleared it up (his original statement made the mistake of being half an hour out). Moreover, the police had to wait for him...they had to fly him in from another country. That's why it all took so much time.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Speaking of inside knowledge:(biblically)




How do you reconcile the fact that Rudy Guede's DNA was found inside Meredith if Rudy had left before Meredith's pants were removed to stage a rape scene?

Because he stuck his hand down her pants?

 

[stilicho]

Confirming that Patrick wasn't a match for the bloody handprint found at the scene shouldn't have taken more than a day.

Lumumba was locked up for two weeks. Immediately after his arrest, several college students came forward and said Lumumba was at his bar on the night of the murder. Even after Roman Mero vouched for Lumuba being at his bar, it took the prosecution a week to release Patrick. He wasn't formally cleared of the crime for six months.

It's also interesting to note that the police claimed cell phone evidence proved Lumuba was in the vicinity of the cottage.

Mr Lumumba's alibi took some time to clear up and it wasn't only the forensics, Kestrel. There was frankly suspicious activity with his own phone and it wasn't just the ping in the vicinity of the cottage. There was also some issue with the phone itself. You probably know more about cell phones than I do but there was some sort of hardware or software modification that happened right on the morning after Meredith's murder.

There is a whole discussion on that in the first Haloscans on PMF. I don't understand it myself but there was evidently a lot of confusion. It also took more than one day to corroborate his alibis. One of those vouching for him had innocently left town. There were no receipts from his bar when he said he was there. You know, that real physical evidence that police look for in a murder investigation.

None of this would have transpired if AK hadn't told the police, three times, that Mr Lumumba murdered her roommate.

It's also the height of hypocrisy to understand that Mr Lumumba required an alibi, when we wasn't found at the entrance to his home with a corpse locked inside a room, but that AK and RS wouldn't need one. It's fun to blame the "stupid policemen" for everything that went wrong for Mr Lumumba but we all know that his arrest was due to the actions of one individual alone. Get that through your skull.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

substantially closed or not

What a perfect solution to criminal behaviour! Eyewitnesses should be ignored until forensics results are returned. In your world, halides1, why would the police ever respond to 911 calls? Why would firefighters respond to them? Or paramedics?

Until the coroners, arson investigators, or laboratory personnel have finished their jobs, why do anything?

It is situation-dependant whether a single uncorroborated witness should be enough to get someone arrested. Maybe the investigator who declared the case "substantially closed" was a bit premature, however.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Speaking of inside knowledge:(biblically)




How do you reconcile the fact that Rudy Guede's DNA was found inside Meredith if Rudy had left before Meredith's pants were removed to stage a rape scene?

Now, I'm a bit confused. I must have missed where it was established that it was a staged rape scene, as opposed to a true rape. I was under the impression that the sexual assault had happened shortly before (and/or during) the murder.

Is this another of your "ignore all evidence I don't like" scenarios or did I miss this part of the forensics results?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

It is situation-dependant whether a single uncorroborated witness should be enough to get someone arrested. Maybe the investigator who declared the case "substantially closed" was a bit premature, however.

Why? They thought they had a solid witness with AK.

Keep in mind that when AK became a suspect, it wasn't necessarily in the mind of the investigators that she was directly involved in the murder. Perhaps they figured she was merely present in the house and did nothing to stop Lumumba. Or that she was as guilty as he and simply trying to pin the blame on him.

Whichever, they figured that she and Lumumba were both involved, and since both were in custody - the case was nearly closed. In fact, it was.

They had at least 2 of the 3 murderers behind bars

 

[stilicho]

Because he stuck his hand down her pants?

Or imagining that.

For a collection of individuals committed to the concept of bizarre mental gymnastics (cartwheels?), AK's virulent supporters demonstrate a complete lack of imagination when it comes to simple things like this.

 

[Dan O.]

Fake? How was it fake? Raffaele when he phoned the police said there was blood everywhere. And if you are referring to the PHENOLPHTHALEIN, that's 'real' blood that it's indicating.

Read on your own web site about how the presumptive blood test works.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Why? They thought they had a solid witness with AK.

Keep in mind that when AK became a suspect, it wasn't necessarily in the mind of the investigators that she was directly involved in the murder. Perhaps they figured she was merely present in the house and did nothing to stop Lumumba. Or that she was as guilty as he and simply trying to pin the blame on him.

Whichever, they figured that she and Lumumba were both involved, and since both were in custody - the case was nearly closed. In fact, it was.

They had at least 2 of the 3 murderers behind bars

Indeed. The 'situation' was that there was a violent sex murder on the loose in a small town packed with vulnerable female students. In addition, the murderer could be destroying evidence or even making his escape from Perugia. They had to act fast.

Moreover, the police had taken hundreds of items from the cottage (and would later take more from from Raffaele's flat and Patrick's bar) for forensic testing and there was a major backlog at the lab. The results for all of the items would have taken weeks, possibly months to come in.

Moreover, under Italian law, due to Knox's eye witness accusation, Patrick Lumumba was an official 'suspect'. Also, under Italian law, when someone is made a Suspect it MUST be made public, the suspect must be informed and that status must later be approved by a judge who would then be obliged to publish their motivations. If they made him a suspect and didn't arrest him, he could potentially go on the rampage, destroy evidence, or flee the country. The sexual element to the crime, in the eyes of the Italian law, has a high potential for re-offending. It was a matter of public safety. The 'had' to arrest him.

Finally, it was not the police who ordered his arrest in any case, but Mignini.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Read on your own web site about how the presumptive blood test works.

I know how a presumptive blood test works!