Ancient Pyramids and other structures, astronomical alignment & similarity.

[Belz...]

I have posted many links to ancient artwork that features things flying around the Heaven well before the Wright Brothers flew at Kittyhawk.

Yet ancient stories of gods don't prove gods. Ancient time-travel stories don't prove time travel, etc.

 

[Dancing David]

I don't know how you can say that
it did win seven oscars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariots_of_Fire
perhaps you meant this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariots_of_the_Gods?

Da da da da da da, da da da da da daaa.

Ooops. I meant Sports Cars of the Gods.

 

[Dancing David]

See, YOU dismiss the credibility of evidence when it contradicts your conclusion...

I have posted many links to ancient artwork that features things flying around the Heaven well before the Wright Brothers flew at Kittyhawk.

Yeah so?

There are stele of humans flying. Others of Tlaloc and other imaginary things. Why I have seen a movies with Superman flying.

Your point is?

I get your context argument. really I do.

However, to dismiss EVERY historian that has recorded as best they could "gods in the heavens", throughout history as pure fiction is folly- IN MY OPINION.

To give credence to a summary without evidence is nore foolish. Do you know how big the galaxy is, and that you can't go faster that the speed of light? The math is daunting.

People have seen what I saw since we could carve on walls.

Yeah, I have seen dancing stars, an optical effect of eye motion. I have seen the space shuttle (awesome) many times, hundreds of satelites, a couple of auroras and Jupiter and Venus thousands of times.

None of which mean there have been a visit by space aliens.

Your retort is that, people have always had active imaginations, God is fictional.

THIS is my biggest disagreement with your conclusion. The artwork we've discussed features a something, based on the observation of a reality. Now, I'll concede that not ALL such images are exactly accurate or that EVERY single depiction of God was based on first hand observations.

And they also show pictures of centaurs and satyrs.

That said, because of my personal experiences, I see such images in a very different light than you do. I only wish for you an experience that forces you to reconsider your present conclusions, in regards to non-human piloted u.f.o.'s and their presence in our historical record.

I have had those experiences, maybe you should describe it.

 

[Dancing David]

It was again, my bad...

Although I think it was more accurate than "Chariots of the Gods", given that I don't ascribe a capital "G" to the term "god"...

Having never seen a "chariot of fire" up close, the term is just as inter-changeable as "u.f.o.", although "object of light" would seem even more accurate.

Uh, and having seen the space shuttle and ISS many times, they look awesome.

A friend of mine describes seeing the setting son reflect off of helicopter rotors while they were doing a rescue search on a mountain. Flashing lights (not red and blue) with search lights spearing down over the mountainside, he said it looked like it was space ships searching.

There is a place near St. Louis on the highway (about seventy miles away) where you can see the nose light on the jets taking off, they rise sort of turn and then disappear.

Sightings of UFOs are directly related to the brightness of Venus and its acension above the horizon.

Do not assume extra mundane, when mundane will do.

 

[EHocking]

It was again, my bad...

Although I think it was more accurate than "Chariots of the Gods", given that I don't ascribe a capital "G" to the term "god"...

Having never seen a "chariot of fire" up close, the term is just as inter-changeable as "u.f.o.", although "object of light" would seem even more accurate.

Even today, with access to global communications, websites from NASA and other astronomical and meteorological scientists as well as Google or Wik - ignorant people still ascribe the supernatural to meteorological phenomena such as comets, metoers, sun dogs, eclipses etc that they have never seen before and have no personal (let alone scientific) explanation for. This does not mean that these phenomena are unexplainable, merely that the observer couldn't explain it.

Now imagine how ignorant the general public was 100s or 1000s of years ago. Same phenomena, even less explanation for it. Consider also that religions have shown that they are quite willing to exploit such "unexplainable" phenomena for there own purposes, even now the Roman Catholic church support the idea of miracles for their own purposes.

Ages ago, you might have overheard a conversation something like this,

Rube: Wow, did you see the fireball that shot across the sky last night Oh Great and Holy Priest?
OGaHP: You mean the Flaming Chariot of God streaking across the Heavens?
Rube: Chariot?
OGaHP: Only those unworthy would not have been able to see the Flaming Chariot of God.
Rube: Oh, THAT chariot. The two wheeled one.
OGaHP: Three wheeled...
Rube: Oh, right, yes, three wheeled chariot, pulled by four horse...
OGaHP: Two horses
Rube: Right, right, TWO jet black horses.... I remember now, and...
OGaHP: Golden horses.
Rube: Yes, yes, two golden horses pulling a golden chariot
OGaHP: FLAMING, golden chariot
Rube: Of course, of course - goes without saying it was a FLAMING, golden chariot that would be carrying God.
OGaHP: ... and his angels
Rube: Angels, right. God was so big I missed them standing behin...
OGaHP: ... on either...
Rube: ... on either side of god. Holding their flaming, er.....spears?
OGaHP: ...swords..
Rube: Right, flaminnnng..
OGaHP: yes...
Rube: flaming swords of righteousness.
OGaHP: You are blessed my child.
Rube: Should I go out and sacrifice a goat to our god?
OGaHP: Oh, coin is fine. Just leave it with me and I'll make sure god gets it.
Rube: Riiighhhttt, would 10 be
OGaHP: 20 would be more righteous
Rube: 20. Ooookayyy...
OGaHP: And don't forget, the church is tax deductible, so when the soldiers come for your first born son, you can defer that until next year.

 

[Correa Neto]

...snip...However, to dismiss EVERY historian that has recorded as best they could "gods in the heavens", throughout history as pure fiction is folly- IN MY OPINION.

People have seen what I saw since we could carve on walls.

Your retort is that, people have always had active imaginations, God is fictional.

KotA, what you have you seen? The description matches with which "gods in the heavens"?
Sol Invictus' quadringa?
Helios's fiery chariot with fire-breathing horses?
Surya's chariot woth seven horses?
The Sun Barge?
A pillar of fire?
A pillar of clouds?
A giant cross in the sky?
[add deity or deity's manifestation here]

If I recall correctly the description of your sighting, none of the above would qualify. Thus, your statement "People have seen what I saw since we could carve on walls" is inexact, incorrect, unless you can present an example matching your sighting.

THIS is my biggest disagreement with your conclusion. The artwork we've discussed features a something, based on the observation of a reality. Now, I'll concede that not ALL such images are exactly accurate or that EVERY single depiction of God was based on first hand observations.

Which ones? What are the most faithful ones? What set of criteria you used to select them?

What you are making is to selectively look at arts and myths to back your belief. I will try to resist the temptation of saying you are twisting, cherry-picking details or interpreting arts and myths outside their original context, completely loosing their intended meanings and uses. I'll say, however, that myths are curious things... They can provide some answers for those who search them; the problem is that myths and art quite often will return as answer a reflection of the seeker's question and tell you what you want to hear- the answer you already knew. Seek psychological analogies and you'll find them, seek morality lessons and you'll find them, seek support for the status quo and you'll find it, seek reasons to destroy the status quo and you'll find them. Seek non-human technological entities piloting spacecraft and you'll find them, be them from another planet, another universe or from this very planet.

Read Campbell before venturing through this path.

That said, because of my personal experiences, I see such images in a very different light than you do. I only wish for you an experience that forces you to reconsider your present conclusions, in regards to non-human piloted u.f.o.'s and their presence in our historical record.

I've seen UFOs and yes, some (not me) would label them as non-human craft. You can find descriptions of my sightings through the search engine (hopefully). None of these experiences, nowadays, survive detailed impersonal scrutiny.

At the philosophy section you will find lots of discussions regarding the importance and uses of personal experiences. By now you should know skeptics rely on something more robust.

 

[King of the Americas]

Even today, with access to global communications, websites from NASA and other astronomical and meteorological scientists as well as Google or Wik - ignorant people still ascribe the supernatural to meteorological phenomena such as comets, metoers, sun dogs, eclipses etc that they have never seen before and have no personal (let alone scientific) explanation for. This does not mean that these phenomena are unexplainable, merely that the observer couldn't explain it.

Now imagine how ignorant the general public was 100s or 1000s of years ago. Same phenomena, even less explanation for it. Consider also that religions have shown that they are quite willing to exploit such "unexplainable" phenomena for there own purposes, even now the Roman Catholic church support the idea of miracles for their own purposes.
.

The first guy to visit the real bottom of the ocean, did so in a cast iron diving bell, with only a singular port window.

Upon his return, he 'reported' seeing strange 'lights'...

People IGNORED these findings, suggesting that the pressure got to him, and that no such things really exist.

I am an amateur astronomer, meaning that I spend more time than I should behind a pair of tripod mounted binoculars. And while I am NOT perfect in my ability to identify everything I see, I can tell the different between a a plane and a falling star.

To IGNORE findings from someone simply because they don't 'match' what is present known to exist is indeed "ignorance", but it's yours to own, Sir.

But when someone sees a stealth bomber, and 'mistakes' it for a u.f.o., that's not "ignorance", that's just being ill-informed.

That said, I'd like to entreat you to find and read my posts about my sighting, and the details I provided. If you can present a natural or common explanation, that accounts for what I saw, I'd really appreciate it. Because at present the only thing I know about what I saw was that it flew about the Heavens and demonstrated ability beyond that of human fight capability.

Until then I'd appreciate it if you would cease tossing the word "ignorant" about, as it doesn't fit here.

 

[King of the Americas]

Socrates had people like you in mind when he said
"I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance."

First, don't suggest what someone else was 'about to say'. That's speculation.

Second, you offered alternative explanations for 'several' ancient depictions and historical accounts of questionable or debatable data, and what was 'really' meant by the original author(s). Indeed I recall conceding to several of them. But by NO MEANS what so ever am I prepared to write "god" off as fiction. Regardless of the form it takes, has taken, or will take in future forms of media. REPEATEDLY, throughout time and the world, authors, artists, and the like have portrayed "something better than man that exists or resides on high, or in the heaves/sky"... *What I saw 'changed' before my eyes, so to conclude that "god" can only be one thing is the first mistake you make. To dismiss historical fact as fiction is folly.

Third, when you are faced with facts that break your understanding of what is possible, you'll be forced to change your perspective. Which in this case, is everything.

Ignorance will get you nowhere.

 

[King of the Americas]

Yeah so?

There are stele of humans flying. Others of Tlaloc and other imaginary things. Why I have seen a movies with Superman flying.

Your point is?

To give credence to a summary without evidence is nore foolish. Do you know how big the galaxy is, and that you can't go faster that the speed of light? The math is daunting.

Yeah, I have seen dancing stars, an optical effect of eye motion. I have seen the space shuttle (awesome) many times, hundreds of satelites, a couple of auroras and Jupiter and Venus thousands of times.

None of which mean there have been a visit by space aliens.


And they also show pictures of centaurs and satyrs.


I have had those experiences, maybe you should describe it.

Isn't there a sculpture of a jet, that they made into a larger version, and it flew? They found it in an Egyptian tomb:

http://www.ceticismoaberto.com/imagens2/jato1.jpg

*I do not ascribe to the belief in "aliens" so please stop inferring that I do.

 

[King of the Americas]

Uh, and having seen the space shuttle and ISS many times, they look awesome.

A friend of mine describes seeing the setting son reflect off of helicopter rotors while they were doing a rescue search on a mountain. Flashing lights (not red and blue) with search lights spearing down over the mountainside, he said it looked like it was space ships searching.

There is a place near St. Louis on the highway (about seventy miles away) where you can see the nose light on the jets taking off, they rise sort of turn and then disappear.

Sightings of UFOs are directly related to the brightness of Venus and its acension above the horizon.

Do not assume extra mundane, when mundane will do.

I've seen the shuttle re-enter both successfully and unsuccessfully...sadly.

I've also seen two "star-like" objects meld together and make a 4 fold larger version of themselves and then split apart again.

These are all VERY different events, with very different attributes and features.

 

[Marduk]

The first guy to visit the real bottom of the ocean, did so in a cast iron diving bell, with only a singular port window.

Upon his return, he 'reported' seeing strange 'lights'...

People IGNORED these findings, suggesting that the pressure got to him, and that no such things really exist.

lol amusing, this report seems based on Alexander the Greats descent in 332 BC in "a very fine barrel made entirely of white glass" with two companions who were stunned by what they saw by the bright lights emanating from the diving machine. Alexander is quoted as observing, from what he had seen underwater, that "...the world is damned and lost. The large and powerful fish devour the small fry."

so do you have a credible reference to your claim ?
or did you perhaps get your version from the TV show UFO files, episode : Deep Sea UFOs which reported the event in the fabricated manner you just recounted

 

[Marduk]

First, don't suggest what someone else was 'about to say'. That's speculation.

Second, you offered alternative explanations for 'several' ancient depictions and historical accounts of questionable or debatable data, and what was 'really' meant by the original author(s). Indeed I recall conceding to several of them. But by NO MEANS what so ever am I prepared to write "god" off as fiction. Regardless of the form it takes, has taken, or will take in future forms of media. REPEATEDLY, throughout time and the world, authors, artists, and the like have portrayed "something better than man that exists or resides on high, or in the heaves/sky"... *What I saw 'changed' before my eyes, so to conclude that "god" can only be one thing is the first mistake you make. To dismiss historical fact as fiction is folly.

Third, when you are faced with facts that break your understanding of what is possible, you'll be forced to change your perspective. Which in this case, is everything.

Ignorance will get you nowhere.

ok so let me get this straight, you won't write God off as fiction and its not you but me who's ignorant
right

 

[Akhenaten]

The first guy to visit the real bottom of the ocean . . .

Which is where, exactly?

. . . did so in a cast iron diving bell, with only a singular port window.

You want a little wager on that?

Upon his return, he 'reported' seeing strange 'lights'...

Why is 'lights' in quotes?

People IGNORED these findings, suggesting that the pressure got to him, and that no such things really exist.

Drivel.

What was this little not-quite-a-story meant to explain, BTW?

I am an amateur astronomer, meaning that I spend more time than I should behind a pair of tripod mounted binoculars. And while I am NOT perfect in my ability to identify everything I see, I can tell the different between a a plane and a falling star.

A two-year-old can do that with just her eyes. And won't make up alien stories.

Double winner.

To IGNORE findings from someone simply because they don't 'match' what is present known to exist is indeed "ignorance", but it's yours to own, Sir. common sense.

FTFY

But when someone sees a stealth bomber, and 'mistakes' it for a u.f.o., that's not "ignorance", that's just being ill-informed.

If someone sees a stealth bomber, but they don't recognise it as such, then it is , by definition, a UFO. It doesn't suddenly become an alien spaceship.

And it's neither ignorance or being ill-informed. It's just being unable to make an identification.

That said, I'd like to entreat you to find and read my posts about my sighting, and the details I provided. If you can present a natural or common explanation, that accounts for what I saw, I'd really appreciate it. Because at present the only thing I know about what I saw was that it flew about the Heavens and demonstrated ability beyond that of human fight capability.

Any idea what this thread is about? Check the title and then take your UFO garbage elsewhere.

Until then I'd appreciate it if you would cease tossing the word "ignorant" about, as it doesn't fit here.

You appear to be ignorant of the thread topic.

 

[King of the Americas]

I've seen UFOs and yes, some (not me) would label them as non-human craft. You can find descriptions of my sightings through the search engine (hopefully). None of these experiences, nowadays, survive detailed impersonal scrutiny.

At the philosophy section you will find lots of discussions regarding the importance and uses of personal experiences. By now you should know skeptics rely on something more robust.

Indeed skeptics claim that out of the literally billions of references, pictures, videos, paintings, carvings, or sworn statements by eyewitnesses "ZERO" are authentic proof that non-human piloted craft exist.

When did skeptical become outright ignorance?

 

[Akhenaten]

Isn't there a sculpture of a jet, that they made into a larger version, and it flew? They found it in an Egyptian tomb:

*I do not ascribe to the belief in "aliens" so please stop inferring that I do.

I don't care what beliefs you ascribe to, but your posts are complete rubbish.

No more answers for you. I'm afraid. Enjoy your ignorance.

 

[King of the Americas]

ok so let me get this straight, you won't write God off as fiction and its not you but me who's ignorant
right

Wait.

"God" is fictional...spawned from "gods"...

The better became omni...I don't ascribe to a capital lettered "God"-the omni-potent super being that can do everything or destroy the universe at his/her whim.

What I promote instead is that we've misinterpreted and "added to the legend" over time.

Michael Jordan couldn't really 'float or fly', even if we have images and video of him seeming to do just that.

There's a reality behind the various histories' "God/god/heavenly agents"...it's just not what it's been made out to be.

 

[King of the Americas]

I don't care what beliefs you ascribe to, but your posts are complete rubbish.

No more answers for you. I'm afraid. Enjoy your ignorance.

:O

???

What about that picture was rubbish?

Keep your answers, they were probably sour anyways!

 

[King of the Americas]

Which is where, exactly?



You appear to be ignorant of the thread topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Trench

Agreed.

 

[King of the Americas]

lol amusing, this report seems based on Alexander the Greats descent in 332 BC in "a very fine barrel made entirely of white glass" with two companions who were stunned by what they saw by the bright lights emanating from the diving machine. Alexander is quoted as observing, from what he had seen underwater, that "...the world is damned and lost. The large and powerful fish devour the small fry."

so do you have a credible reference to your claim ?
or did you perhaps get your version from the TV show UFO files, episode : Deep Sea UFOs which reported the event in the fabricated manner you just recounted

Wait...

These explorers saw REAL illumination... Several, hell LOTS of deep sea fish have developed 'lights':

http://www.extremescience.com/deepcreat.htm

 

[Correa Neto]

Indeed skeptics claim that out of the literally billions of references, pictures, videos, paintings, carvings, or sworn statements by eyewitnesses "ZERO" are authentic proof that non-human piloted craft exist.

When did skeptical become outright ignorance?

For the believers, it was as soon as their beliefs were challenged and shown to rest on shaky foundations.

Now, care to explain how the lights you claim to have seen can be correlated with ancient sky gods? And exactly with which god? And which ancient artworks can be correlated to your sighting? Don't forget to add the criteria you used.

And at last but not least, my mandatory reminder for those who seek in myths backing for their beliefs:

What you are making is to selectively look at arts and myths to back your belief. I will try to resist the temptation of saying you are twisting, cherry-picking details or interpreting arts and myths outside their original context, completely loosing their intended meanings and uses. I'll say, however, that myths are curious things... They can provide some answers for those who search them; the problem is that myths and art quite often will return as answer a reflection of the seeker's question and tell you what you want to hear- the answer you already knew. Seek psychological analogies and you'll find them, seek morality lessons and you'll find them, seek support for the status quo and you'll find it, seek reasons to destroy the status quo and you'll find them. Seek non-human technological entities piloting spacecraft and you'll find them, be them from another planet, another universe or from this very planet.

Read Campbell before venturing through this path.

To sum up- ignorance is what's driving your conclusions.