Haitian earthquake was used as an excuse for US invasion

[perseus]

US Military's Haiti "Relief" Ops A Rehearsal For Troop Deployments in Latin America

When the U.S. sent thousands of troops into Port au Prince airport, earthquake relief was clearly not the primary mission. Otherwise, ships and whole military units would not have arrived with only supplies for themselves.

"U.S. naval units sailed into Haitian waters without bothering to load up with food, water and medicine at the nearby U.S. base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba."

Edited by Gaspode: 

Breach of Rule 4 removed. Text copied from http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q...ops-rehearsal-troop-deployments-latin-america

Please don't copy large sections of text from a copyrighted source. As a guideline, quote a paragraph or two and provide a link to the original.

www.BlackAgendaReport.com

 

[aggle-rithm]

US Military's Haiti "Relief" Ops A Rehearsal For Troop Deployments in Latin America



www.BlackAgendaReport.com

Black Agenda Report?

THAT sounds unbiased.

 

[Pardalis]

It kind of contradicts the OP's and Jihad's contention that the invasion was to take control of Haïti's resources (if there are any).

Now it's a rehearsal for something else entirely.

Just look at that last paragraph Perseus quoted from the article:

I don't buy into speculation that the Americans were attempting to worsen the Haitian situation through deliberate delays, in order to justify taking over the country. It was clear from the first day that the earthquake was a visitation from hell that would create more than enough drama than the U.S. would ever need - and besides, the Americans and their minions were already in charge of Haiti. But the Americans' actions make perfect sense when understood as an air and naval exercise to test the capabilities of the U.S. Southern Command to move its own men and machines from one place to another, quickly.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Perseus is claiming that the USA aid to Haiti is some sort of imperialistic takeover and should be slowed or stopped. But if the USA did just that, he'd be claiming the racist evil USA just doesn't care enough to save poor Black people.

Actually, he tried to complain about it being slow to start, so... I don't know what his point actually was.

It kind of contradicts the OP's and Jihad's contention that the invasion was to take control of Haïti's resources (if there are any).

perseus doesn't care. The posting of that second article tells me two things about perseus:

1. He's just looking for something to validate this paranoid feeling of his that the United States' presence in Haiti is a bad thing. He doesn't actually care what the ultimate reasons for that presence might be, as long they allow him to keep believing that presence is nefarious in some way.
2. He was actually convinced that Haiti has nothing the United States wants, making an invasion utterly ridiculous, so he decided to try a different angle.

Really, though... even #2 boils down to #1. "America is evil, and this thing they're doing must also be evil. It must!"

 

[perseus]

I have already made my view clear, please don't use straw men. I am not saying American aid is a bad thing providing it is accompanied with an appropriate amount of security not 10,000+ troops! In fact due to it's proximity it is inevitable that the majority of aid will have to come from America if at all! That last link is clear as well, the troops themselves absorb the capacity of the airport.

Prove you point with facts. All I've heard so far is some lame excuse that America isn't interested in poor countries of Latin America. Why were they interested in Vietnam in that case? to prevent left wing political revolution spreading (domino effect) that's why. The US has had their fingerprints all over Latin America for a century at least, don't make me quote the Chilean episode, it sickens me.

Let's get down to some solid facts. Could anyone explain why they could not drop supplies at least by helicopter earlier, then I may be convinced this is not an invasion.

It is only about 225 miles from Guantamano to Port au Price, so it could almost be done directly by the following day if they load overnight depending on what they have there.

Why could helicopters just not pick stuff up from the airport and distribute it around the perimeter of the city if they thought they were going to be rushed?

A lot of people have died and lost limbs from infection, you could drop a box of first aid without being rushed, surely? I know the hospitals were short of supplies and almost anyone could apply some basic first aid.

Why were the aid workers and reporters not being mobbed for food and money if it was so dangerous?

On Monday, six days after the earthquake in Haiti, the US Southern Command finally began to drop bottled water and food from an air force C-17. US defence secretary Robert Gates had previously rejected such a method because of "security concerns".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/20/haiti-water-us-occupation

Here's a bit of stick for the UN providing you don't let the video go on for too long!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyGAgW2psn0

 

[Pardalis]

I am not saying American aid is a bad thing providing it is accompanied with an appropriate amount of security not 10,000+ troops!

What is an appropriate amount of security?

Could anyone not explain why they could not drop supplies by helicopter earlier,

Chaos, stampedes, everyone for himself brouhaha, etc.

If you drop it from the air, and don't have anyone on the ground making sure the weak get their share and not criminal gangs stealing the loot for themselves then you are not quite helping the population.

They are probably doing it now because help has already arrived, it's already there and is somewhat organized, stable and secured there (thanks to US, Canadian and MINUSTAH armies, btw).

 

[Pardalis]

Why were the aid workers and reporters not being mobbed for food and money if it was so dangerous?

They has been concerns for security

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/16/haiti.abandoned.patients/index.htm

"You have to install discipline. ... This is the only way for food to trickle down to everybody," said Montouroy.
In recent weeks, some food handouts turned unruly and violent, with mobs of hungry, desperate quake survivors overwhelming aid workers and their U.N. peacekeeper escorts.
In some cases, U.N. troops have used tear gas and Mace spray and fired warning shots to try to restore order, but without proper control, aid workers say children, the sick and elderly often miss out on getting the help they need.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/01/31/world/international-uk-quake-haiti.html

Nah, it's not big enough, I'll repeat that last part in red just to make sure you read it, perseus:

"but without proper control, aid workers say children, the sick and elderly often miss out on getting the help they need."



An orphanage attacked by armed men: http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/21/haiti.orphanages.attacks/index.html

Here's a report of the Belgian B-Fast relief group being attacked: http://www.rtbf.be/info/monde/haiti/haiti-la-course-contre-la-montre-course-contre-la-mort-178355

L'équipe de B-Fast a été la cible d'attaques cette nuit, les équipes ont dû quitter leur base pour se replier sur l'aéroport. Pour Steven Vanackere, "il n'est pas exclu que l'équipe ou une partie de l'équipe soit rapatriée". La décision sera prise dans les prochaines heures.

loose translation of the bolded part: The B-Fast team has been the target of attacks last night, and the teams had to leave their base to retreat to the airport.


I'm not saying this is widespread, but it is happening, and the many aid groups and international organization demand more troops:

Despite the arrival of more than 2,200 US Marines aboard the amphibious ship USS Bataan, the massive international relief effort was still failing to bring security and alleviate the despair of a wretched populace.Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon requested 3,500 more troops and police for the battered UN mission that was trying to bring stability to the dysfunctional Caribbean state even before disaster struck.
[...]
The Red Cross warned that violence by desperate Haitians was growing, though Lieutenant-General Ken Keen, the top US officer on the ground, insisted: "The level of violence we see now is below pre-earthquake levels."

UN agencies said field hospitals and food distribution had multiplied in and around the capital, where the quake wrought huge destruction.

UN chief seeks 3,500 reinforcements for UN mission in Haiti "Prices for food and transport have skyrocketed since last Tuesday and incidents of violence and looting are on the rise as the desperation grows," the International Committee of the Red Cross said in a statement.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/6692813/red-cross-fears-haiti-quake-strife/

 

[Pardalis]

I've never seen Perseus or Jihad Jane respond to any of my posts in all threads relating to this subject, so I expect the last one will also fall on deaf ears.

Such is life.

 

[Travis]

I have already made my view clear, please don't use straw men. I am not saying American aid is a bad thing providing it is accompanied with an appropriate amount of security not 10,000+ troops!

You do realize that only a small fraction of those 10,000 troops are combat units? The vast majority of them are there for particular aid related missions. For example: combat engineers to clear streets, medics to staff triage units, airport cargo handling units, airlift coordinators, helicopter units and their associated support teams, cargo truck hauling units, cargo truck mechanics, Navy construction units to reopen the port and of course staff to run the whole show from the scene.

Prove you point with facts. All I've heard so far is some lame excuse that America isn't interested in poor countries of Latin America.

America is interested, just not in invading anyplace there. Despite the lies you hear America only invades countries that are: threats to itself, threats to allies or threats to their own people.

Why were they interested in Vietnam in that case? to prevent left wing political revolution spreading (domino effect) that's why.

South Vietnam was an ally and the US has an obligation to defend allies from invasion (in that case by North Vietnam).

The US has had their fingerprints all over Latin America for a century at least, don't make me quote the Chilean episode, it sickens me.

No, no. Please do. I'd love to hear this since the US had almost nothing to do with anything that happened in Chile! Just because some ignorant schmuck on campus says the coup was lead by the CIA doesn't mean it actually was.

Let's get down to some solid facts. Could anyone explain why they could not drop supplies at least by helicopter earlier, then I may be convinced this is not an invasion.

Helicopters have limited range. Especially if they are loaded with cargo. They need to be delivered in some way and in this case they had to be delivered by aircraft carriers and amphibious assault ships that sailed from Norfolk, Virginia.

It is only about 225 miles from Guantamano to Port au Price, so it could almost be done directly by the following day if they load overnight depending on what they have there.

Guantanamo only has a security garrison. It has no organic airlift units or spare troops that could have participated in any meaningful way.

Why could helicopters just not pick stuff up from the airport and distribute it around the perimeter of the city if they thought they were going to be rushed?

Once the helicopters arrived via ship that's exactly what they did.

A lot of people have died and lost limbs from infection, you could drop a box of first aid without being rushed, surely? I know the hospitals were short of supplies and almost anyone could apply some basic first aid.

Um, no. Infections are usually the result of basic first aid being applied in unsterile environments. Combating those infections will require doctors giving precise amounts of particular antibiotics in a sterile environment. Preventing those infections would require the establishment of isolated trauma units which are now there thanks to the onboard hospitals in the amphibious assault ships and the USNS Comfort.

Your idea of just dropping antibiotics willy nilly and hoping that the right people use it in a safe way is reckless and would kill people.

Why were the aid workers and reporters not being mobbed for food and money if it was so dangerous?

Sometimes they were. Did you not catch the footage of police driving off mobs from distribution depots?

 

[Rogue1stclass]

Cold War's been over for 20 years now, folks.

And we already have like 2 territories in the Caribean. Do we really need a charity case half island?

 

[perseus]

Travis

Thanks for bothering to respond in such a detailed way. I still think you are getting biased information though. Do you wish to do a bit of research and remove the bit about Chile, or else you will end up looking silly and bring the reliability of everything else you just wrote into question?

No, no. Please do. I'd love to hear this since the US had almost nothing to do with anything that happened in Chile! Just because some ignorant schmuck on campus says the coup was lead by the CIA doesn't mean it actually was.

 

[Pardalis]

I've never seen Perseus or Jihad Jane respond to any of my posts in all threads relating to this subject, so I expect the last one will also fall on deaf ears.

Such is life.

Boy pardalis, you really saw it coming a mile away. You must have precognitive gifts.

 

[Pardalis]

Boy pardalis, you really saw it coming a mile away. You must have precognitive gifts.

Nah, it was pretty obvious he wouldn't actually respond to facts, but thanks for the encouragement.

Cheers.

 

[Harpo]

Boy pardalis, you really saw it coming a mile away. You must have precognitive gifts.

Your chance to win the million dollar prize ??

 

[perseus]

pardalis,

Yes, it isn't difficult to find instances of outrages, but these are inevitable if aid is not delivered quickly so the prediction becomes self fulfilling. I can find just as many cases of reports saying how calm it is, and one of my posts addressed the bias of reporters going round looking for stories. Violence is a story. I suggest these aren't typical and still don't need the sort of armed presence we see.

Here's another answer to the question why is the US bothered about Haiti

The US game in Latin AmericaUS interference in the politics of Haiti and Honduras is only the latest example of its long-term manipulations in Latin America

I often get responses from people who find it difficult to believe that the US government would care enough about these countries to try and control or topple their governments. These are small, poor countries with little in the way of resources or markets. Why should Washington policymakers care who runs them?

Unfortunately they do care. A lot. They care enough about Haiti to have overthrown the elected president Jean-Bertrand Aristide not once, but twice. The first time, in 1991, it was done covertly. We only found out after the fact that the people who led the coup were paid by the US Central Intelligence Agency. And then Emmanuel Constant, the leader of the most notorious death squad there – which killed thousands of Aristide's supporters after the coup – told CBS News that he, too, was funded by the CIA.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/29/us-latin-america-haiti-honduras

 

[aggle-rithm]

pardalis,

Yes, it isn't difficult to find instances of outrages, but these are inevitable if aid is not delivered quickly so the prediction becomes self fulfilling. I can find just as many cases of reports saying how calm it is, and one of my posts addressed the bias of reporters going round looking for stories. Violence is a story. I suggest these aren't typical and still don't need the sort of armed presence we see.

Here's another answer to the question why is the US bothered about Haiti



http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/29/us-latin-america-haiti-honduras

Wouldn't it be easier to orchestrate another coup than to invade the country?

 

[aggle-rithm]

And then Emmanuel Constant, the leader of the most notorious death squad there – which killed thousands of Aristide's supporters after the coup – told CBS News that he, too, was funded by the CIA.

Well! If you can't trust the leader of a notorious death squad, then whom can you trust?

 

[Pardalis]

I suggest these aren't typical and still don't need the sort of armed presence we see.

Argument from personal incredulity noted. Got anything else?

No?

That's what I thought.

All you seem to be doing is saying you don't think there is enough danger there, and you think there are too many troops for your taste. I'm still waiting for you to tell me what's your idea of an "appropriate amount of security", Mr expert-who-is-there-on-the-ground-and-who-knows-how-to-give-aid-to-an-entire-devastated-nation.

Remember that this is an unprecedented catastrophe. Almost the entire country is homeless and hungry. How many troops would be enough for you to help them?

I just gave you examples of aid workers being attacked, and crimes being committed and UN and aid organizations asking for more troops and more security.

And it's not just the US doing the security work, it's also the Canadian military and the MINUSTAH.

 

[Pardalis]

Your answer to everything is that the news media is biased and we should read instead your favorite socialist websites. That's basically all you've done in this thread, hand-wave away all our rational explanations and post links that have all one thing in common.

And the "it happened once before on the other side of the planet, here's a socialist commentator to prove it" is not a good argument.

Not very convincing Perseus.

 

[Travis]

Travis

Thanks for bothering to respond in such a detailed way. I still think you are getting biased information though. Do you wish to do a bit of research and remove the bit about Chile, or else you will end up looking silly and bring the reliability of everything else you just wrote into question?

I have read up on the event. The evidence, hell Nixon's own tapes, indicates the CIA had no role in the coup. All evidence that has been provided has just been people saying this or that but with no evidence to back any of it up. Multiple investigatory commissions looked into the matter and found no link.

But if you think you've got the goods, that everyone else overlooked, by all means present it.