Ancient Pyramids and other structures, astronomical alignment & similarity.

[Toke]

No, I don't. I've NEVER said anything even remotely close to that.

But your claims require it.
Perhaps you did not think your claims through, others have, and have noticed that they require quite extensive contact across millenniums (and the Atlantic).



ETA: Stargate is not the most reliable source. Try books instead of movies.

 

[Akhenaten]

Maybe you misunderstood my question.

No. Pharaoh understands your strawman queston, and also sees that EHocking has answered it for you.

Could you please post a photo of the walls where the builders embossed the "Book of the Dead"?

They did not do this in the Pyramids at Giza

The BotD was never where you're asking for it to be.

Do you understand this?

I've been inside King Tutt's tomb, or at least a replica of it.

You wouldn't believe whose tombs I've been in. Just as well it's irrelevent, so I won't have to try and convince you.

If the Sphinx still has some paint lift on it SURELY the Great Pyramid has some of these grave markings that usually accompany tombs for Pharaohs.

Read moar!

Or maybe you could show me another example of a KNOWN tomb (complete with mummy) for a Pharaoh that also lacked the embossed Book of the Dead upon the tomb walls.

Read even moar! You're talking nonsense.

From my understand sending someone off without these instructions was a sure way to screw up their afterlife.

Your understanding is insufficient to make any such assessment.

Didn't you see "Stargate"!? That box could be a resurrection chamber.

Do not attempt to troll a master. It won't end well.

*I'd give my life's wealth to sleep in that box overnight.

Khufu did too, but his ka didn't like the colour scheme, so he's moved into the fourth, secret chamber, below the Queen's Chamber.

 

[King of the Americas]

You contradict yourself. previously in this post you state, "TODAY's construction culture is not equipped, trained, or presently capable of building these kinds of structures".

I am not talking about retaining walls, I am talking about HUGE structures, intended to be the centerpiece of a culture. We don't build these things with mortarless stone fittings.. We use steel, concrete, wood, and the like. We don't build pyramids anymore.

The Book of the Dead was on papyrus and inserted into sarcophagi, not embossed on pyramid walls. This is a strawman argument. Even with the most shallow scans on the Wiki article would have pointed you to Pyramid Texts^WP that the Book of the Dead is derived from and are enscribed on pyramids at Saqqara.

I have very limited experience in seeing the walls of a pharaoh tomb.

Post some pictures, and we'll examine them.

All that I've seen have VERY ornately painted images on the inner chamber.

 

[King of the Americas]

But your claims require it.
Perhaps you did not think your claims through, others have, and have noticed that they require quite extensive contact across millenniums (and the Atlantic).



ETA: Stargate is not the most reliable source. Try books instead of movies.

When did noting 'similarities' become claiming 'exact same human culture'...?

You sir, are wrong.

And the "Stargate' reference was a joke.

 

[Akhenaten]

Throw in Yowie sighting hot spots.

Is it considered kosher in pattern-finding circles (heh) to include one's own 'sightings'? Convincing ones are actually a bit thin on the ground at the moment, and I'm sure I can write research some better ones myself.

 

[Akhenaten]

I am not talking about retaining walls, I am talking about HUGE structures, intended to be the centerpiece of a culture. We don't build these things with mortarless stone fittings.. We use steel, concrete, wood, and the like. We don't build pyramids anymore.

Have a look at the forecourt of the Louvre. Tell me if you see any chopped liver.

I have very limited experience in seeing the walls of a pharaoh tomb.

How much, exactly? None at all?

Post some pictures, and we'll examine them.

Other way around mate.

All that I've seen have VERY ornately painted images on the inner chamber.

Ever heard of the Valley of the Kings? The paintings of which you speak are on the walls of the not-Pyramids that one finds there.

Google "KV55"



ETA: Here, I'll do some of your work for you:

Have a guess whose figure that is that they tried to obliterate there.

 

[King of the Americas]

They did not do this in the Pyramids at Giza

The BotD was never where you're asking for it to be.

Do you understand this?

You wouldn't believe whose tombs I've been in. Just as well it's irrelevent, so I won't have to try and convince you.

Khufu did too, but his ka didn't like the colour scheme, so he's moved into the fourth, secret chamber, below thw Queen's Chamber.

Are the Pyramids at Giza the ONLY tombs that lack such ornamentation?

Please forgive my lack of sincere knowledge on this subject, but from what I've read, it was REALLY common to dress the walls of a tomb.

What Pharaoh tombs HAVE you been in?

I thought the Pharaoh's "ka" shot out of one of those tunnels, and became a star or one with it...?

Isn't is just like a man to want to rest for eternity under his queen?

 

[Akhenaten]

Are the Pyramids at Giza the ONLY tombs that lack such ornamentation?

No.

Please forgive my lack of sincere knowledge on this subject, but from what I've read, it was REALLY common to dress the walls of a tomb.

Not as common as you thought, apparently. You'll need to research more, and asking me 6 million questions isn't researching.

What Pharaoh tombs HAVE you been in?

Google "royal wadi amarna"

I thought the Pharaoh's "ka" shot out of one of those tunnels, and became a star or one with it...?

The ka uses doors. It does not shoot out of things. Put the comic down and learn something.

Isn't is just like a man to want to rest for eternity under his queen?

A man perhaps. Not Pharaoh, and certainly not Pharaoh Khufu.

 

[Toke]

And the "Stargate' reference was a joke.

I did not get it, sure the problem is at my end.

 

[Akhenaten]

I saw what you did there.

 

[King of the Americas]

No.

Not as common as you thought, apparently. You'll need to research more, and asking me 6 million questions isn't researching.

Google "royal wadi amarna"

The ka uses doors. It does not shoot out of things. Put the comic down and learn something.

A man perhaps. Not Pharaoh, and certainly not Pharaoh Khufu.

Interesting...did you 'notice' the fallen ornamentation that covered the walls of the tomb you mentioned. Poor stone quality led to the employment of sheet gypsum that they carved into...that has now fallen due to moisture.

Admittedly, I should suffer much more research. So please excuse my comic relief intended to fill the gaps of actual facts about this subject.

 

[Toke]

I saw what you did there.

It is difficult to hide anything from you.

 

[Checkmite]

does slaughter count as contact ?

Of course! To crush your enemies and drive them before you, you must first touch them. With something sharp.

You win!

Pretty embarrassing to get the description of my own picture wrong. I was obviously on a Snefru kick when I did the triptych, but it escaped me second time around.

Not at all; you were right in that you got the pyramids in the right order; and yes, as far as we know the Red pyramid is the first true pyramid.

The other major similarity they share is that we really DON'T know who built them, how they did it, or for what reason, or even for certain when it happened. We have 'lost' our ancient history. *(HERE is where the 'debate' should occur. Because I used the term "know". There are things that CAN be known for absolute certain. We can 'observe', repeatedly at what temperature distilled water freezes at sea level. KNOWING what happened yesterday, last week, last year, or a millennia ago, is another matter entirely. The building plans for the Empire State Building ARE still around. You can see every beam, bolt, board, and brick. We KNOW who designed it, and for what purpose. This documentation has escaped us, in regards to many of the ancient structures. 'Theories' based on 'shards' of historical evidence are just that 'theories'.)

But what more do you want? You're setting a standard of "sufficient evidence" that is simply impossible to meet, given the time period we're dealing with. We have textbits carved in stone describing so-and-so as the builder of this pyramid or the occupant of that tomb. In 4000 years, do you not see a future version of yourself looking at the building plans of the Empire State Building with the words "by James Smith, Chief Architect" on them, and saying "well - meh. We really can't know for sure whether this Smith fellow just studied the building, drawing every detail, and then taking credit for it when it was actually built much earlier"?

You're right - we don't have much. But we have to go with what we actually have, and what we have is not so little that we can't gather a pretty good idea of the way things were.

Please forgive my lack of sincere knowledge on this subject, but from what I've read, it was REALLY common to dress the walls of a tomb.

When those tombs were not pyramids, generally-speaking.

Egypt was a continuously-extant culture for a few thousand years, but during that time a lot of things changed. You're looking at roughly 1200 years between the 4th Dynasty - when pyramid building was all the rage - until the death of Tutankhamun; bear in mind how many things we already know to be vastly different: instead of placing their dead kings in majestic, towering mountains of stone where everyone for miles around could see them as in the past, the Egyptians were by the 18th Dynasty hiding their kings in little holes dug in an obscure, out-of-the-way valley where hopefully nobody could ever find them. Since the tombs were outwardly much more humble, it's easy to understand why, inside, they became much more beautiful and elaborate.

 

[Checkmite]

[qimg]http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/KV55.jpg[/qimg]


Have a guess whose figure that is that they tried to obliterate there.

Hmmm....long face; wide, womanly hips....making an offering to the sun disk...yeah, I'm betting it's that pinko hippy-type from Amarna.

 

[Akhenaten]

Beyotch!

 

[Akhenaten]

Interesting...did you 'notice' the fallen ornamentation that covered the walls of the tomb you mentioned. Poor stone quality led to the employment of sheet gypsum that they carved into...that has now fallen due to moisture.

Admittedly, I should suffer much more research. So please excuse my comic relief intended to fill the gaps of actual facts about this subject.

Surprisingly for such a generally dry place, water has done a vast amount of damage to tombs everywhere in Egypt, especially in KV. Tombs at the lower ends of the wadis have suffered numerous floods since antiquity, and KV55 for example is going to take years to clear out.

The plaster you mention is widely used to give a smooth surface on which to draw, but unfortunately it's not as resilient as the native rock, particularly to moisture,


As an aside, you may have learned by now that many non-pyramid tombs are undecorated because they were either not finished or done so hurriedly because Pharaoh didn't go the distance. They only had 70 days from dead to buried, so they couldn't get much done in the way of finishing off a 20 year job if Pharaoh met with an 'accident'.

 

[King of the Americas]

As an aside, you may have learned by now that many non-pyramid tombs are undecorated because they were either not finished or done so hurriedly because Pharaoh didn't go the distance. They only had 70 days from dead to buried, so they couldn't get much done in the way of finishing off a 20 year job if Pharaoh met with an 'accident'.

This was quite evident in King Tutt's tomb. Half of the BofD was beautifully painted, and the rest looked 'scribbled'...

Given the elevation of the inner pyramid, where such etchings or drawings would be, if they ever were there we should see at least traces of the adornment.

When I first read about the Great Pyramid, as a child, I recalled that it lacked any markings of any kind, sans a singular inscription that looked more like graffiti inscribed as an after thought. ALL of the other tombs I'd read about were very ornately decorated or embossed so that you knew exactly who the facility was built for.

Besides the singular Khufu signature, are there ANY markings that attribute the Great Pyramid as a tomb for Khufu?

 

[Akhenaten]

This was quite evident in King Tutt's tomb. Half of the BofD was beautifully painted, and the rest looked 'scribbled'...

The abbreviation for Tutankhamun is

, not Tutt.

At least try and look as though you're taking this seriously.

Similarly, Book of the Dead does not abbreviate to 'BofD'

The last panels completed in KV62 were indeed hurried somewhat, owing to the enexpectedly early demise of the King.

Given the elevation of the inner pyramid, where such etchings or drawings would be, if they ever were there we should see at least traces of the adornment.

How long do you adjudge that you can ask the same question, to be told again and again that the drawings you're talking about never existed, without having people stop answering you altogether?

Protip: I for one will not respond to any further posts of yours that contain this question, no matter how it's worded.

When I first read about the Great Pyramid, as a child, I recalled that it lacked any markings of any kind, sans a singular inscription that looked more like graffiti inscribed as an after thought.

What you read was pretty much correct. See if you can find the book again.

ALL of the other tombs I'd read about were very ornately decorated or embossed so that you knew exactly who the facility was built for.

That simply means that you didn't read about the undecorated ones, doesn't it? It doesn't make them cease to exist.

Besides the singular Khufu signature, are there ANY markings that attribute the Great Pyramid as a tomb for Khufu?

The singular Khufu signature that was "more like graffiti inscribed as an after thought"?

Dunno. You're telling this story.

 

[King of the Americas]

The abbreviation for Tutankhamun is [qimg]http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/CartoucheTutankhamun.jpg[/qimg], not Tutt.

At least try and look as though you're taking this seriously.

Similarly, Book of the Dead does not abbreviate to 'BofD'

The last panels completed in KV62 were indeed hurried somewhat, owing to the enexpectedly early demise of the King.

How long do you adjudge that you can ask the same question, to be told again and again that the drawings you're talking about never existed, without having people stop answering you altogether?

Protip: I for one will not respond to any further posts of yours that contain this question, no matter how it's worded.

What you read was pretty much correct. See if you can find the book again.

That simply means that you didn't read about the undecorated ones, doesn't it? It doesn't make them cease to exist.

The singular Khufu signature that was "more like graffiti inscribed as an after thought"?

Dunno. You're telling this story.

Alright...my apologies for the improper abbreviations...I think I was in Junior High before I became aware that "King Tutt" wasn't a "king" but a "Pharaoh", and that his name was "Tutankhamun". (potato potato)

Okay forget my comments about the Book of the Dead, and its absence from the Great Pyramid. Where's the ornamentation of ANY kind?

http://sonsothunder.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/khufu_cartouche11.jpg

Maybe if 'I' sign my name on some obscure location on the Empire State Building, 3000 years from now people will think 'I' ordered and paid for its construction. Although I seriously doubt it will still be standing 3 millennia from today.

So, my REPEATED question is, besides the above linked inscription, what evidence is used to conclude that the Great Pyramid was the tomb of Khufu?

---

ETA:

There ARE reasons to question whether or not that inscriptions are authentic:

http://jcolavito.tripod.com/lostcivilizations/id10.html

"'Quarry Marks' exist in the relieving chambers above the King's Chamber, including one mark which is reported to indicate Khufu, the pharaoh under whose reign the Great Pyramid was built. One source suggests that these quarry marks were faked by Howard Vyse in 1837. The reasons give[n] are many, but the main ones are: These marks appear only in the 4 relieving chambers opend by Vyse and not in the original relieving chamber opened by Davison in 1765. Vyse's diary for that day described a thorough examination of the relieving rooms but no mention of the hieroglyphics and quarry marks. The marks were mentioned only the next day, when Vyse returned with witnesses. There are problems with the hieroglyphics in that they are a mixture of styles and syntax/usage from differing time periods of Egypt. And finally, in the marks bearing Khufu's name, mistakes were made. Those same mistakes occur in the only two hieroglyphics references that would have been available to Vyse at that time."

For the record Graham Hancock 'believes' that Khufu built the Great Pyramid, or at least most of it...

It would appear that one "Zecharia Sitchin" is responsible for ALL of the consideration that the above inscription was forged.

Alright, now I'm dizzy.

 

[Marcus]

I hear it's quite an experience to crawl way back into Khufu's pyramid, or at least as far as they will let you. I believe the King's chamber is included. It's not an easy task, the tunnels are small.