Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Fulcanelli]

We know Amanda was awake at 1:30 AM. We know she was awake at 5:30 AM. And we know it took some time to extract the statement for her to sign. How rational are you after less than four hours of sleep, even without people yelling at you?

She didn't have to be. We know the police were done with her at 1:45 am. She could have gone to sleep. She was only heard again because she insisted. Why blame the police for what Amanda inflicted upon herself? She was an adult. She had the right to demand to be heard again or go to sleep. She made her choices. Let's not blame the police for them.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Was Amanda free to leave after her 1:30 AM statement?

Of course. She could have refused to stop answering questions at any time. If you doubt me, just look at Raffaele.

 

[odeed]

Can I ask if Amanda Knox was a witness or suspect at the end of the 1:45 AM interview/interrogation?

Was she free to leave or was she required to stay?

 

[Fulcanelli]

We know that the police lied about whether or not Amanda went to the station voluntarily or not (http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/05/giobbi-i-gave-order.html). We know that the police have a dog-ate-my-homework excuse for why they did not record the interrogation. That gives their account of the interrogation little credibility.

Amanda insisted on going. They only requested the presence of Raffaele.

 

[shuttlt]

Can I ask if Amanda Knox was a witness or suspect at the end of the 1:45 AM interview/interrogation?

Was she free to leave or was she required to stay?

Her becoming a suspect is what ended the session at 01:45.

She wasn't free to leave at 05:45am. I doubt she'd have been free to leave at 01:45am.

 

[Fulcanelli]

What is with all this nit picking on trivial nonsense? Why does it matter if the police asked both of them or one of them to come to the police station? We keep churning over these issues that the defence have presumably known about for two years and clearly doesn't regard as being important enough to bring up. Other first hand material has been handed out by the defence yet we are here relying on correctly interpreting single sentences spoken by isolated individuals over a period of two years. This is a waste of time. Perhaps somebody in the investigation says "I think it's about time we bring them both in" before that's done somebody else decides actually they should bring them in one at a time. Who knows? If this is a serious issue then it should be investigated by people who have the resources to investigate it, i.e. the defence.

Why is this important?

The interesting thing is that some are spending so much time on the questioning of the couple, when their questioning had absolutely nothing to do with their conviction. It never formed any core of the evidence.

Alright, they may argue that the questioning may have set the investigation off on a certain heading (true or not), but whatever the investigation turned up still had to go through the rigour of a full trial, under the scrutiny of some of the best lawyers and experts in the land, pass by a panel of judges who examined the data for 11 months in order to come to a decision (that's without mentioning all the hoops it had to a through before even getting to trial) and they came to a verdict.

Why are certain people dwelling on 'who' and at what time people were asked to come in for questioning? At the end of the day, what does this have to do with the evidence and resulting convictions?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Can I ask if Amanda Knox was a witness or suspect at the end of the 1:45 AM interview/interrogation?

Was she free to leave or was she required to stay?

As a witness she could have requested to leave. As a suspoect, she could have requested to leave, but at that point, whether she'd have been allowed to would have been up to the police.

After her final statement she was told she was being kept for her own safety. This I believe to be true. Had she have left and then been murdered by the murderer to keep her quiet...you can imagine the trouble the police would have been in.

But anyway, to define the exact point in time where she would have been allowed to leave (technically) to the point she wouldn't can only be an educated guess.

What we 'know', is that she didn't have to be at the station in the first place. She was then asked some questions as a 'Witness'. Theoretically, she could have requested to leave during that point. In reality, had she have done so the police would have made her a 'Suspect' and she wouldn't have been allowed to.

The fact remains, nobody made her go to the police station in the first place. They wanted to speak to Raffaele only. She insisted on going with him.

 

[Fulcanelli]

The incident is important because it shows that the police gave out false or misleading information. The same is true of the cartwheel. They said that Amanda was performing one without explaining it had been done at the behest of an investigator (http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/20...ly-admits.html
). These and other such actions sap their credibility.

And halides1 STILL hasn't read Amanda's testimony on the stand. Nobody told her to do a cartwheel, as she testified...it's more BS made up by Chris Mellas. If you doubt me, read Amanda's own testimony in court...finally...do you think you might get around to it????

If not, please keep quiet until you have and leave the discussion to those that actually 'have' done the research, instead of limiting their reading to FOA websites.. Go away and play and leave the adults to talk. Thank you.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Let's just have a look at the kind of people that support Amanda Knox are. A recent video made by Knox supporters on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuifl8SBe9Q

 

[Fiona]

Her becoming a suspect is what ended the session at 01:45.

Yes.

She wasn't free to leave at 05:45am. I doubt she'd have been free to leave at 01:45am.

She would not have been allowed to leave at 01:45, as I understand it. Once the police advise someone they are a suspect they can hold the person until the prosecutor arrives. The prosecutor decides, on the basis of the evidence to date, whether he wishes to exercise his right to hold the suspect for up to 48 hours: during which time he must present his case for continued detention to a judge. So Mignini would have made the decision at some point during the night

As an aside, and for any who have forgotten, Mignini was not there during her questioning up to 01:45: he was called in once she became a suspect, in line with their system.

 

[odeed]

Let's just have a look at the kind of people that support Amanda Knox are. A recent video made by Knox supporters on Youtube:

curtknoxify, the person who posted the youtube video, is a troll. I have seen a message on another video claiming to be AK father and trying to get a response.

ETA: first message on this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwKz2tz9Efo

 

[Fiona]

Let's just have a look at the kind of people that support Amanda Knox are. A recent video made by Knox supporters on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuifl8SBe9Q

I cannot accept that comes from anyone in Knox's family nor any sane person at all. Much as I deplore much of the misinformation coming from FOA I do not believe they made that nor authorised it

That has to be a lone nutter at work, surely?

 

[Fulcanelli]

If that's not enough:



Curtesy of the halides1, Kestrel, Dan o gang. What a cause!

(warning: video linked contains obscenity)

I've been persuaded to remove the link.

Edited by Lisa Simpson: 

Edited to remove discussion of inappropriate video

 

[Fulcanelli]

I cannot accept that comes from anyone in Knox's family nor any sane person at all. Much as I deplore much of the misinformation coming from FOA I do not believe they made that nor authorised it

That has to be a lone nutter at work, surely?

Unfortunately...from PMF:

It looks like the Bumper Sticker Man, ebay username "andysconcessions" located in Texas. (Certainly not from Amanda's family---on the Youtube page click on his name Curtknoxify and you'll see, in Channel Comments, an obscene comment he left an hour ago, sketching a sex orgy, and then "retracting" it with the word "LIES". No family member would do that.) Note that he concludes the Youtube video with "Free Amanda" advertising merchandise, a photo-edited Tee Shirt, the sort of stuff he sells on ebay. "Curtknoxify" also has the same apocalyptic/Biblical mind set as "andysconcessions", see cgi.ebay.com. So, I don't think the video is a hoax. Just the product of a sick mind.

http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=32958#p32958


This is the guy who's currently selling these bumper stickers on the co-Administrator of PMF - Peggy Ganong - (and read his write-up, it's a 'delight'):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Peggy-Ganong-Am...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439ce46dc4

 

[Fiona]

Fulcanelli, that is outrageous and it is sick. Again, I do not believe that represents anyone at all. The person who made that is a lone nutter and we should not be spreading that kind of thing. It is sick and it has no place on this board.

I do not believe anyone here is in any way associated with that and I would be very grateful if you would just take it down

I understand you are angry: how could anyone not be? But let us acknowledge that however bizarre the arguments put forward here that is no part of them

I urge anyone else who has not done so to refrain from viewing that last link. It will not do you any good to see it

ETA: referring to the link in post # 2433: cross posted

 

[Kestrel]

This is a decent argument that they probably didn't form an organized conspiracy before the fact to commit murder. Is that the claim?

Again, this is an argument against an organized conspiracy before the fact to commit murder. Is that what we, or the prosecution are suggesting?

That all depends what happened that night, doesn't it?

The prosecution argument is that the suspects carried a knife from RS's place to murder Meredith. Never mind that the kitchen at the cottage had similar knives that didn't need to be hauled across town. They even dug up a witness that told a tale of seeing the knife and bravely defending himself by throwing olives and a cell phone.

If we are expected to believe they brought along a murder weapon, isn't premedication also implied?

If they only intended to torture Meredith, how does this work? Are we expected to buy the idea that RS, AK and RG were going to torture a woman and force her into sexual games and then expected her to not complain afterwards?

There's the other claims about what she got up to in addition to the wild party, but they form no part of the trial. Equally, sometimes murders are committed by people who don't have a history of violence.

I haven't heard reliable information on anything worse than the loud party ticket.

Yes, some murders are committed by people with no history of violence. If you look a bit deeper, you will find an actual motive or severe mental illness behind most of these cases.

Why would this be hard to imagine. Oh, and it wasn't quite all their trace evidence was it?

Have you really thought about the cleanup claims? How do you clean a bloody footprint so that it has no traces of blood or the victim's DNA, yet leave the imprint so it shows up in luminol? How do you clean up blood with a mop and leave no trace of blood on the mop? How could AK and RS go back into the murder room and remove just the trace evidence pointing to them while leaving all the blood splatters , fingerprint, footprints and DNA pointing to RG? We are asked to believe the evidence is missing because the suspects did the impossible.

A skeptic might conclude that the luminol footprints were simply someone walking over a floor still wet from being cleaned sometime far earlier than when the murder occurred. And that the most plausible reason for not finding trace evidence from AK and RS is that they were not in the room when Meredith was murdered.

 

[Fulcanelli]

I do not believe anyone here is in any way associated with that and I would be very grateful if you would just take it down

Yes I'm angry. But please don't mistake me...I'm not accusing anyone here of making those videos. I'm only stating that certain people are supporting a cause that is being supported by those making those sort of videos.

I wouldn't bring attention to them and would ignore them. However, I think it's essential in order to demonstrate just how far the Knox support is willing to go. Don't worry, many good people are fighting as we speak to have those videos removed from Youtube. But it is also important people understand the reality of just how low, for some, this has gotten and they will stop at 'nothing' to have their way.

A girl lies murdered, butchered, her family is devastated for life. Yet all we hear about is 'poor Amanda'. Meredith was sexually assaulted, tortured with a knife and had over 42 wounds on her body and her hyoid bone was broken. She was then locked in her room and left to drown in her own blood. Meanwhile, all certain people care about is looking after their own interests and agenda. Who cares about Meredith? It's like she's being murdered all over again, for a second time.

 

[Fiona]

The prosecution argument is that the suspects carried a knife from RS's place to murder Meredith. Never mind that the kitchen at the cottage had similar knives that didn't need to be hauled across town. They even dug up a witness that told a tale of seeing the knife and bravely defending himself by throwing olives and a cell phone.

If we are expected to believe they brought along a murder weapon, isn't premedication also implied?

No.

If they only intended to torture Meredith, how does this work? Are we expected to buy the idea that RS, AK and RG were going to torture a woman and force her into sexual games and then expected her to not complain afterwards?

It is not part of the case that they premeditated murder or torture: we do not know.

Yes, some murders are committed by people with no history of violence. If you look a bit deeper, you will find an actual motive or severe mental illness behind most of these cases.

Evidence?

And while I am here, do you withdraw your statement that 4 people made allegations of brutality agains the police?

 

[Fiona]

Yes I'm angry. But please don't mistake me...I'm not accusing anyone here of making those videos. I'm only stating that certain people are supporting a cause that is being supported by those making those sort of videos.

Lunatics can attach themselves to anything, Fulcanelli. You know this.

I wouldn't bring attention to them and would ignore them. However, I think it's essential ion order to demonstrate just how far the Knox support is willing to go. Don't worry, many good people are fighting as we speak to have those videos removed from Youtube. But it is also important people understand the reality of just how low, for some, this has gotten and they will stop at 'nothing' to have their way.

My point is that this is not the "knox support". It is a vicious sick individual and he does not speak for anyone. Fulcanelli I hold no brief for the "knox support" as I have seen them operate here and elsewhere: they are impervious to facts and to reason so far as I can tell.

But however you may see them (or I may see them) that is nothing to do with them. At least that is my view until it is proved otherwise.

 

[odeed]

The prosecution argument is that the suspects carried a knife from RS's place to murder Meredith. Never mind that the kitchen at the cottage had similar knives that didn't need to be hauled across town. They even dug up a witness that told a tale of seeing the knife and bravely defending himself by throwing olives and a cell phone.

If we are expected to believe they brought along a murder weapon, isn't premedication also implied?

I thought it was strange that they would take a knife to the apartment, and thought it was more likely the a knife was used from the kitchen, but I think I read that RS was a bit of knife fanatic and sometimes carried a knife and that his father even warned him about carrying a knife with the police around.

Regarding the second interview at 5:30 AM (or 5:45 AM) 6 November, after finishing at 1:45 AM, was this at the police request or Amanda Knox request (did the police go in and wake her up)?