Lothian
should be banned
Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.
- Thread starter DOC
- Start date
-
- Tags
- bible evidence new testament
- Status
joobz
Tergiversator
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2006
- Messages
- 17,998
DOn't hold your breath.
DOC doesn't like being proven* wrong.
*and of course, by proven I mean provided evidence of his false statement.
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Marduk
Banned
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2009
- Messages
- 10,183
The Romans had specific execution types for specific crimes, the type of execution reserved for messiahs (enemies of the state), slaves and pirates was crucifixion from before the Babylonian diaspora, thats about 600 years before Jesus turned up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion
So to claim that prophets didn't know what would happen to someone who opposed the Roman Empire leaves them and the claimiant looking a bit stupid doesn't it.....
The Romans had specific execution types for specific crimes, the type of execution reserved for messiahs (enemies of the state), slaves and pirates was crucifixion from before the Babylonian diaspora, thats about 600 years before Jesus turned up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion
So to claim that prophets didn't know what would happen to someone who opposed the Roman Empire leaves them and the claimiant looking a bit stupid doesn't it.....
I think you're a bit off on this one. Without checking when exactly these alleged prophecies were made, they were certainly before Rome had conquered the Jews, so how would they guess that Roman punishments for treason (even if they were current at the time of the prophecy) would ever apply to the Messiah?
Do you have any record of the Jews mentioning crucifixion in the Old Testament?
I noticed you left out a very important segment of the book immediately following the above quote on page 236 and on to page 237. I can't cut and paste off the PDF format I have. Maybe someone else can figure out how to bring in this very important part and onto page 237. The book is no longer under copyright so you can bring in as much as you want.
Once again the book's title is "The Bearing of Recent Discovery on the Trustworthiness of the New Testament" by W. M. Ramsay and you can get it off the internet.
Last edited:
Elizabeth I
Philosopher
You know, you might check with your library and see if they have the book or can get it through interlibrary loan.
My apologies, I was wrong. (see how that's done, doc?) I was indeed looking at the join date.
Nonetheless, it takes you 16 months to read two books? Again, even if you are studying them, you can't read something else in between study sessions?
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
BobTheDonkey
Illuminator
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2009
- Messages
- 4,501
amb
Unregistered
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2007
- Messages
- 18,777
DOC has the link. I'm quoting him.
Lothian
should be banned
Why ask me, it is your claim.
If it is important you can type the segment in. However nothing on the next two pages contradicts his earlier statement that there is no historical evidence.
You said I lied when I said he said there was no evidence. I brought in the quote, yet you still refuse to apologise. You want your words left there for all to see. Your lack of apology certainly stands out.
I didn't say you lied, I said your statement was false. I'll explain as time permits. I have several posts I have to respond to, and I do have projects outside of this system.
Lothian
should be banned
The Crucifixion Psalm - Psalm 22
Let me talk a little about my comment regarding the crucifixion, prophecy, and the OT.
Psalm 22 has been called the Crucifixion Psalm because many Christians believe it is prophesying about the crucifixion of Christ. I would recommend people to read the whole psalm and the following website but here are some of the main points in the article.
From the Moorings Website: The Crucifixion of Christ
Lesson 2: Psalm 22 as Prophecy
"* "They pierced my hands and my feet." Could there be clearer proof that the psalm describes a crucifixion? In what other mode of execution does the victim suffer a piercing of his hands and feet? Earlier, we showed that Jesus was held to the cross by three nails, one through each forearm and one through both heels.
* "I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me." "Tell" means "count exactly" (7). Another peculiar feature of crucifixion is that before the executioners hoisted the victim into the air, they confiscated at least his outer garments. Jesus also suffered this indignity (John 19:23). A further account of Jesus' garments comes next.
* "They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture." It was customary at a Roman crucifixion for the attending soldiers to divide the garments of the condemned man among themselves (8). Accordingly, the garments of Jesus were apportioned into four shares (John 19:23). The soldiers determined who would take His outer coat by casting lots (John 19:24)....
...An uninformed reader of Psalm 22 might suspect that the writer is knowingly describing a crucifixion. The facts prove otherwise, however. This method of punishment was not invented until the sixth century B.C., long after any plausible date for Psalm 22 (9). So what we have in this psalm is supernatural knowledge of the future—real prophecy, in other words."
http://www.themoorings.org/apologetics/prophecy/Crucifixion/Ps22.html
As the book cited in post #1 explains, there are two options for those who believe in this prophecy. And I am saying this from memory since I don't have the book with me.
1) David is writing this psalm as a prophet would reveal a prophecy.
2) This is a prophecy that could only be understood or revealed through the manifestation of the Life of Christ.
In either case the supernatural is at work.
On another note we have the prophetic verse in Isaiah Chapter 53, "by his stripes we are healed". So it can be argued that both Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 are prophetic of the crucifixion, even though the Jews were unaware of that form of execution at the time the verses were written.
Let me talk a little about my comment regarding the crucifixion, prophecy, and the OT.
Psalm 22 has been called the Crucifixion Psalm because many Christians believe it is prophesying about the crucifixion of Christ. I would recommend people to read the whole psalm and the following website but here are some of the main points in the article.
From the Moorings Website: The Crucifixion of Christ
Lesson 2: Psalm 22 as Prophecy
"* "They pierced my hands and my feet." Could there be clearer proof that the psalm describes a crucifixion? In what other mode of execution does the victim suffer a piercing of his hands and feet? Earlier, we showed that Jesus was held to the cross by three nails, one through each forearm and one through both heels.
* "I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me." "Tell" means "count exactly" (7). Another peculiar feature of crucifixion is that before the executioners hoisted the victim into the air, they confiscated at least his outer garments. Jesus also suffered this indignity (John 19:23). A further account of Jesus' garments comes next.
* "They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture." It was customary at a Roman crucifixion for the attending soldiers to divide the garments of the condemned man among themselves (8). Accordingly, the garments of Jesus were apportioned into four shares (John 19:23). The soldiers determined who would take His outer coat by casting lots (John 19:24)....
...An uninformed reader of Psalm 22 might suspect that the writer is knowingly describing a crucifixion. The facts prove otherwise, however. This method of punishment was not invented until the sixth century B.C., long after any plausible date for Psalm 22 (9). So what we have in this psalm is supernatural knowledge of the future—real prophecy, in other words."
http://www.themoorings.org/apologetics/prophecy/Crucifixion/Ps22.html
As the book cited in post #1 explains, there are two options for those who believe in this prophecy. And I am saying this from memory since I don't have the book with me.
1) David is writing this psalm as a prophet would reveal a prophecy.
2) This is a prophecy that could only be understood or revealed through the manifestation of the Life of Christ.
In either case the supernatural is at work.
On another note we have the prophetic verse in Isaiah Chapter 53, "by his stripes we are healed". So it can be argued that both Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 are prophetic of the crucifixion, even though the Jews were unaware of that form of execution at the time the verses were written.
Last edited:
Mojo
Mostly harmless
- Status