Rramjet, you have been bleating about Mach 2+ and wanting me to prove that the F-4 could not make Mach-2 with drop tanks. I have already put up the proof, but you did not read it, or you rejected it out of hand “because I am not an F-4 pilot”. And, you have continually asked for proof long after it was available.
Here is a chart that shows the indicated airspeed strutural envelope
h ttp://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=312&pictureid=1911
as a clean/Sparrow load limit. By referring to the stores limitation, the empty Fletcher tank is limited to mach-1.6 over 22,000 ft.
(The heavy line that goes up the 750 knot line to intercept the Mach-2.0 line at 30,000 ft and follows it, is the max continuous speed limit) for the airframe
.
But I’ll go through it again just for you
1.- Open h ttp://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=312&pictureid=1911
Look at the graph. There are altitude labels in the Y axis, and indicated airspeed labels in the X axis. There is also a family of curves going from M-.4 to M-2.58.
(Actually, the airspeed is in calibrated airspeed but as long as the air data computer is working, that is what you are seeing, without it working, the difference is single digits. I put this in because if you found out the difference, you would accuse me of not knowing anything about the F-4. I try to keep all of this as simple as I can, because it can get complicated fast and the more complicated, the more people get confused.)
2. Look at the box in the upper right and note the normal limits are a heave solid line and transient limits are a heave dashed line. Look at the airspeeds and see the heavy dashed line going vertically at the 750 KIAS point. Follow it up to 30k ft. where it jinks left to 700 KIAS, and up again to where it intercepts the M-2.0 curve, where it follows that curve to the top.
This is airframe structural limits
3. Now go to
w wwmstewart.net/subob/fighters/f4.pdf
This is the PDF that has some pages from sections 1 & 5 of the dash one. Open it and go down to page 12 where you will see a table labeled external stores limitations.
4.- Under the column labeled “store”, move down 3 rows to the block labeled “Sargeant-Fletcher 370 gal. Wing tank”. Now move 7 & 8 columns right where you will see airspeeds of 750 & 550 KIAS and Mach of 1.6. The tanks are limited to 550 kias with fuel in the tank and 750 when empty. To use these, the lower speed takes precedence, so the “limiting structural airspeed for the wing tanks” are (assuming they are empty) will be 750 knots up to 22k ft and m-1.6 from there on.
5. This is the limiting
structural speeds for that configuration. So, Mach 2 – impossible.
Now take a look at this chart. I originally had some problems getting it up, it is here now. This is the “operational limitations” for the eight missiles and various fuel loads. Open this graph
w ww.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/More%20Charts/Level%20Flight%20Performance%20Envelope.gif
Notice the three sets of curves being from left to right; stall speed, mil power max speed, and full burner max speed. Note also that each of the fuel configurations of no-externals, centerline only, wing only, and all three bags of gas, numbered 1-4. The curve for this situation is #3. The sweet spot for this is at 36k ft and you get just shy of M-1.55.
Notice that you can’t bust the Mach using only Mil Power, it takes some burner.
So Ramjet, will you finally admit that the tale of chasing the UFO at Mach-2+ just didn’t happen?
Akhenaten, nice photoshop. The first thing that popped out was the UK civilian registration letters on a bird from a Korean base. That one had me scratching my head for awhile, till I looked at the blimp. Not only did you put the Shrike backwards, but also its pylon.. The centerline tank looked strange. I had to leave the computer till the rear of the brain finally got that it too is backward. It still looks a little odd even after mentally flipping it. Maybe I wasn’t used to seeing it at that particular angle. Was the big jamming pod on the bird or did you put it on too? I never carried that one.
