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Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

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halides1 said:
Fiona,

Photos from a video camera show that the bra was moved at least once in those forty-odd days and that it ended up lying next to a disheveled rug.

Chris
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Which video? If it is the one Bremner relied on it is not a video of the same house, even
 
Matthew Best said:
Is there some reason that you quoted my questions and then neglected to answer them?
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Yes.

Unless you read the links in their entirety, MB, it's evident to me that you have no interest in learning more about the case but only in my interpretation of the case. Don't let me be your filter any more than I allowed the Seattle media to be mine (until last weekend, that is).

Another issue is time. I've spent hours reading about the case, including translations of some of the court documents. I did not create a catalogue of the thousands of pieces of minutiae. However, the search function and the chronological progression of events is manifestly set out at PMF.

Just as an example, it took me about twenty minutes to search for and reply to your previous question (which probably took you a couple minutes to write, if that). That doesn't include my original time investment into reading the entire available translation--about two additional hours. My answer was dismissed with a hand-wave and we're off to the next question. At this point, therefore, I have to conclude that you're not really interested in reading the documents.
 
stilicho said:
Yes.

Unless you read the links in their entirety, MB, it's evident to me that you have no interest in learning more about the case but only in my interpretation of the case. Don't let me be your filter any more than I allowed the Seattle media to be mine (until last weekend, that is).

Another issue is time. I've spent hours reading about the case, including translations of some of the court documents. I did not create a catalogue of the thousands of pieces of minutiae. However, the search function and the chronological progression of events is manifestly set out at PMF.

Just as an example, it took me about twenty minutes to search for and reply to your previous question (which probably took you a couple minutes to write, if that). That doesn't include my original time investment into reading the entire available translation--about two additional hours. My answer was dismissed with a hand-wave and we're off to the next question. At this point, therefore, I have to conclude that you're not really interested in reading the documents.
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I have to support this as a general point without specifically intending to direct it at any one poster.

I have also devoted quite a lot of time and effort to this subject. I do not complain about that: it interested me. But by now I seem to find that we are going over ground already covered and I do not think that the people who are raising these issues have taken the trouble to read this thread, never mind the many many sources which are feely available and which have been recommended.

So I am going to suggest that those who are concerned about particular aspects of the evidence make some attempt to read what both sides say before they make assertions: and to show that they have done so.

I honestly do not see that that is unreasonable: it does take time to research every point: I do not see why the investment should all come from a few. It is a sceptics site: we should be working together on this.
 
quadraginta said:
I must confess that my selection of sources has not gone through a filter which eliminates any that might contemplate the idea Knox is not entirely blameless in all regards.
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Let's put it this way. Ms Knox was in it up to her ears and the police suspected it immediately. The only surprise is that the charges came so "late". But they had to wait for Sollecito's alibi to break down before hers was.

I'm looking ahead to what her team could possibly argue on appeal. I think the first priority would be to get rid of her problems with "reality/imagination/confusion". There's a saying that there is no need to remember things (or recollect times, places, events) when you're telling the truth. And the last thing you want to do in a courtroom is to testify under some "cloud of unknowing". Even if you're lying, you have to do it with conviction--pun somewhat unintended.

If Ms Knox goes into her appeal with exactly the same arguments and exactly the same attitude then, regardless of truth, lies, blameworthy, blameless, portrayed as saintly, painted as "she-devil", she'll end up no further ahead than now. It's time her father told her that since he appears to be the only person she listens to or takes seriously.

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In the realm of speculation, of course, I figure Knox and Sollecito were interrupted before they finished cleaning up and rationalising the cottage crime scene. I am quite sure they were both aware that leaving a corpse in a locked room with no other entry point was a big mistake.
 
stilicho said:
If Ms Knox goes into her appeal with exactly the same arguments ... regardless of truth, lies, blameworthy, blameless, portrayed as saintly, painted as "she-devil", she'll end up no further ahead than now.
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I agree with this. I don't know that I would have voted to convict her in the first place, but from the evidence I have since seen I don't think it's going to be very easy to overturn the verdict now it's been reached.
 
halides1 said:
The scientists discussed a video camera in the link I provided.

Chris
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They assert it without details, there is no disucssion. Do you have further info on this, or are we to just take their word for it?
 
halides1 said:
Are you saying that you don't believe them? I would respectfully suggest you contact the signers of the letter and take it up with them.

Chris
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And I suggest you stop taking things on authority of the people you happen to think agree with you

There is at least one video which makes assertions about the crime scene and which shows a different house entirely

If anyone should contact the signers of the letter it is you: it is your claim
 
stilicho said:
<snip>
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In the realm of speculation, of course, I figure Knox and Sollecito were interrupted before they finished cleaning up and rationalising the cottage crime scene. I am quite sure they were both aware that leaving a corpse in a locked room with no other entry point was a big mistake.
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Another aspect of the case which seems to be remarkably overlooked (:rolleyes:) is that the police did not respond to a murder scene. An unrelated chain of events led to the premature discover of Kercher's cell phones. That same chain of events caused enough concern of its own to prompt a visit to the cottage by mail and communication authorities.

There were behaviors and statements of Knox and Sollecito prior even to the discovery of the murder which prompted some of the subsequent attention that they received and led ultimately to their arrest.

This does not mesh well with the "brutal interrogation" line of defense in the national media, so they don't dwell on it.

Or even mention it much, as nearly as I can determine.
 
Matthew Best said:
I agree with this. I don't know that I would have voted to convict her in the first place, but from the evidence I have since seen I don't think it's going to be very easy to overturn the verdict now it's been reached.
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Wait, so even though you don't think the evidence was enough to convict her, the evidence is solid enough to keep her in prison?
 
Fiona said:
...I have also devoted quite a lot of time and effort to this subject. I do not complain about that: it interested me. But by now I seem to find that we are going over ground already covered and I do not think that the people who are raising these issues have taken the trouble to read this thread, never mind the many many sources which are feely available and which have been recommended.
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For what it's worth, as an outsider with few preconceived notions about the case, I have greatly enjoyed -- and greatly appreciate -- the stellar work you have put into this thread.
 
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