Gang stalking paranoia

[Whiplash]

You raise a VERY good point here. The net, for all its great aspects, has also enabled those suffering from paranoid delusions to reinforce each other's beliefs systems. If you are delusional the last you need to do is to talk to other schizophrenics who confirm all your false beliefs.

It goes both ways though. People also are more connected to real knowledge and people who are brilliant and have facts and information to share with those that want to learn.

To some extent, there has always been a way for people of certain mindsets to get together and feed off each other. Newsletters, radio shows, even little conventions and stuff. Yes, it's more easy now for them to get bad info and pool together on insane beliefs. But the world is also interconnected and people have access to reams of knowledge and facts, and can be educated much more than ever before. I think, on balance, that the net is going to be much more of a positive force in human development than a negative. I think there will be a time in the future where the interconnectivity of the whole world is going to be remembered as a major milestone in our overall enlightenment as a species.

 

[Hans]

Well this is just weird

I read this thread last night and then went out to get some milk at the local market. It was fairly late at night and the guy ahead of me in the check out line gave me a strange look and said a few things to the check out girl I couldn't hear. When I came up for my turn. The checker whom I know faintly said. "That man said you were following him and that you worked for the government".

We just looked at one another and laught.

Oh that was just weird - or did I just say that?

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Don't worry folks, we are hard at work on the solution to this problem.

I'm anxiously awaiting the day I see that video referenced or linked to on a Gang Stalking site as proof the media is also following them.

 

[Trojan_Jockey]

It goes both ways though. People also are more connected to real knowledge and people who are brilliant and have facts and information to share with those that want to learn.

I think the net has also shown us that many people don't know how to separate valid facts from ********. It's true that there is so much information out there, but not all of it is "real" knowledge at all. You have people with no reasoning skills and little formal education, who are being bombarded with all these theories presented in flowery language and with so much passion that it sounds convincing. Plus, logic tells them these guys only want to make the world a better place so they must be good.

We can't limit what is put out there, so people have to be able to filter out what is a good source from a bad source, what statements are supported by facts and what isn't. The 9/11 CT showed just how much garbage people will swallow. Yes, the net is a good thing, but I dont think humans are quite as good at filtering out the "real" facts from the garbage as we'd like to think.

 

[FriendlyAndLively]

I'm interested, could you tell me about this "conspiracy crowd" whose members suddenly believe that they are being gang stalked?

I find the language and tone of the original post fascinating. LightinDarkness seems to know an awful lot about these people. Could he elaborate?

Could he also explain to the survivors of East Germany's regime, many of whom experienced the Stasi's 'zersetzung' tactics which are similar to gang stalking, that they were imagining things? He could let them know that an anonymous poster on an Internet bulletin board has figured out that no government which is trying to whitewash its international reputation would possibly waste resources on ruining dissidents' lives, instead of simply executing them.

In post #3, gtc says the truth movement is dying. This is also fascinating. Could you show us graphs, charts, etc., demonstrating this?

 

[LightinDarkness]

Oh look, we have a CTer who...wants to bump year old threads! Im glad you did. The gang stalking paranoia is always such a good example of CT lunacy/mental health issues that rise with CT belief, so its nice of you to do so.

I'm interested, could you tell me about this "conspiracy crowd" whose members suddenly believe that they are being gang stalked?

Sure. You can read up about it for yourself here:

http://gangstalkingworld.com/
http://www.multistalkervictims.org/

I know this probably doesn't occur to you, but belief in conspiracies is just about required to suffer from gang stalking delusions. Thus, those who suffer from gang stalking paranoia are members of the "conspiracy crowd." A national organized group hell-bent on harassing people otherwise unimportant in subtle ways that can't be proven to anyone else is a conspiracy.

I find the language and tone of the original post fascinating. LightinDarkness seems to know an awful lot about these people. Could he elaborate?

I find your smug arrogance amusing. You seem to know a lot about it. Can you elaborate?

Could he also explain to the survivors of East Germany's regime, many of whom experienced the Stasi's 'zersetzung' tactics which are similar to gang stalking, that they were imagining things? He could let them know that an anonymous poster on an Internet bulletin board has figured out that no government which is trying to whitewash its international reputation would possibly waste resources on ruining dissidents' lives, instead of simply executing them.

Sure.

You see, there is a difference between living under East Germany's regime and living in a modern democracy. Of course, the reality is that even if you wanted to fantasize that some secret police exists in the US or in European countries, you would need to provide some evidence. We know that the Stasi existed - where is your evidence of these gang stalking police forces and governments spending millions of dollars to covertly harass people for no obvious reason?

Perhaps the government has better things to do than spend countless amounts of money hiring and training covert police forces in complete secrecy whose only job appears to be "harassing" people who pose no threat to the government?

In post #3, gtc says the truth movement is dying. This is also fascinating. Could you show us graphs, charts, etc., demonstrating this?

As a truther I know this is hard for you to accept, but 9/11 was not an inside job and your movement is dying. We know this due to the surveys on the belief in the twoof movement, which show that not only is it laughably small, but its decreasing in numbers. There are numerous posts linking and analyzing these surveys in the 9/11 forum.

 

[Sledge]

Did the Stasis routinely break into people's homes and replace items of clothing with similar but inferior ones, or start going out with a subject's sister with the intent of ruining the subject's love life? It doesn't sound like the sort of thing a secret police force would do.

 

[FriendlyAndLively]

Those aren't terribly good sites. Gang Stalking World, in particular, is only at the top of the Google results because it has Gang Stalking in the title.

I know this probably doesn't occur to you, but belief in conspiracies is just about required to suffer from gang stalking delusions.

What if the gang stalking isn't delusional?

Thus, those who suffer from gang stalking paranoia are members of the "conspiracy crowd."

You say "those who suffer from gang stalking paranoia". What about people who are being stalked by a single person or a small group of people, which is a phenomenon I hope you will not dispute the existence of, seeing as how it's in the DOJ's statistics - they are undoubtedly 'suffering from paranoia'. Are you trying to anchor feelings of being hunted to mental illness?

A national organized group hell-bent on harassing people otherwise unimportant in subtle ways that can't be proven to anyone else is a conspiracy.

Yes, indeed it would be a conspiracy, but what does that have to do with delusional thinking?

I find your smug arrogance amusing. You seem to know a lot about it. Can you elaborate?

I find your word games, disguised as logic, to be transparent.

You see, there is a difference between living under East Germany's regime and living in a modern democracy.

First of all, we in the US don't live in a democracy. Technically, we live in a Constitutional Republic. Second, East Germany called itself a democracy AND a republic, specifically, the German Democratic Republic. The outside world might have known differently, but to the East German citizens who weren't being persecuted by the Stasi, the GDR was a democracy. And the reason they knew this was because the GDR made a point of telling them how free they were. That wall, you see, was there to protect them.

Of course, the reality is that even if you wanted to fantasize that some secret police exists in the US or in European countries, you would need to provide some evidence. We know that the Stasi existed - where is your evidence of these gang stalking police forces and governments spending millions of dollars to covertly harass people for no obvious reason?

You could step back in time to the 1970's as an East German citizen and make the same argument about the existence of the Stasi. The GDR did not tell its citizens they lived in a fascist dictatorship. The citizens had to learn it, the hard way.

Perhaps the government has better things to do than spend countless amounts of money hiring and training covert police forces in complete secrecy whose only job appears to be "harassing" people who pose no threat to the government?

The East German regime switched tactics from execution squads and forced labor camps to more subtle Zersetzung tactics (gang stalking tactics) when it wanted to whitewash its appearance to the world due to the 1975 Helsinki accords; the ranks of the Stasi grew enormously. They did this because from the perspective of people with power, no amount of money is too great to spend to stay in power. The most powerful people in corrupt governments co-opt the machinery of government for their own gain. This is not terribly conspiratorial in nature.

As a truther I know this is hard for you to accept, but 9/11 was not an inside job and your movement is dying. We know this due to the surveys on the belief in the twoof movement, which show that not only is it laughably small, but its decreasing in numbers. There are numerous posts linking and analyzing these surveys in the 9/11 forum.

Obviously, I can't respond to this off the cuff, as I'll have to check through the 9/11 forum's posts. Thank you for that tidbit of information.

 

[gtc]

The stasi had hundreds of thousands of people working directly for them or as informants. Most East Germans also had access to West German broadcasts.

For these reasons, I would be surprised if the East Germans weren't acutely aware of their situation.

 

[fromdownunder]

Why is it that we in Australia are so much more knowledgeable and sophisticated than others. The C.S.I.R.O has developed technology that does not require people to stalk people. We use nano-technology with highly sophisticated computer devices in insects - bees, ants, flies, mosquitos, cicadas, spiders (birds proved to be too expensive and had a tendancy to fly into power poles) and simply monitor them remotely. All such insects carry cameras, and recording devices.

And unlike people, we do not have to pay or feed the super spy spiders. They don't eat. You don't even want to know what we have done with trees.

It is so much easier and cheaper to do it this way. Please, people outside Australia catch up, or contact the C.S.I.R.O. for further information, and a chance to join the revolution.

Norm

 

[Howie Felterbush]

From the Gang Stalking site

Mimicking

This is trying to copy things in a targets life.


Leaving when they do.
Dressing like they dress.
Throwing out the garbage
Going to the bathroom
Doing whatever the target is doing.

This is all designed to be psychological warfare, so that the target again feels like they are under observation at all times.
-----------------------------

Oh crap. Mrs. Beirman next door always takes her garbage out at the same time as me, you know, Wednesday morning, right before the garbageman arrives. I knew she was up to something...Well, I best go kill her. Be right back.

Kidding. I'm a kidder. This is sad. I work with a lady who is very paranoid about, well, everything. She always tells me about this person or that person and how they are persecuting her. She stands really close when she talks and she hardly ever moves her lips while speaking, as if these persecutors are somewhere with binoculars, reading her lips. I try to put her at ease, but I think she believes I'm in on it.

I'm not, by the way.

 

[Brainache]

From the Gang Stalking site

Mimicking

This is trying to copy things in a targets life.


Leaving when they do.
Dressing like they dress.
Throwing out the garbage
Going to the bathroom
Doing whatever the target is doing.

This is all designed to be psychological warfare, so that the target again feels like they are under observation at all times.
-----------------------------

Oh crap. Mrs. Beirman next door always takes her garbage out at the same time as me, you know, Wednesday morning, right before the garbageman arrives. I knew she was up to something...Well, I best go kill her. Be right back.

Kidding. I'm a kidder. This is sad. I work with a lady who is very paranoid about, well, everything. She always tells me about this person or that person and how they are persecuting her. She stands really close when she talks and she hardly ever moves her lips while speaking, as if these persecutors are somewhere with binoculars, reading her lips. I try to put her at ease, but I think she believes I'm in on it.

I'm not, by the way.

Oh sure! Mr Felterbush... She stands really close? Suddenly your surname makes sense...

 

[LightinDarkness]

Those aren't terribly good sites. Gang Stalking World, in particular, is only at the top of the Google results because it has Gang Stalking in the title.

Your opinion doesn't really matter. They are both excellent sites for presenting the delusional and fantastical nature of gang stalking conspiracy claims.

What if the gang stalking isn't delusional?

Argument from ignorance logical fallacy. You have provided no evidence that gang stalking is real, nor has anyone else. Meanwhile, all the evidence suggests - its paranoia and mental illness:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/fashion/13psych.html?pagewanted=all

You say "those who suffer from gang stalking paranoia". What about people who are being stalked by a single person or a small group of people, which is a phenomenon I hope you will not dispute the existence of, seeing as how it's in the DOJ's statistics - they are undoubtedly 'suffering from paranoia'. Are you trying to anchor feelings of being hunted to mental illness?

What about people who are being stalked by a single person? No one has ever claimed such does not exist. You are beating up a straw man. People claiming to be stalked by small groups of people? Unlikely, but sitll unrelated to the gang stalking claims. Nice try to use DOJ statistics on individual stalking to prove gang stalking - shows you really don't have an argument?

Yes, indeed it would be a conspiracy, but what does that have to do with delusional thinking?

Do you even read what you write? You are the one posting arrogant posts about how this isn't conspiracy theory.

I find your word games, disguised as logic, to be transparent.

I find your attempts to ignore logic and reason pretty normal for most conspiracy theorists.

First of all, we in the US don't live in a democracy. Technically, we live in a Constitutional Republic. Second, East Germany called itself a democracy AND a republic, specifically, the German Democratic Republic. The outside world might have known differently, but to the East German citizens who weren't being persecuted by the Stasi, the GDR was a democracy. And the reason they knew this was because the GDR made a point of telling them how free they were. That wall, you see, was there to protect them.

Yawn. First of all, we live in a representative DEMOCRACY. Second of all, if you are incapable of understanding the difference between what systems of governments are and what they call themselves there is little help for you. Do you think China is a republic because its called the Peoples Republic of China? Are you that ignorant?

You could step back in time to the 1970's as an East German citizen and make the same argument about the existence of the Stasi. The GDR did not tell its citizens they lived in a fascist dictatorship. The citizens had to learn it, the hard way.

Wrong. You couldn't. Everyone knew about the existence of the Stasi. NO ONE can provide any evidence of these millions of government operatives trained to harass unimportant people for no obvious reason.

The East German regime switched tactics from execution squads and forced labor camps to more subtle Zersetzung tactics (gang stalking tactics) when it wanted to whitewash its appearance to the world due to the 1975 Helsinki accords; the ranks of the Stasi grew enormously. They did this because from the perspective of people with power, no amount of money is too great to spend to stay in power. The most powerful people in corrupt governments co-opt the machinery of government for their own gain. This is not terribly conspiratorial in nature.

Wrong as usual. Gang stalking tactics involve the supposed training of millions of normal people whose only job is to drive people nuts by doing things like staring at them. Quite different from any tactics the Statsi used.

You can keep beating the dead horse all you want, but you've been debunked. Screaming "but..but..Stasi!!" is not proof of gang stalking claims.

 

[LightinDarkness]

From the Gang Stalking site

Mimicking

This is trying to copy things in a targets life.


Leaving when they do.
Dressing like they dress.
Throwing out the garbage
Going to the bathroom
Doing whatever the target is doing.

This is all designed to be psychological warfare, so that the target again feels like they are under observation at all times.
-----------------------------

Oh crap. Mrs. Beirman next door always takes her garbage out at the same time as me, you know, Wednesday morning, right before the garbageman arrives. I knew she was up to something...Well, I best go kill her. Be right back.

Kidding. I'm a kidder. This is sad. I work with a lady who is very paranoid about, well, everything. She always tells me about this person or that person and how they are persecuting her. She stands really close when she talks and she hardly ever moves her lips while speaking, as if these persecutors are somewhere with binoculars, reading her lips. I try to put her at ease, but I think she believes I'm in on it.

I'm not, by the way.

Wow. I can't imagine working with someone like that. People who are that paranoid could get violent if they think you are in on it.

By the way...would our new conspiracy theorist please tell us how the Statsi used throwing out the trash to harass people? Please describe exactly how the above tactics quoted from the gang stalking site have any similarities to the Stasi. I can't believe anyone could be so ignorant as to read these claims and not see the obvious signs of mental illness, we ARE dealing with CTers...

 

[Eddie Dane]

Think about the logistics of gang stalking.

Imagine being the supervisor of just one gang stalking.

You have to hire about forty people from an enormous pool of willing professional gang stalkers. Do you place an ad or is there a tem agency specialising in this stuff?
Alternatively you have to recruit people from the targets surroundings.

Then you have to instruct them to a lot of very subtle things like dressing alike etc.

What a headache that would be.

I once saw a documentary about the wife of a jailed Chinese dissident. They assigned three goons specially to her. On would guard the entrance of her apartment building. The other two moved into her apartment!

Imagine that: some alfa hotel sitting in your kitchen, smoking, with his feet on the table.
She was not allowed to close the toilet door. This lady was going crazy.

that's what it looks like when a repressive government wants to get it's point across. It's not subtle.

Surveillance is another matter. It's supposed to be covert.

If you're under surveillance and the agents take care to give you subtle hints. Call your shrink.

 

[Sunray Breaker]

I wonder...Would the old Co-intel-pro tactics from the 60's qualify as gang stalking in the past?

I know cointel is dead, but would this be comparable?

Also, I'm curious about this video and what it suggests...From the Gang Stalking Website you listed above:
((((OKAY, NEVER MIND, HOW THE HELL DO YOU EMBED?)

I don't really believe in the woo anymore, but the process underwhich its debunked has become fascinating to watch...

 

[carlitos]

Wow. I just saw "November" and didn't notice this was a year-old thread. Over at the Jesse Ventura show discussion board, I had just read that one of the guys involved with the show is apparently a victim of this. MK Ultra. Project Talent. Open letter to the President. Project Camelot. Etc. Should be a great show!

 

[Eyeron]

The problem is the word gang is misleading. Because of the media supersaturation many people tend to associated it with gang bangers such as the Crips and the bloods. All a gang is a group of people.

 

[carlitos]

From that site FAQ:

What are other Names for Gang Stalking?


There are many names for this form of systemic control and harassment. Under the Gang Stalking label you will also find such terms as Organised Stalking, Cause Stalking, Multi-Stalking, Community Mobbing, but it's all part of the same harassment protocol. What many people do not realise is that Gang Stalking is just one appendage of this systemic form of control. There are other forms of control used to repress, and keep individuals in line. Other forms or appendages include, but are not limited to: Mobbing, Cointelpro, The Buzzsaw, Covert War, Electronic Harassment, etc. These are the just some of the names being given to a very old game, that is once again being played by governments on their unsuspecting citizens.

Why not just call it paranoid schizophrenia since that gets the idea across more accurately?

 

[LightinDarkness]

I wonder...Would the old Co-intel-pro tactics from the 60's qualify as gang stalking in the past?

I know cointel is dead, but would this be comparable?

Also, I'm curious about this video and what it suggests...From the Gang Stalking Website you listed above:
((((OKAY, NEVER MIND, HOW THE HELL DO YOU EMBED?)

I don't really believe in the woo anymore, but the process underwhich its debunked has become fascinating to watch...

I don't think even cointeopro would be an example of historical gang stalking. The CIA used it to target political groups, not individuals. The point of the program was to destroy such movements from within COVERTLY - gang stalking isn't covert, its (supposedly) extremely obvious by those claiming to be gang stalked.

For example, if I want to disrupt a communist group the last thing I want to do is train 20 people to wear coordinating T-Shirts saying DEMOCRACY and have them walk past the communist group leader when he goes out for a walk. All thats going to do is make it obvious.