Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[paximperium]

What is your definition of hearsay?

Answer the question DOC.

 

[Lothian]

Thomas Arnold of Oxford (author of the 3 Volume History of Rome) and Sir William M. Ramsay had enough evidence for their Christian beliefs, I'm sorry you don't.

No, William Ramsay was quite specific. While he confirmed the locations of the bible stories he said there was no evidence for the essential events of the story and to believe them you had to rely on faith.

I have posted this many times before. At the risk of getting into trouble for spamming

The Bearing of Recent Discovery on the Trustworthiness of the New Testament (1915) page 235
"The truth of the historical surroundings in which Luke's narrative places the birth of Jesus does not prove the supreme facts, which give human and divine value to the birth are true."


and

Page 254
"We know that Luke was right in the external facts, because the records have disclosed the whole system of the census ; but as to the inner facts, the birth and the divine nature of Jesus, there can (as said above) be no historical reasoning, for those are a matter of faith, of intuition, and of the individual human being's experience and inner life."


and page 236
The surrounding facts are matter of history, and can be discussed and proved by historical evidence. The essential facts of the narrative are not susceptible of discussion on historical principles, and do not condescend to be tested by historical evidence

I have given you Ramsay's actual words and a link to the source document on several occasions. It is very dishonest of you to say he had enough evidence when he wrote a book specifically saying the evidence was not there.

 

[Akhenaten]

Your most recent posts, less the ones that were cited as spam:

See my previous post

http://www.reasons.org/fulfilled-prophecy-evidence-reliability-bible

http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/historical-secular-quotes-about-jesus/phlegon.html

Unless something is on video tape all historians who write of events they didn't witness are writing hearsay. In other words every college professor today who decides to write a book about something before the invention of film and photography is writing hearsay.

No

Another unexplained post.

This thread is entitled "Evidence for..." not "Proof for..." .

You'll have to read the book from which they came, cited in post #1.

etcetera . . .

Weren't you the one just complaining about spamming??

Yes it was. The rest of us are complaining about your no-content posts.

 

[amb]

Flavius Josephus is brought up again and again as proof for Jesus historical existence. But what is often forgotten is the fact that he devotes ten times the space and references to John The Baptist than he does for the ''son of god''. Isn't that peculiar? Furthermore, most biblical scholars assert that the reference to Jesus is a later interpolation by the christians who would not accept that their messiah is not mentioned at all, or very scantily by such a historian as Josephus.

 

[babbits]

Doc asks: "If a hundred random people in your city say they saw an object that looked like a flying saucer Tuesday night, 2/5/2007. And 1 person in your city said they saw an object that looked like a flying saucer on 5/1/2009. Which day would you say is more likely to have had an object in the sky that looked like a flying saucer."

Insufficient information. I assume you're talking about a u.f.o. of some sort - not a saucer that someone tossed out of a window.

Whether one person saw a 'wonder' or 100 saw it, it's still hearsay without supporting evidence. Literally thousands of people said they saw the sun spinning around the sky and approaching the earth, etc. etc., at Fatima, Portugal, in 1917, and attributed the phenomena to a miracle caused by the spirit of Mary, the mother of Jesus.

But in other parts of the world, no strange solar behavior was reported. And we only have one sun.

So I conclude that the madness of crowds explains the 'testimony' of those thousands of witnesses.

They weren't lying. Just deluded and very, very suggestible.

Add to that the peculiar fact that people really, really want to believe that they will never die. So they desperately want to believe in whatever con man (or sincerely schizoid delusional 'visionary') tells them, so long as it helps them pretend they will never die.

And it's not just about religious matters. Politicians routinely think up something to scare people with come election time. Doesn't matter if the threat is imaginary. That causes people to vote for whoever made up the story, in the belief that 'they' will know what to do about the imaginary threat. Usually it's to attack some small, less technically advanced, poorer nation. And spend trillions on armaments, etc.

As a species, we're pretty dumb.

 

[six7s]

Your most recent posts, less the ones that were cited as spam:

See my previous post

http://www.reasons.org/fulfilled-prophecy-evidence-reliability-bible

http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/historical-secular-quotes-about-jesus/phlegon.html

Unless something is on video tape all historians who write of events they didn't witness are writing hearsay. In other words every college professor today who decides to write a book about something before the invention of film and photography is writing hearsay.

No

Another unexplained post.

This thread is entitled "Evidence for..." not "Proof for..." .

You'll have to read the book from which they came, cited in post #1.

etcetera . . .

Weren't you the one just complaining about spamming??

Yes it was. The rest of us are complaining about your no-content posts.

DOC's own brand: Diet SPAM^TM - Twice the fat and half the taste!

 

[Simon39759]

Answer the question DOC.

You know he is only going to copy-paste from some online dictionary and not think about how it relates, right?


I think I am giving up on the thread as I gave up on Doc. He has a few discredited "evidences" and repeat it, thinking that just stubborn refusal of admitting defeat ultimately leads to victory.
I bet, if he played a game of chess, once his king his captured, he would keep on playing, claiming his remaining pawns are engaged in guerilla warfare...

 

[Akhenaten]

The fact that pawns are willing to be martyrs is evidence that DOC's king wasn't captured. The fact that I wrote this proves it is true.

 

[six7s]

I bet, if he played a game of chess, once his king his captured, he would keep on playing, claiming his remaining pawns are engaged in guerilla warfare...

The fact that pawns are willing to be martyrs is evidence that DOC's king wasn't captured. The fact that I wrote this proves it is true.

Nominated

 

[Mister Agenda]

Snip
Whether one person saw a 'wonder' or 100 saw it, it's still hearsay without supporting evidence. Literally thousands of people said they saw the sun spinning around the sky and approaching the earth, etc. etc., at Fatima, Portugal, in 1917, and attributed the phenomena to a miracle caused by the spirit of Mary, the mother of Jesus.

But in other parts of the world, no strange solar behavior was reported. And we only have one sun.

So I conclude that the madness of crowds explains the 'testimony' of those thousands of witnesses.

They weren't lying. Just deluded and very, very suggestible.
Snip

Staring at the sun is likely to produce optical illusions of the sun moving about. Your eyes know better than to stare at the sun even if you don't, and involuntary eye movements trying to shift one's gaze off the sun will make it seem like the sun is moving when you've been staring at it too long.

 

[Akhenaten]

It could also be the Aten moving in mysterious ways.

 

[Simon39759]

Nominated

Indeed, a truly masterful achievement, o servant of the Aten.

 

[paximperium]

Indeed, a truly masterful achievement, o servant of the Aten.

The servant of Aten has achieved much more than the servant of Jesus...and with less post to boot.

 

[RoboTimbo]

What is your definition of hearsay?

Answer the question DOC.

DOC, while you're busy providing definitions:

DOC, do you have a definition of "circular reasoning" handy from one of the textbooks from the logic course you took? Could you provide it here? I think I'm using a different definition than you.

 

[six7s]

Circular Reasoning:

• Pluck some crap from your fundamental orifice
• Combine with nonsense cherry picked from various sources
• Mash it all up
• Use mash to spam ignorant atheists
• Polish your halo
• Rinse
• Repeat

 

[Simon39759]

Oh... Hence the term "fundamentalist" Christianity...

 

[six7s]

I'll be here, all weak

 

[Akhenaten]

The search for evidence that the New Testament writers told the truth.

Part 1


Once upon a time, 3 wise men set off across the desert in search of evidence that the Messiah of the Old Testament had arrived.

It was 0 BCE and they're headed for Nazareth. Anybody wish to guess what they'll find?


Part 2 will soon be out there for all to see.

 

[Lucian]

The search for evidence that the New Testament writers told the truth.

Part 1


Once upon a time, 3 wise men set off across the desert in search of evidence that the Messiah of the Old Testament had arrived.

[qimg]http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/3WiseMen01.gif[/qimg]​

It was 0 BCE and they're headed for Nazareth. Anybody wish to guess what they'll find?


Part 2 will soon be out there for all to see.

Will Part 2 be spread out over upwards of 1400 posts? If not, I don't see how you can expect us to take you seriously.

 

[babbits]

Jesus also said in Matthew 10:14,

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet."


And yet, you are still here.

Yeah, I feel kind of guilty for picking on the guy. But he keeps coming back for more! I would prefer if the 'points' he attempts were done by several people.

It can only be that he savors every rebuttal:

" 10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."