Truthers and anti-Semitism

CHF said:
By now we're all familiar with the well-documented Jew haters in the truther ranks like the American Free Press, Christopher Bollyn, Eric Hufschmid, and those who spread the story about how 4,000 Jews didn't show up to work at the WTC on 9/11.

While the reaction of most truthers is to dismiss these people as crackpots, racists or "disinfo" (unless you're DR Griffin in which case you quote them in your books), it's hard to see why truthers are so quick to throw these people overboard.

I mean given what truthers believe, how can they NOT suspect the Jews?

The essence of most conspiracy theories is that there is a small group of powerful people who manipulate world events in order to:

- make money
- kill people
- plunge the world into war and chaos
- unite the world under a single flag
- all of the above

Now consider the fact that Jews are a relatively small group of people (15 million worldwide) who tend to place great emphasis on education and person success.

This has resulted in Jews being a very academic, educated, successful and organized people. They are disproportionately represented in fields like business, finance, banking, politics, science, academia, entertainment, media etc. - every field that you'd need in order to influence world events and pull off some vast diabolical plot.

Seriously - the Jews embody everything that a conspiracy calls for!

With such positions of influence in so many fields, it's no wonder why conspiracy theorists have been "connecting the dots" for centuries and blaming the Jews for all that goes wrong in the world.

I've personally talked to truthers who rant against the Rothschilds, "the bankers," and "the elites" but when asked to define "them" there's an awkward silence. It's as if we both know what he wants to say, but he knows how bad it sounds.

The well-known Jew-haters in the TM aren't some sort of abberation or fringe group. Their beliefs are the logical outcome of the twisted mindset that truthers have.
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Three words:

Israeli Art Students
 
Algebra34 said:
Didn't start that way with me. You're not generalizing or stereotyping now are you? Because that's not nice.

When I first heard them on 9/11 insinuate it was middle eastern terrorists I thought it was kind of racist to do so before anyone knew anything. I remembered the same thing happened with Oklahoma City with the first reports. We all know how that turned out. Someone from INSIDE this country. INSIDE.
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Steven Emerson was one of those who early on claimed the Oklahoma City bombing was the work of middle eastern terrorists. We all know who is behind Steven Emerson.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1443
 
RedIbis said:
To illustrate how poor your logic is and what is wrong this whole line of thinking: I didn't need Hufschmid or Bollyn to tell me about bombs in the basement, I was able to interview the source myself and from what I can tell, he's no anti-semite.

As much as you hope so, bombs in the basement and evidence of explosives doesn't begin nor end with Hufschmid or Bollyn, two long forgotten numbskulls, kept on life support only here on jref and nowhere else. That says a lot more about you than about this fantasy truth movement you keep harping on.
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There were no bombs in the basements. However, the explosions were real. They were caused by exploding fuel going down the service elevators when the planes hit the buildings.
 
WildCat said:
Face it RedIbis, the entire truth movement was founded by anti-semites. Without the anti-semites there would be no truth movement. They were an essential part of it, kind of like having a fact is an essential start to that Fact Movement of yours. Have you found a fact yet?
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Wrong.

Thierry Meyssan wrote the first book questioning 9/11. He was an anti-racist activist.
 
ref said:
You are on the right track here. There wasn't any plan to start a "truth movement" by any group of people. Many of those who first came up with popular truther theories were anti-semitic. But a fact is, that all of them were not.

For example, Jared Israel came up with the NORAD stand down theory, which is still largely supported by almost every member of the TM. But Jared Israel is a strong supporter of Israel and an avid opposer of any anti-semitic conspiracy theories.

Griffin supports Jared Israel's NORAD stand down theories. Does this mean now, that Griffin is not anti-semitic after all? Of course not, neither does him quoting Bollyn make him anti-semitic.

People here have to understand that these TM leaders want these theories, regardless of the people who came up with them. In many (or most) occasions they may not even know who first came up with these ideas. They just know that this or that theory fits their world view, and they adopt that theory.

Of course, there are some shady occasions when Jones hangs out with Bollyn, probably well aware of his background. Him and Griffin could at least make it more clear, that they support the theories, not the people behind them.

But in general, the entire movement can not be labeled anti-semitic just because many theories they support have originated from anti-semites, because many theories they support did not originate from anti-semites. This movement simply picks up theories they like. Even if we erased all the anti-semites from the history of 9/11 TM, there would still be a 9/11 TM. There are always people, who don't buy the "official explanations" and look for something different. Anti-semites may be well represented in this category, but they do not represent the entire population of people, who doubt the government.

If some regular TM guy claims the towers fell into their footprints, does he have to know that a guy called Jim McMichael first came up with this idea, which was then copied by Eric Hufschmid and Jim Hoffman, which was then adopted by Griffin after he researched for more evidence after reading the Paul Thompson timeline? Can we now claim, that because this regular TM guy had read a Griffin book and consequently claimed the towers fell into their footprints, that he must retract this claim because Jim McMichael might have been anti-semitic? This TM guy probably has no idea who this Jim McMichael guy is, heck, even Griffin probably has no clue! They subscribe to the ideas!

This is very complicated. Although many representatives of the TM fit the description, and they probably should know more about the origins, it's not all that simple folks. But I must say I think it's healthy for every member of the TM (and debunker alike) to understand, that these theories started very early, and they were mostly started by people who were very opposed to anything "official" to begin with. They used this as an opportunity to spread their world views.
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Excellent post. Nominated
 
scott.in.taiwan said:
What would be disagreeing with? Gage and others are preying on an audience that's susceptible to his message. They're susceptible for all kinds of reasons. One might be the false perception that somehow all Muslims are responsible and the discrimiination that comes with that. It might be that for historical reasons, the idea that Isreal and an international Jewish conspiracy blames Muslims for bad things they never did seems reasonable to some - but certainly not all, or even many - Muslims. Kevin Barrett would be one of these, but I can give the names of others that you can meet on Facebook.

It's clear that Gage and his gang are moving off shore. There simply are no more than a couple of Americans they can recruit to their money-making 911 venture. Who else would they aim their targets at? French structural engineers? Punk rock kids in Birmingham?

The ideology of 911 Truth sprung from the suggestion that Isreal was behind it. You still get questions about this popping up here. Just because some kid in New Jersey doesn't realize why Kevin Barrett claims some hijackers are still alive doesn't mean his repeating the story makes it any less an anti-Semitic remark. It's all packaged in their and this is the only audience left for Gage for these guys.

By the way, on Facebook, the off shore Truthers regularly claim that American Truthers like Avery are Jewish shills.
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Has it been established that Dylan Avery is Jewish?
 
MaGZ said:
Has it been established that Dylan Avery is Jewish?
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I have no idea. I only know that Avery is accused of being a schill distracting people from the the real issue of the worldwide Jewish connection that brought about 911.
 
scott.in.taiwan said:
I have no idea. I only know that Avery is accused of being a schill distracting people from the the real issue of the worldwide Jewish connection that brought about 911.
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I don't understand MagZ's question here: If the OP claims that Truthers and antisemitism go hand in hand, how in the world could Avery [ "teh Jew" ] be an Israel-supporter and a Truther at the same time? :boggled:
 
ref said:
I have to disagree again. A couple of years ago I researched the origins of various truther claims, and the people behind them.

Who were among the first more influential "truthers"?

Alex Jones, of course. He never blames Israel.

Peter Meyer, two days after the attacks, wrote about "The World Trade Center Bombing". Although he otherwise promotes anti-semitic content, he did not blame Israel, but US.




Jared Israel, four days after the attacks, came up with the idea about the NORAD stand-down: "Criminal Negligence or Treason?". Jared strongly opposes any anti-semitic theories, and is a strong supported of Israel, so no blaming of Israel here either.


Carol A. Valentine started a lot of theories with her article "Operation 911: No Suicide Pilots", and yes she takes jabs at Israel and is anti-semitic.


But then, only a month after the attacks appeared the most influental WTC demolition article, which has influenced numerous high profile truthers, "Muslims Suspend the Laws of Physics" by Jim McMichael. Not a word about Israel.


Let move on to March, 2002. The most popular 9/11 Truth book ever is released: "9/11: The Big Lie" by Thierry Meyssan. A huge success. Tops the french sales charts, translated to 28 languages. Starts numerous new theories, like the claims that there was no plane at the Pentagon. Meyssan's success influences the likes of Hufschmid and others. And who does Meyssan blame? US Government, not Israel.

These abovementioned people were the strong influences in the very early stages of 9/11 truth. They planted the seeds, made the claims, came up with theories that we still hear today. And by large, most of them did not blame Israel, but the US Government.

So I really find it difficult to agree with the claim, that the ideology of 911 Truth sprung from the suggestion that Israel was behind it. Some people believed that, and many people later adopted that mindset, but it was not a dominant view among these early influental TM characters in the very beginning.

Interesting discussion by the way, rare in here these days. :)
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A list of facts/factoids that started the idea the Jews were behind 9/11.

* Israel's statement that all 4,000 Israelis in the WTC area were alive and well.

* Odigo warning

* Dancing Israelis in New Jersey

* Netanyahu says the 9/11 attacks were "good for Israel"

* Israel Art Student/Mossad revelations on Fox News in December 2001
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
To truthers it does.

Why don't we get your fellow travellers Magz, Kageki and 9-11 Investigator in here (if we can pull him away from his holocaust denial goat rodeo in the history section) and ask them if Bush, Cheney, Rice and Guiliani are all jews?
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Here!

Bush, Cheney, Rice and Guiliani just promote the Jew's agenda.
 
MaGZ said:
* Israel's statement that all 4,000 Israelis in the WTC area were alive and well.
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Uh, so what? I mean the German Government reported about the German victims as well. What's so confusing about the fact that Governments publish statements regarding their citizens in case of a terrorist attack. I mean: seriously

MaGZ said:
* Odigo warning
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The Odigo warnings were sent to Israelis ... in Israel, not Jews in the WTC. So what?
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Odigo

MaGZ said:
* Dancing Israelis in New Jersey
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What does a group of dancing Jewish Teenagers have to do with the Israeli Government? :confused:

MaGZ said:
* Netanyahu says the 9/11 attacks were "good for Israel"
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Which seems to be pretty factual in light of getting rid of some of Israel's problems called "Muslim Terrorism" and "Saddam Hussein", is it not? :confused:

MaGZ said:
* Israel Art Student/Mossad revelations on Fox News in December 2001
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Linky?
 
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MaGZ said:
Here!

Bush, Cheney, Rice and Guiliani just promote the Jew's agenda.
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Which isn't a surprise to anyone given the close relations between the US and Israel ... even besides influential lobbies.
 
Oliver said:
Uh, so what? I mean the German Government reported about the German victims as well. What's so confusing about the fact that Governments publish statements regarding their citizens in case of a terrorist attack. I mean: seriously




The Odigo warnings were sent to Israelis ... in Israel, not Jews in the WTC. So what?
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Odigo




What does a group of dancing Jewish Teenagers have to do with the Israeli Government? :confused:




Which seems to be pretty factual in light of getting rid of some of Israel's problems called "Muslim Terrorism" and "Saddam Hussein", is it not? :confused:




Linky?
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http://www.antiwar.com/israeli-files.php
 
Oliver said:
Uh, so what? I mean the German Government reported about the German victims as well. What's so confusing about the fact that Governments publish statements regarding their citizens in case of a terrorist attack. I mean: seriously
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This was the genesis of the story all 4000 Israelis were warned of the attacks in advance and escaped the WTC destruction. This was picked up by Hezbollah media the next day and twisted into a report of an Israeli early warning.
 
MaGZ said:
This was the genesis of the story all 4000 Israelis were warned of the attacks in advance and escaped the WTC destruction. This was picked up by Hezbollah media the next day and twisted into a report of an Israeli early warning.
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Well, as far I remember, Jews actually died in the towers. So why would you trust Hezbollah more than the actual facts concerning Jewish deaths? :confused:

In other words, why didn't the Israeli Government manage to warn those Jews that actually died in the towers? :boggled:
 
Oliver said:
The Odigo warnings were sent to Israelis ... in Israel, not Jews in the WTC. So what?
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The Odigo warning was significant. It was likely sent by one of the Mossad agents when he saw the hijackers board the planes. The warning was just reported in Israel, others likely received it.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2001/wpost092801.html

"The Odigo service includes a feature called People Finder that allows users to seek out and contact others based on certain interests or demographics. Diamandis said Thursday that it was possible the attack warning was broadcast to other Odigo members, but the company has not received reports of other recipients of the message."
 
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