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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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DOC said:
Christ mentions angels, that's good enough for me, if not for others so be it.

Here is another fact about angels:

From the article: What does the Bible teach about angels?

Angels are mentioned at least 108 times in the Old Testament and 165 times in the New Testament

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t005.html
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Tolkien mentions trolls, that's good enough for me, if not for others so be it.

Here is another fact about trolls:

From the article: What does the Lord of the Rings teach about trolls?

Trolls are mentioned at least 457 832 times in the The Hobbit and 493 875 835 times in the Ring trilogy.

See this massively popular thread for details:

Middle Earth - the Untold Story the White
 
DOC said:
Christ mentions angels, that's good enough for me, if not for others so be it.
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DOC, do you think the unascended Jesus Christ was fully human, i.e. a product of his times with its attendant understandings of the world, or omniscient so that he knew that Saturn Vs would take man to the moon?
 
DOC said:
And I assume your evidence of that is you have never seen one?
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Oh no! Your wrong. I see angels every day. You see, I'm a sales rep. I'm on the road every day. In my travels I see angels in shopping malls, walking the street, driving their cars. And then I also see angels when they serve me a beer at my favourite bar. ;)
 
One additional reason that dating the books is important is due to the nature of legendary development. We’re all probably familiar with the way legends or myths can develop about an event, given enough time. In fact, history is full of strange and outrageous stories of Jesus or the apostles doing bizarre things (e.g., Jesus marrying Mary Magdalene and having a child). The one thing these legends have in common is that they were created by people who lived many generations and often hundreds of years removed from the time Jesus and the apostles lived.
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Marrying and having children is "strange...outrageous...bizarre"?
 
Ooh yeah!


BuddyChrist.jpg



Here's lookin' at you, kid.
 
DOC said:
So what is it you are saying?
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You read the texts I posted and went to the links, of course.
And you really think there's nothing extraordinary in the similarities in expression, arguments and down to the same quotations amongst the 3 sources?

I think your own explanation is quite probable, that both you and the blogger receive their ideas from the preaching at that 'ministries' site you linked us to.

Even so, I find the similarity quite remarkable.

So.
Any new evidence?
 
DOC said:
There was probably 2. But one person could have noticed only one angel and not noticed the other one maybe standing 30 feet to her side or behind her. Whereas the other witness did notice both angels. It happens all the time where witnesses see different details.
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Not notice an angel of the lord inside the tomb of your messiah?
OK.
Not notice an earthquake?
OK.

The thing is, DOC, the 4 accounts are so diverse it's really difficult to imagine anyone reading them and believing the NT writers told the truth.
zooterkin posted up a relation between the four Gospel writers versions of that first Sunday morning.

Here it is:
http://www.internationalskeptics.co...3290&highlight=angel+tomb+morning#post5243290
 
DOC said:
So you want historical and archaeological evidence for almost every verse of something that happened 2000 years ago. That doesn't make sense. Do you want evidence that the rooster that Peter heard crow existed. Do you want evidence that the boat the apostles got on existed. I don't understand your argument. We don't even have contemporary writings for Alexander the Great who history says conquered much of the known world and yet you want historical and archaeological evidence for every 2 or 3 verses in the NT.
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Well, really, I just find it odd that there are 2000+ verses written by these authors, and yet only 140-odd are actually verified to be true. I mean, if we want to play the numbers game (one of your faves), then that requires that we must acknowledge that out of 2000+ verses, 140 are factual and the other 1860+ are, at the least, an unknown.

Given that there are far more unknowns than knowns (by more than a factor), arguing that there are X number of facts rather hurts your side, Doc. I mean, if you really, truly believe the NT is true, then shouldn't every verse be factual? But I don't see you arguing that, much less convincingly arguing that there are 140 facts between these two guys.


I see you've since brought up the number of times angels were mentioned in the bible. Well, there are approx 300 times angels are mentioned in the bible, there are 31,103 (give or take a hundred that have been added/deleted) verses in the bible. Given that there are 300 mentions of angels, that means there are 30,800 non-mentions of angels. Given that there are 2 factors of non-mentions more than mentions, angels cannot exist.
 
This thread is still going? When are you all going to realise that DOC is not amenable to rational argument?
 
politas said:
This thread is still going? When are you all going to realise that DOC is not amenable to rational argument?
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He might not be, but perhaps a lurker out there will read my posts and realize just how foolish Doc (and the other apologists he shares arguments with) look spouting their fallacies in the face of, well, facts.
 
DOC said:
There was probably 2. But one person could have noticed only one angel and not noticed the other one maybe standing 30 feet to her side or behind her. Whereas the other witness did notice both angels. It happens all the time where witnesses see different details.
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And how many witnesses were there? Was Jesus's mother among them?
 
DOC said:
Another post where a someone talks of errors as if they are proven and have no explanations. I've already given explanations for your theory of errors with Paul's conversion, and Paul's actions after his conversions. Regarding geneology, one geneology could have been for Joseph and one for Mary. I have never seen one supposed error in the New Testament that does not have a logical explanation for it.
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And yet, Onesiscritus is wrong and a liar to mention that Alexander visited the Amazons...
Because it's absolutely impossible that: a) He was right and the Amazon existed and just did not left archaeological remain [a bit like you claim that the slaughter of the innocent did not leave archaeological remain or testimony outside of the Bible] or b) That it was metaphorical for example, a side-way allusion to his relationship to the warrior Hephaestion.


The thing is that, with enough apologetics, you can rationalize absolutely anything away.
Yet, at some point, it is absolutely justified to sit down and wonder why an accurate text, let alone the inherent word of God, would require so much twisting to comply to reality.
At this point, really, the most logical explanation is that the many apparent errors are just that, errors.



DOC said:
Christ mentions angels, that's good enough for me, if not for others so be it.
Here is another fact about angels:
From the article: What does the Bible teach about angels?
Angels are mentioned at least 108 times in the Old Testament and 165 times in the New Testament
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t005.html
Click to expand...


The Bible also has several references (a dozen or so, I believe) to unicorn. Is it good enough for you too?
 
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