Deeper than primes

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No, you try again.

I gave you all you need in order to understand why the standard Cardinality is a partial case of Complexity.

Take it or leave it, it is up to you.

No you didn't. Asking for you to define terms, and then not define those terms shows that you can't understand simple requests. I'll leave it then. If Cardinality is, as you claim, a partial case of Complexity, why do you get a knot in your undies when we point out you are using cardinality improperly? Why don't you invent your own term and use it properly?

Oh, define Complexity one more time.
 
I was tempted earlier to comment on Doron's approach to definition, but I decided to give him the opportunity to answer your simple request.

Past experience on this thread that he prefers not to define terms unless it suits him, and then only in words that he has re-defined to mean what he wants them to mean. Earlier in the thread, this was referred to as the 'Humpty Dumpty' approach. If you go down the road of requiring Doronish definitions, it's only fair to warn you that it's a long, winding, and recursive one, typically ending roughly where it started.
 
Well, in all fairness, why would you need definitions for something that has absolutely no utility? While Doron continues to traverse his circles of gibberish and contradiction, he has yet to produce a single, tangible application for his new-found mathematical nonsense.

Even his one ally, Moshe Klein, "doesn't get it," so what hope is there for the world at large? (Hopefully, Moshe is recovering from his traumatic rejection by Doron and on the return path to the real world.)
 
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The Man said:
thus “non-common w.r.t the given domain” is simply nonsense.
No, it is not nonsense.

Non common means that the point is not included in the considered domains.
A local value is common to several domains and in this case we get a single domain w.r.t the common local value. For example: the domain of prime numbers and the domain of odd numbers has a common value, called 2 and these domains are a one domain w.r.t value 2.

2 can be in one and only one state w.r.t to some considered domains, such that:

It is common (belongs to both domains) XOR non-common (does not belong to any of the domains XOR belongs to one of the considered domains.
A non-local element can belong common AND non-common w.r.t to the considered domains, which is a property that no local element has.

The Man said:
“On top of”? What is “on top of” a single dimensional space?
In a one dimensional space we can use “along” instead of “on top of”.

In both cases there is the non-local stage _________ and the local players ___ ___ ___ along it, such that the stage is non-local w.r.t each player, and each player is local w.r.t the stage.

Furthermore, no amount of players is the stage.

The Man said:
So what, any point can also “be non-local with respect to some domain”
You are invited to demonstrate your argument.
 
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No you didn't. Asking for you to define terms, and then not define those terms shows that you can't understand simple requests. I'll leave it then. If Cardinality is, as you claim, a partial case of Complexity, why do you get a knot in your undies when we point out you are using cardinality improperly? Why don't you invent your own term and use it properly?

Oh, define Complexity one more time.
Complexity is the result of Relation\Element Interactions (REI) (see http://www.scribd.com/doc/16542245/OMPT page 3).

It is clearly and simply shown in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5152170&postcount=6034 how standard Cardinality is the first level of REI.
 
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No, it is not nonsense.

As written it is nonsense.

Non common means that the point is not included in the considered domains.
A local value is common to several domains and in this case we get a single domain w.r.t the common local value. For example: the domain of prime numbers and the domain of odd numbers has a common value, called 2 and these domains are a one domain w.r.t value 2.

No they are still two domains since they are, well, defined differently. If you consider the two domains as one by whatever misconceptions you may have then it becomes a singular domain by that ascription and can have nothing uncommon with itself. Your problems again result from you inconsistent application of concepts.

ETA:

Since when is 2 “odd”?

2 can be in one and only one state w.r.t to some considered domains, such that:

It is common (belongs to both domains) XOR non-common (does not belong to any of the domains XOR belongs to one of the considered domains.
A non-local element can belong common AND non-common w.r.t to the considered domains, which is a property that no local element has.

By your above definition a line segment is common to both domains if it is included in both domains. If your definition is flexibly enough to consider a line common to both domains if some portion of that line is in each domain, even if the domains do not have the same portion of that line in common, then the line is common to those domains by that definition. You simply wish to apply your definition without consistency to claim that it is both common and non-common which are mutually exclusive. Again you simply demonstrate the self inconsistent and indefinite nature of your notions.

In a one dimensional space we can use “along” instead of “on top of”.

In both cases there is the non-local stage _________ and the local players ___ ___ ___ along it, such that the stage is non-local w.r.t each player, and each player is local w.r.t the stage.

You can and do use what ever words you want, it still does not give them any relevant meaning.

Furthermore, no amount of players is the stage.

It is the ability to represent the line as a union of the non disjoint and closed sets representing the line segments that specifically makes the line a continuous and connected space. If you are claiming that a disjoint or discontinuous and disconnected space is not a continuous and connected space, well, that is simply trivial.

You are invited to demonstrate your argument.

In a self consistent and generally consistent definition of the term local it is simply a defined domain, anything not within or connected to that domain in the space being considered is defined as non-local. Your self-inconsistent notions and indefinite ascriptions based on those notions are simply irrelevant.
 
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Well, in all fairness, why would you need definitions for something that has absolutely no utility? While Doron continues to traverse his circles of gibberish and contradiction, he has yet to produce a single, tangible application for his new-found mathematical nonsense.

Even his one ally, Moshe Klein, "doesn't get it," so what hope is there for the world at large? (Hopefully, Moshe is recovering from his traumatic rejection by Doron and on the return path to the real world.)


It is precisely Doron’s lack of definition and consistency that leads him to believe his notions have some utility not already accommodated (even if he can not specifically define that utility). Once the notions are defined and applied consistently the illusion of some missed utility disappears.
 
Complexity is the result of Relation\Element Interactions (REI) (see http://www.scribd.com/doc/16542245/OMPT page 3).

It is clearly and simply shown in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5152170&postcount=6034 how standard Cardinality is the first level of REI.

Can't you remember your own definitions?
In both theories, Collection is the result of Relation\Element Interactions (REI), where the cardinality (the magnitude of existence) of this result is greater than zero and less than infinity.
Your paper. Third page.

Also the second page mentions
By OM, Cardinal or Magnitude is the measurement unit of the existence of a thing.

So which is it?

What is not understood is my question, by you.
 
Which of the words in "absolutely no utility" did you not understand, or was it the three of them together as a phrase that escaped your comprehension?

Let us look again at this complexity:

Code:
{} = ___

{{}} = __|__

           |_
{{{}}} = __|__

             |_|_
{{{{}}}} = __|__

                              |_    |_|_
{ {}, {{}}, {{{}}} } = __|____|_____|____

1) If we ignore the complexity of each member then |{ {}, {{}}, {{{}}} }| = 3

2) If we do not ignore the complexity of each member then |{ {}, {{}}, {{{}}} }| = 6

Since your utility is strictly limited to (1) , then (2) has no utility under (1) limitations.

(1) limitation can't measure the existence of complexity because it is tuned to ignore the inner stricture of each member, and as a result, cardinality is the measurement of existence of different members, which cannot avoid the internal structure of each member in order to consider its existence (as a black-box) as a considered element the influences the value of some cardinality.

(1) only approach is an appropriate utility for certain purposes, but from a wider view of the existence of the measured things, this utility is a partial case of (2), and enables us to choose any degree of complexity we wish to choose between (1) and (2) (where (1) and (2) may be included or not) for some utility.

The current standard (1) approach about Cardinality must not be taken a universal principle of Complexity, since it is clearly a partial case of the measured things that avoids the existing internal complexity of each existing thing (which its existence is taken only as a black-box).
 
Can't you remember your own definitions?
Your paper. Third page.

Also the second page mentions

So which is it?


What is not understood is my question, by you.

Again:

Cardinality is the measurement unite of the existence of things.

If you agree with this definition then emptiness has Cardinality 0, Fullness has Cardinality , and any existing thing that is not 0 or has Cardinality (notated as x) , such that 0 < x < , where the measurement of the Cardinality of x can be based on black-box approach about the existence of the measured thing, or considers also the internal structure of the measured things as a factor of Cardinality's value.
 
The Man said:
In a self consistent and generally consistent definition of the term local it is simply a defined domain, anything not within or connected to that domain in the space being considered is defined as non-local.

Here is exactly where you fail to understand Non-locality.

Non-locality is exactly the state that does not care about the existence of any given domain (it is both belong AND does not belong to it).

That is strictly does not belong to some domain is local with respect to that domain, and therefore your example is wrong.

Now back to out one dimensional space, each one of the ___ ___ ___ domains are local w.r.t _________ because they belong XOR do not belong to it.

On the contrary _________ is non-local w.r.t to the ___ ___ ___ domains because it belongs AND does not belong to each one of them.

The Man said:
It is precisely Doron’s lack of definition and consistency that leads him to believe his notions have some utility not already accommodated
In order to conclude that, you first have to show that you understand Locality, Non-locality, and the result of their linkage.

You are not there, yet, simply because you get anything only in terms of Locality, that is understood only in step-by-step reasoning.
 
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Again:

Cardinality is the measurement unite of the existence of things.

If you agree with this definition then emptiness has Cardinality 0, Fullness has Cardinality , and any existing thing that is not 0 or has Cardinality (notated as x) , such that 0 < x < , where the measurement of the Cardinality of x can be based on black-box approach about the existence of the measured thing, or considers also the internal structure of the measured things as a factor of Cardinality's value.

Once again you simply misrepresent the notion of cardinality
 
Here is exactly where you fail to understand Non-locality.

Non-locality is exactly the state that does not care about the existence of any given domain (it is both belong AND does not belong to it).

That is strictly does not belong to some domain is local with respect to that domain, and therefore your example is wrong.

Now back to out one dimensional space, each one of the ___ ___ ___ domains are local w.r.t _________ because the belong XOR do not belong to it.

On the contrary _________ is non-local w.r.t to the ___ ___ ___ domains because it belongs AND does not belong to each one of them.

Here is exactly why your notions are self contradictory and self inconsistent; if the “existence of any given domain” (as you put it) is irrelevant to your “Non-locality” then it is meaningless to define your “Non-locality” in reference to some “given domain”. Yet you continually assert such a reference as “belongs AND does not belong” in reference to such domains as evidence for and the basis of your “Non-locality”. Take as much time as you need (say another 20 years perhaps) and get back to us when your notions are at least consistent with, well, your notions.
 
Again.

n = 1 to ∞

Any n space is a stage\players linkage where both stage and players can be the same dimension.

The stage is Non-local w.r.t the players and the players a local w.r.t the stage.

This notion is generalized to any given domain (metrical, logical, membership, etc …) as follows:

For any given X there is a unitary logical connective not-X.

If X is a domain, then not-X is not that domain.

If Y is local then it (belongs) XOR (does not belong) to (X OR not-X).

If Y is non-local then it (belongs) AND (does not belong) to (X OR not-X).
 
Here is exactly why your notions are self contradictory and self inconsistent; if the “existence of any given domain” (as you put it) is irrelevant to your “Non-locality” then it is meaningless to define your “Non-locality” in reference to some “given domain”. Yet you continually assert such a reference as “belongs AND does not belong” in reference to such domains as evidence for and the basis of your “Non-locality”. Take as much time as you need (say another 20 years perhaps) and get back to us when your notions are at least consistent with, well, your notions.

In your case it will take forever, since you get anything only in terms of Locality.
 
Once again you simply misrepresent the notion of cardinality
Once again you can't make the needed step in your mind in order to realize that traditional Cardinality is based on partial measurement of member's complexity.
 
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