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Army Strong

Hi there! I'm new to this forum, so i'm not familiar with the patterns of discussion and debate etc.. but i am finding the topics i have scanned so far quite interesting!

With regards to the vidio and the responces made to it, i was a little shocked at how unecessarily rude some of the statements were??? (especially from quad4 72???)

The vidio is surely of interest in its own right? and if not, then why comment at all?


I have two friends who are 'peace activists'.. Ron Kovic and Ted Quinn
and the message they seem to want to get across is that basically war causes more harm than good.. and i suppose the more people that realise that, the more chance the world has for a change for the better.
This vidio being a tiny component in work towards that potential change.

Thanks for posting it JJ!

Best wishes, super nova


War causes more harm than good? Theres news.

Of course it does- thats why its war but then that also depends on what you are measuring.

Its not "the people" who need to get the message- they already know. Its the groups and their leaders who START ( or threaten to) the wars that they need to get to.

Nobody hates war more than the soldiers who fight it- know why?

Guess who dies in it.

The problem is that there are some really bad people out there who wont listen to anything except the business end of a barrel
 
Hi there! I'm new to this forum, so i'm not familiar with the patterns of discussion and debate etc.. but i am finding the topics i have scanned so far quite interesting!

With regards to the vidio and the responces made to it, i was a little shocked at how unecessarily rude some of the statements were??? (especially from quad4 72???)

The vidio is surely of interest in its own right? and if not, then why comment at all?


I have two friends who are 'peace activists'.. Ron Kovic and Ted Quinn
and the message they seem to want to get across is that basically war causes more harm than good.. and i suppose the more people that realise that, the more chance the world has for a change for the better.
This vidio being a tiny component in work towards that potential change.

Thanks for posting it JJ!

Best wishes, super nova

You would have to know JihadJanes post history to know why I am immediately hostile towards her. Not to mention it is in extremely bad taste to spam the forums with links to things without any explanation as to what they are or any opinion provided.

As to your post, that is simply a fantasy world. War has been around since the beginning of history, and that will never change. You say war causes more harm than good. I beg to differ. If people would not have defied Germany in World War II and tried to be peaceful with them, the Nazis would have dominated Europe and completely wiped out the jews. The French learned this the hard way when they attempted to be peaceful. Being a peace activist is extremely easy in America. I would love to see peace activists go to Somalia, Afghanistan, or Iraq and see how well their message is accepted there.
 
As to your post, that is simply a fantasy world. War has been around since the beginning of history, and that will never change. You say war causes more harm than good. I beg to differ. If people would not have defied Germany in World War II and tried to be peaceful with them, the Nazis would have dominated Europe and completely wiped out the jews. The French learned this the hard way when they attempted to be peaceful. Being a peace activist is extremely easy in America. I would love to see peace activists go to Somalia, Afghanistan, or Iraq and see how well their message is accepted there.

That so deserves to be repeated
 
The world is what we make it

Thanks for your feedback.

I believe the world ie 'reality' is what WE make it!

Whereas each persons perception of reality is a subjective thing.

There is no argument, only observation, interpretation, and response..

I'm open and interested in hearing and discussing all points of view!

I'm not however interested in childish bickering! -Yes, i suppose it would be "painfully obvious" that i'm new to this sight! LOL!
 
Thanks for your feedback.

I believe the world ie 'reality' is what WE make it!

Whereas each persons perception of reality is a subjective thing.

There is no argument, only observation, interpretation, and response..

I'm open and interested in hearing and discussing all points of view!

I'm not however interested in childish bickering! -Yes, i suppose it would be "painfully obvious" that i'm new to this sight! LOL!

I believe the world ie 'reality' is what WE make it!

Sure, now all you need to do is convince that portion of the "we" who are creating the problems to stop- then everythings good. I'm all ready to beat my sword into a plow.

Since I'm here- start with the Taliban so I can leave.

Get them some cases of coke, build a fire and start singing "I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony..........."

I wish you great success- just remember some guy named Nick Berg- he wanted to help too

Whereas each persons perception of reality is a subjective thing.

My reality is that bullets and IED's hurt- thats not a perception

Innocent people murdered isnt a perception either- thats reality too
 
Thanks for your feedback.

I believe the world ie 'reality' is what WE make it!

Whereas each persons perception of reality is a subjective thing.

There is no argument, only observation, interpretation, and response..

I'm open and interested in hearing and discussing all points of view!

I'm not however interested in childish bickering! -Yes, i suppose it would be "painfully obvious" that i'm new to this sight! LOL!

Well we in America can be peaceful all we want. There are people out there who only want money, power, and to push their agenda (such as the terrorists/insurgents in Afghanistan and Iraq). Being peaceful will not stop another terrorists attack even if we think "The world is what we make it." It just doesn't work that way. My proof is the history of human beings on the planet Earth.
 
Well we in America can be peaceful all we want. There are people out there who only want money, power, and to push their agenda (such as the terrorists/insurgents in Afghanistan and Iraq). Being peaceful will not stop another terrorists attack even if we think "The world is what we make it." It just doesn't work that way. My proof is the history of human beings on the planet Earth.

No, No, No, No

These are just poor misunderstood people who are products of abuse and their environment. Also, somewhere in the past, its America's sole fault and responsibility they do what they do. They arent responsible for their actions and they didnt mean anything by it- we just arent sensitive enough to their needs.

Let us all join our hands and sing

Weeeeeeeeee are the wooooorld- weeeeeeeeeeee are the children
 
If by "creates" you mean "kills", then yes.

No. "Create" is right. For example Sean (Catholic) kills Sam (protestant). Then Sam's brother Kill Sean, and Sean's brother assassinate Sam's brother. And then it degenerate that point on, with both side killing each other, or one side massacring the other, and the other side reverting to more violence.

So when you use brute force to solve a problem, you either need to FULLY solve it (full genocide) or you actually do not, you just shift the violence toward up and down period where the next wave of violence is brewing, because the underlying problem are still here.

Thinking you can solve violence by bombing "the others" into stone age, but leaving survivor left, is quite a good demonstration that one never learn from history.

Note that I am no advocating genocide, only telling you why brute force do not ultimately solve anything, it only lengthen the time the problems stays until somebody come with a non violent solution, or kill the other party fully.
 
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No. "Create" is right. For example Sean (Catholic) kills Sam (protestant). Then Sam's brother Kill Sean, and Sean's brother assassinate Sam's brother. And then it degenerate that point on, with both side killing each other, or one side massacring the other, and the other side reverting to more violence.

So when you use brute force to solve a problem, you either need to FULLY solve it (full genocide) or you actually do not, you just shift the violence toward up and down period where the next wave of violence is brewing, because the underlying problem are still here.

Thinking you can solve violence by bombing "the others" into stone age, but leaving survivor left, is quite a good demonstration that one never learn from history.

Note that I am no advocating genocide, only telling you why brute force do not ultimately solve anything, it only lengthen the time the problems stays until somebody come with a non violent solution, or kill the other party fully.

It does not have to be full genocide. Talking about the Taliban, if we can take out their leadership and destroy a sizable amount of their force that will definitely solve the problem. This was almost accomplished at one point, but the US did not have enough of our forces in country to finish the job.
 
I'm not here to impress you, or anyone else. And I am not "debunking" anything. I am stating facts that are a matter of historical record. You know, I would think that you would want to make your statement, and further your cause and beliefs with material that is authentic, and has credibility. I'm sure there are plenty of videos out there that actually have honest veterans with legitimate gripes about the military, why don't you come up with a video like that?

The OP video is specifically aimed at dissuading young people from joining the army by challenging the powerful myths that are used to recruit them. I am interested to see how these myths are sustained and how, for example, a woman seeking to prevent other people's children from being duped into fighting useless, destructive wars is perceived as "pissing on her son's grave".

Also, it is not an ad-hom attack to bring attention to someones poor military record. If you did even the smallest amount of reading and research, you would see that PFC Hicks READILY ADMITS to the criminal charges he recieved in the Army, and he admits to having a long series of disciplinary actions taken against him. He also states in plain english when he's not in front of any cameras or crowds, that he hates the Army and those with whom he served. He has an axe to grind and is telling outrageous lies to get back at the Army and those who he hates.

So, since he has admitted all of these things, does that mean that he is engaging in an ad-hom attack against himself?

What is relevance of his record of miltary indiscipline to his testimony? What's wrong with hating the Army?

He has an axe to grind and is telling outrageous lies to get back at the Army and those who he hates.

Is that a fact or did you just make it up?

And, the US Army phrase "Army Strong" is neither a "lie" nor is it a "truth". It's simply a catch phrase used in print and television commercials for crying out loud.

"Army Strong" is a recruiting slogan that is used by the United States Army. The "Army Strong" video, juxtaposed in the OP video with some Winter Soldier testimony, is part of a recruiting campaign for the army.

Do you think the Army Strong video comes remotely close to accurately portraying what successfully recruited young people will experience in their new job?

Why does everything with you have to be "truther" versus "debunker"? Why is it that you absolutely will not believe ANYTHING from anyone who you percieve as a debunker?

Please provide the concrete evidence on which you have based these rhetorical questions/assertions. There is no truth to them.

Why do you refuse to look at the military records of the people in this video? The info/records are readily available from many sources. I am quickly learning that trying to talk to you, and to others like you, is an exercise in futility.

I don't know whether Hicks is a fantasist. You certainly haven't provided any proof that he is. Even if he is, I doubt that all the Winter Soldier witnesses are lying. Centuries of historical reports and historical testimony support their sentiments.


I can never be right because to you I am a debunker.

Wrong.

And, you believe that because you are a truther that you could never, ever be wrong about anything.

Wrong.




Mind reading, though popular with many JREF "debunkers", is not a scientifically reliable method.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Really?

What "brute force" ( and administered by who) "created" the Sandinistas, Taliban, Al Quieda and such?

Before I answer your question, by what definition are/were the Taliban and the Sandinistas "terrorists"?


If you get hit by a tank round, it doesn't matter much what it's made of.

If you don't get hit, depleted uranium isn't particularly dangerous. I wouldn't suggest that you grind it up and eat it - it's still a toxic heavy metal, though nowhere near as dangerous as cadmium or mercury. But if it's intact it's quite safe to handle.

How much of the hundreds of tons of the “not particularly dangerous", toxic, mutagenic, carcinogenic depleted uranium dumped on Iraq is "intact"?
 
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Thanks for your feedback.

I believe the world ie 'reality' is what WE make it!

Whereas each persons perception of reality is a subjective thing.

There is no argument, only observation, interpretation, and response..

I'm open and interested in hearing and discussing all points of view!

I'm not however interested in childish bickering! -Yes, i suppose it would be "painfully obvious" that i'm new to this sight! LOL!

You're not the "friend" that JihadJane had problemns registering previously are you?
 
You would have to know JihadJanes post history to know why I am immediately hostile towards her.

What is my "post history"?

It does not have to be full genocide. Talking about the Taliban, if we can take out their leadership and destroy a sizable amount of their force that will definitely solve the problem. This was almost accomplished at one point, but the US did not have enough of our forces in country to finish the job.

So just partial genocide will do the trick, then?

Welcome to the Empires' grave yard.
 
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Before I answer your question, by what definition are/were the Taliban and the Sandinistas "terrorists"?

Sure, the ONLY correct and accepted definition.

A terrorist is a person/group that is NOT part of a recognized government's military that engages in random acts of violence against NON DESCRIPT targets ( soft and hard types) in a random fashion for non military purposes that promote fear ( rather than legitimate tactical/military advantage) that initiate actions without responding to a direc threat or action normally promoting an agenda or belief that is not related to any recognized government officially sanctioned act.

Additionally, official entities can commit "terroristic" acts ( thus earning the title) when their actions are outside of recognized international laws and treaties especially in the case of unprovoked/unwarranted actions taken against civilian populaces with no legitimate military justification.

You need to remember sweetheart, I've been dealing with them in person and for real longer than there has been an internet or the general population even knew they existed.
 
Sure, the ONLY correct and accepted definition.

A terrorist is a person/group that is NOT part of a recognized government's military that engages in random acts of violence against NON DESCRIPT targets ( soft and hard types) in a random fashion for non military purposes that promote fear ( rather than legitimate tactical/military advantage) that initiate actions without responding to a direc threat or action normally promoting an agenda or belief that is not related to any recognized government officially sanctioned act.

Additionally, official entities can commit "terroristic" acts ( thus earning the title) when their actions are outside of recognized international laws and treaties especially in the case of unprovoked/unwarranted actions taken against civilian populaces with no legitimate military justification.

You need to remember sweetheart, I've been dealing with them in person and for real longer than there has been an internet or the general population even knew they existed.


I don't respond to patronizing idiocy.
 

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