Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[Moss]

Historical evidence is evidence plain and simple.

Historiography never was as objective as you make it out to be. If you don't believe me just look for the discussion of Tacitus' "Germania" and what the author might or might not have intended. Also he is almost 80 years too late to record anything but hearsay on the matter of Jesus.
Interesting is which historiographers and ethnographers FAIL to mention Jesus. Neither Philo of Alexandria nor Justus of Tiberias mention him.

 

[Belz...]

What if someone like Hitler thinks for themselves and determines it is OK to murder 6 million Jews. Without the existence of a God it can not be argued the Holocaust was evil, because without God and absolute morality Hitler has just as much right to his beliefs as anyone else.

No, that's not how morality works in society. But thanks for trying.

 

[Belz...]

Your statement is not logical. If I didn't believe in God, that doesn't mean I would be a mass murderer.

I thought you guys thought that morality only comes from God ?

 

[Belz...]

Without God people could still think things are wrong and thus not do antisocial behavior.

Ah, so again god is superfluous.

But they just wouldn't have any right to tell other people they are wrong to partake in antisocial behavior because without God and absolute morality everyone's moral beliefs are equally valid.

No, they're not.

And if they were, they still would be if God existed, because no one can truly understand God and his wishes (which are, of course, "mysterious") and therefore no one truly follows the right path. All morals are equally wrong, then.

 

[DOC]

There is no proof unicellular organisms such as bacteria came from non-living chemicals- none.

Besides being wrong, let's assume you are correct.
So? What's YOUR "theory" and how is that "proof" of anything?

If I was wrong you would present proof.

 

[Mojo]

What if someone like Hitler thinks for themselves and determines it is OK to murder 6 million Jews. Without the existence of a God it can not be argued the Holocaust was evil, because without God and absolute morality Hitler has just as much right to his beliefs as anyone else.

But what if mass murder or genocide were normal for the time, as slavery was in Christ's time?

And see, for example, Deuteronomy 7:1-2.

 

[Belz...]

Well Jesus Christ was not invisible

Neither was Odysseus.

1) the amazing and original words of Christ himself

Which by your own admission are made with respect to the morals of the time... so no great feat there.

2) the life changing power of the Gospel that gets people off drugs, turns peoples marriages around, and gives many people a reason to live and hope. I've seen countless testimonies on TV about this "real" life changing power.

Friendships with very real people have had the same power. What makes god different ?

3) the current "unproven" life from non-life scientific theory.

...compared to the non-existent life from non-life religious theory ?

4) the absurdity of the current mainline scientific theory that all the 100 billion galaxies in the known universe (including all of its matter and space) came from something smaller than an atom and this all happened by unintelligent random forces.

Why is that absurd ? This is a serious question. Why can't those galaxies come from A) a small region of space and B) unintelligent forces ? There is no apparent "plan" or order in all this, so why is it more credible to think an intelligent being did it ?

5) the fact that the cowardly apostles who wouldn't even attend Christ's crucifixion, or stay awake with him for one hour when he needed them, or who (like Peter) did things like denying Christ to a lone woman 3 times, suddenly became bold evangelists willing to lay down their lives (11 or 12 actually did) and travel all over the known world with great hardships to themselves for their belief.

...according to the bible, that is.

6)the unexplained empty tomb

...according to the bible.

7) the numerous fulfilled prophesies of the Old Testament.

Name one.

8) the unparalleled growth by peaceful means in the brutal Roman empire with no modern transportation or communications.

...kinda like Buddhism and Islam, right ?

 

[Belz...]

Isaiah 53 for one, which is supported by the historical person, Jesus.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142542

And here are some others, with several supported by the historical person Jesus.

http://www.reasons.org/fulfilled-prophecy-evidence-reliability-bible

So the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true ?

 

[DOC]

What if someone like Hitler thinks for themselves and determines it is OK to murder 6 million Jews. Without the existence of a God it can not be argued the Holocaust was evil, because without God and absolute morality Hitler has just as much right to his beliefs as anyone else.

No, that's not how morality works in society. But thanks for trying.

Please explain how morality works in society.

 

[paximperium]

If I was wrong you would present proof.

Okay, you are completely 100% correct. So?

 

[Cactus Wren]

Edited for rule 10.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

 

[paximperium]

Please explain how morality works in society.

Here is one of a multitude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract_theory

What's yours? Magic man dunnit?

 

[joobz]

Please explain how morality works in society.

the collective group of people agree upon a set of norms. Those moral norms are based on many different things. Historically, they have been absed upon magical origins which were considered to be beyond rebuke. However, society now uses rational debate and empathy to decide upon the morals with which society opperates.

It is this process that allows us to reject the stone age amoral actions considered good and acceptable in the bible (E.g., slavery, genocide, sexual inequality, anti-homosexuality,...)

 

[DOC]

So the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so and the Bible is true ?

No one is forcing you to believe the 33 Christian written sources and 10 non-Christian written sources for the truth of Christianity just like no one is forcing me to believe the 9 non-Christian written sources and 1 Christian written source for the life of the Roman emperor (during Christ's life) Tiberius Caesar.

 

[paximperium]

No one is forcing you to believe the 33 Christian written sources and 10 non-Christian written sources for the truth of Christianity just like no one is forcing me to believe the 9 non-Christian written sources and 1 Christian written source for the life of the Roman emperor (during Christ's life) Tiberius Caesar.

The "truth" that Christianity existed, sure.

So that's a continued no, when it comes to evidence of the magic super duper powers of Jesus?

 

[amb]

The N/T writers saw and thought what they were writing as the truth, but that doesn't mean it was not fantasy to an outsider. The originals were copied that many times that what we have today is nothing like the originals. Just as a person re-builds an old car. by the the time it's finished it may look the same as the original, but it's a completely other machine.

 

[DOC]

(3) the current "unproven" life from non-life scientific theory.

(3) a liar, since you've been shown that this is not only wrong, but you've been shown it repeatedly so that you can only repeat this claim if you are willfully misrepresenting history.

I'll leave the choice to you. What are you? Ignorant? Idiotic? Or a liar? I'm afraid that I don't see many other options here.

There is no proof unicellular organisms such as bacteria came from non-living chemicals- none.

Besides being wrong, let's assume you are correct.
So? What's YOUR "theory" and how is that "proof" of anything?

If I was wrong you would present proof.

Okay, you are completely 100% correct. So?

So, I've been falsely called a liar and wrong.

 

[DOC]

The "truth" that Christianity existed, sure.

So that's a continued no, when it comes to evidence of the magic super duper powers of Jesus?

So then you feel the Roman senator and historian Tacitus was wrong to report Christ suffered the supreme penalty under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius Caesar.

 

[paximperium]

So, I've been falsely called a liar and wrong.

Which is irrelevant to...what was your point again? Oh right. You have no point.

 

[paximperium]

So then you feel the Roman senator and historian Tacitus was wrong to report Christ suffered the supreme penalty under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius Caesar.

Sure. Some fella named Christus got his ass whacked. So?
Where is this evidence of super duper magic man Jesus again?