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Derren Brown is no different than Uri Gellar.

EGarrett

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E
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Feb 24, 2004
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Uri Gellar lied to people and told them that his tricks were the result of psychic powers. Derren Brown lies to people and tells them that his tricks are the result of NLP, automatic writing, auto-hypnosis and so on.

I've been saying this for years, especially given the blatant use of stooges in some of his acts and the sheer ludicrousness of what he leads people to believe makes it possible, but maybe Friday's blatant lowering of the public IQ disguised as an "explanation" might back this up enough to make it clear to those who didn't get it.

I would respect him if he simply stated that his tricks were illusions, a la David Copperfield, instead of leading people to believe that things like auto-writing actually work. The constant undercurrent of trying to get the public to believe that he's a genius is also very grating.
 
He hasn't claimed they are the result of NLP.
Everyone alway assumes he has said this (or they assume he is using it) but he states in his book Tricks of the Mind that he has never claimed to use NLP.
 
EGarrett said:
I would respect him if he simply stated that his tricks were illusions, a la David Copperfield, instead of leading people to believe that things like auto-writing actually work. The constant undercurrent of trying to get the public to believe that he's a genius is also very grating.
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He states at the beignning of most of his TV and stages shows, that it's all mixture of "magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship." In fact he said that at the beginning of last night's show, and also at the end he addmited that it all could have been just a trick. You want him to state that the tricks are illusions? Well he keeps calling himself a psychological illusionist.. obviously meaning that the psychological stuff is illusions.

Have you ever heard Geller claiming that he's also using magic, misdirection and showmanship during his effects? Have you ever heard Geller claiming to be a psychic illusionist? If not, then Derren IS different than Geller.

As for the NLP and hypnosis stuff.. he used to be a hypnotist in his early days and also took NLP courses. So some of his effects were inspired by that. It doesn't mean that he's actually using NLP and never claimed he did, maybe just as part of the showmanship. In fact he says in his books and some interviews that he doesn't believe in most of the NLP stuff and goes against it.
 
The reason I held Derren Brown in any higher regard than Chris Angel or Lance Burton is because I bought into the notion that he held skepticism and education as core values. That was naive. He's no different than those guys, except he marketed himself to people like me. It became glaringly obvious after last night's train wreck.
 
Nothing to see here. (But then you probably realized that by the name of the OP)
 
EGarrett said:
Derren Brown NLP Swish Pattern.
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First off, he never ever ever calls it NLP or a "Swish Pattern". Only the youtube account and the comments call it that. It's a confusion technique that mentalists, stage hypnotists and con men use that NLPers turned into something they think works in real life.

That is a performance. What he does in his shows is a performance. When "the lights are off and he's off stage", he is first to admit that what he does is trickery and not real.

If you pick up his book "Tricks of the Mind", you will see that he says that NLP has no credibility. In fact, in a recent commercial for his show, he says outright that he doesn't believe in psychic ability.

Uri claims everything he does on stage, he can do off stage. Take Uri off stage and ask him if what he's done is real, and he will say yes. Derren won't.

Derren admits he's a performer. Uri doesn't.

That's a big difference and a major one.

IMHO, if someone actually believes that what Derren does in a show is real, then those people aren't bothering to do look a little digging.
 
After Derren did that show where he pretended to be a psychic and the like to demonstrate cold reading, I'm really disappointed in him promoting so much nonsense on his recent programmes.

Tbh he does the same tricks as Uri Gellar to, and yes, he pretends that he does them by near-superhuman powers of mind-control and mind-reading, and Uri pretends he does his tricks by his near-superhuman psychic powers, and he's really starting to grate on me now

I knew he'd never admit he did a camera trick, but now everyone's realised it was a camera trick, and he said he'd reveal how he did it and the reveal was a load of psychic nonsense and not the truth... well I hope he changes his tune soon

He could have so many skeptical and rational fans but he seems to purposefully be trying to lose them now

he also seems to be trying to convince the public that 'woo' exists, a complete u-turn on his previous position
 
StanUpshaw said:
The reason I held Derren Brown in any higher regard than Chris Angel or Lance Burton is because I bought into the notion that he held skepticism and education as core values. That was naive. He's no different than those guys, except he marketed himself to people like me. It became glaringly obvious after last night's train wreck.
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this.

Anyone defending Derren Brown must have missed last night's show.
 
StanUpshaw said:
The reason I held Derren Brown in any higher regard than Chris Angel or Lance Burton is because I bought into the notion that he held skepticism and education as core values. That was naive. He's no different than those guys, except he marketed himself to people like me. It became glaringly obvious after last night's train wreck.
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If an artist is keen to try to strive for something new and original sometimes they hit a wrong note. Whether it is magic, comedy, music or whatever. He could play it safe but then I think a lot of people would stop watching. The attraction is WTF is he going to pull off next.
 
AgeGap said:
If an artist is keen to try to strive for something new and original sometimes they hit a wrong note. Whether it is magic, comedy, music or whatever. He could play it safe but then I think a lot of people would stop watching. The attraction is WTF is he going to pull off next.
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Agreed.

Also, Derren's job in a show is not education, it's entertainment. Same goes for Criss or Lance.

Derren has put out three books (I know of). "Tricks of the Mind" I consider a "Magic 101 for non-magicians" book. The other two, which the titles have escaped my memory for the moment, are both magic performance books. Books teaching other magicians some tricks he's created. Same is true for his instructional video.

None of his books or his one instructional video, are "woo" books at all. They are all magic trick performance books. To my knowledge, Uri's books are all "woo" books. Another major difference.
 
I wonder what will happen after thousands of people try to replicate this to win the next lottery?
 
For me, Derren Brown has been more or less consistent for the past 4-5 years (which equals my span of watching, reading his work). I do believe he has, on occasion, put misdirection even in some explainations of how he does his tricks, but who cares? It's not as if he doesn't make it obvious it's all about tricks.
 
AgeGap said:
If an artist is keen to try to strive for something new and original sometimes they hit a wrong note. Whether it is magic, comedy, music or whatever. He could play it safe but then I think a lot of people would stop watching. The attraction is WTF is he going to pull off next.
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If that is how people see him, then that's fine. Personally, I don't give a spit about magic. It brings me no joy, I'm just not that kind of guy. However, I considered myself a Derren Brown fan from the first time I saw him, which was "Messiah." I saw a guy fighting superstition, and he happened to use magic as his weapon.

That's why I went into the program last night expecting that he'd turn it into something worthwhile. I figured he'd come clean with the video techniques and use the opportunity to educate. The way it turned out, of course, showed me that I had been fooled. Magic/Entertainment/Showmanship/Whatever you want to call it...that is what this guy cares about.

I have now stopped thinking of him as a skeptic whose medium dictates that he cross the "woo" line here and there, and instead think of him as a magician who used skepticism as a marketing ploy.
 
JFrankA said:
Agreed.

Also, Derren's job in a show is not education, it's entertainment. Same goes for Criss or Lance.

Derren has put out three books (I know of). "Tricks of the Mind" I consider a "Magic 101 for non-magicians" book. The other two, which the titles have escaped my memory for the moment, are both magic performance books. Books teaching other magicians some tricks he's created. Same is true for his instructional video.

None of his books or his one instructional video, are "woo" books at all. They are all magic trick performance books. To my knowledge, Uri's books are all "woo" books. Another major difference.
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I have just finished Pure Effect. Don't know the other.
ETA Absolute Magic.
 
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StanUpshaw said:
If that is how people see him, then that's fine. Personally, I don't give a spit about magic. It brings me no joy, I'm just not that kind of guy. However, I considered myself a Derren Brown fan from the first time I saw him, which was "Messiah." I saw a guy fighting superstition, and he happened to use magic as his weapon.

That's why I went into the program last night expecting that he'd turn it into something worthwhile. I figured he'd come clean with the video techniques and use the opportunity to educate. The way it turned out, of course, showed me that I had been fooled. Magic/Entertainment/Showmanship/Whatever you want to call it...that is what this guy cares about.

I have now stopped thinking of him as a skeptic whose medium dictates that he cross the "woo" line here and there, and instead think of him as a magician who used skepticism as a marketing ploy.
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He's a magician, he's always been. It's not his mission to debunk all the woo, that wasn't what he's ever tried to do. Randi and Penn & Teller are magicians who also want to debunk woo.

Also, I think saying that he uses skepticism as a marketing ploy is unfair. He may use it as a misdirection, that I'll agree with. But a marketing ploy?

I mean no offense to you with this next statement but maybe he didn't disappoint you, maybe you expected him to be something he's not.
 
AgeGap said:
I have just finished Pure Effect. Don't know the other.
ETA Absolute Magic.
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That's right. I almost typed "Absolute Effect" :)

By the way, the instructional video is called "The Devil's Picturebook".
 
Loads of people (less rational than you or I) finished watching that programme and thought positive thinking and automatic writing will magically tap into the ether to predict lottery results.

Just like people finish watching John Edwards and it convinces them you can talk to the dead.
 
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