Merged National Geographic Special - "9/11 Science and Conspiracy" Debunks Thermite Myth

[Hokulele]

The link you posted is talking about how why the towers did not topple over after being hit by planes, while I was talking what would have happen if a powerful enough bomb was set off at the base. Are you inncapable of compherending the difference?

No, the two portions I quoted are discussing why they wouldn't topple if support is lost at any point on the structure, including the base (hint, calculate the forces that would be involved in the pivoting required for the Towers to fall over).

 

[Brainache]

It really is like being stuck in some godawful time loop with these people isn't it?

Toppling buildings, molten steel, thermite, etc... 2006 here we come again...and again.... and again...

ETA:
OOOOOH whether it's MIHOP,
or whether it's LIHOP,
We need to know the Truth
and make this war stop....

 

[Hokulele]

2006 - Peak Stupid.

 

[kylebisme]

You don't get it do you?
R.Mackey tried to explain it and he is much better than me at this stuff, but here I go: The towers are made of a steel framework of millions of separate beams all bolted together. If you remove one side of it at the bottom, it won't topple like a tree. The bolts will shear off because the load is no longer vertical and the whole thing will collapse straight down. More like a house of cards than a tree. That is of course an over-simplification, but I'm no engineer.

If you blast out enough bottom, it might come down straight enough to keep it standing, or it might set it off tilt enough to where it will continue to topple over. We are talking about wildly tall buildings here, it doesn't take much lean before the center of mass is outside the footprint.

I'm sorry I accused you of making stuff up, you appear to just be parroting some stupid lies that you read on a loony website.

It would be wonderful if we could have this conversation without the snide remarks.

As for the molten steel, here is one mention:

"Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense," reports Alison Geyh, PhD. "In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel."

 

[Sam.I.Am]

Please show me where the towers were as strong as a tree.

 

[Brainache]

If you blast out enough bottom, it might come down straight enough to keep it standing, or it might set it off tilt enough to where it will continue to topple over. We are talking about wildly tall buildings here, it doesn't take much lean before the center of mass is outside the footprint.

What part of "the towers aren't solid structures like a tree" don't you understand?

It would be wonderful if we could have this conversation without the snide remarks.

It would be wonderful if we could have this conversation without the parroting of stupid lies from loony websites.

As for the molten steel, here is one mention:

Does that say that there were huge pools of molten steel?

Are pools of molten steel something you'd expect from a demolition?

Could the fact that fires were burning in the rubble pile for weeks give you a hint as to how hot it might have gotten in there?

How much thermite would you need for it to burn for weeks?

 

[kylebisme]

And yet, these noble public servants who so kindly concealed explosives in crowded office space, see no need to come forward and stop all the lies that the Government and Engineers in Universities all over the world have been telling about what happened that day. Every single one of them is happy to go along with the big lie, right?

Having planted those explosives for the purpose they served, and a purpose they were long sarong not to talk about, why would they want to come forward? Even if one did, he wouldn't likely be able to prove it, and without proof would be almost surely branded a crackpot and ostracized.

As for big lies, they aren't just created by people wanting to deceive, but also people wanting to believe.

 

[kylebisme]

Please show me where the towers were as strong as a tree.

How about a Jenga tower which isn't nearly as strong.

 

[Brainache]

Having planted those explosives for the purpose they served, and a purpose they were long sarong not to talk about, why would they want to come forward? Even if one did, he wouldn't likely be able to prove it, and without proof would be almost surely branded a crackpot and ostracized.

That's right.... people never stand up for things if someone might call them names.( Redtail where are you?) Why would they not want to come forward if they had performed a noble public service?

Just face it, this whole argument is totally retarded.

As for big lies, they aren't just created by people wanting to deceive, but also people wanting to believe.

Ah, so you admit to creating this big lie of yours. Just why you want to believe this lie is another question.

 

[Arus808]

Having planted those explosives for the purpose they served, and a purpose they were long sarong not to talk about, why would they want to come forward? Even if one did, he wouldn't likely be able to prove it, and without proof would be almost surely branded a crackpot and ostracized.

As for big lies, they aren't just created by people wanting to deceive, but also people wanting to believe.

again 2 people brought down Nixon in the biggest scandal of a presidency, and there was no such thing as the internet back then.

in 8 years, for a conpisrayc that would have thousands of participants, not one whistleblower.

YOU live in fantasy land.

 

[kylebisme]

Does that say that there were huge pools of molten steel?

No, you said "huge pools" for some off the wall reason or another.

Are pools of molten steel something you'd expect from a demolition?

A normal demolition, no. One designed for very different reasons using exotic materials which are have yet to become public knowledge, sure.

Could the fact that fires were burning in the rubble pile for weeks give you a hint as to how hot it might have gotten in there?

They most certainly do, but they don't explain how it got that hot in there.

How much thermite would you need for it to burn for weeks?

It's a matter of how much heat you need, which can be the result of enough thermite. Not that I claimed to know if thermite was used or something else.

However, on the thermite thing, I noted the absurdity of the NG programs attempt to "prove" it couldn't melt steel earlier. Here is an of what they could have done if they weren't clueless.

 

[Hokulele]

How about a Jenga tower which isn't nearly as strong.

How about you do a force diagram on the actual towers rather than relying on analogies that do not model the real world accurately.

 

[Brainache]

...
A normal demolition, no. One designed for very different reasons using exotic materials which are have yet to become public knowledge, sure.

And you know about them,... how? Some dude on the net told you? You are making it up? You dreamed it? You are really a sooper sekret spy?

They most certainly do, but they don't explain how it got that hot in there.

Regular physics can explain how kilns work and how they can form in the circumstances present at the WTC after 9/11. No need for exotic materials publicly known or otherwise. All you need to do is read up about this stuff. Try to find a non-loony source though, that might help.

 

[kylebisme]

That's right.... people never stand up for things if someone might call them names.( Redtail where are you?) Why would they not want to come forward if they had performed a noble public service?

Just face it, this whole argument is totally retarded.

You aren't addressing my whole argument, simply nitpicking at one part while ignoring the parts which address your dispute.

Again, why would they want to scare people away from other buildings which they might suspect to be rigged? Keeping such information secret is part of that noble public service. And again, without proof, they couldn't rightly hope to be believed even regardless of what they say.

Ah, so you admit to creating this big lie of yours. Just why you want to believe this lie is another question.

No, I was addressing your absurd implication that I believe "the Government and Engineers in Universities" are all intentionally trying to deceive the rest of us. The far more reasonable explanation that such individuals can just as easily be misguided by a desire to believe as anyone else, particular in the case of a subject which has an such an overwhelming emotional effect on people.

 

[Hokulele]

You aren't addressing my whole argument, simply nitpicking at one part while ignoring the parts which address your dispute.

Considering that you still haven't established the need for this (toppling), there is no reason to pay attention to the rest of it anyway.

 

[Brainache]

You aren't addressing my whole argument, simply nitpicking at one part while ignoring the parts which address your dispute.

Again, why would they want to scare people away from other buildings which they might suspect to be rigged? Keeping such information secret is part of that noble public service. And again, without proof, they couldn't rightly hope to be believed even regardless of what they say.

Possibly because those other buildings were wired up with freaking explosives? Anyone with a brain knows that wiring up buildings to explode in case of an emergency would be a ridiculously dangerous thing to do. You, however, seem to think it is perfectly reasonable...

No, I was addressing your absurd implication that I believe "the Government and Engineers in Universities" are all intentionally trying to deceive the rest of us. The far more reasonable explanation that such individuals can just as easily be misguided by a desire to believe as anyone else, particular in the case of a subject which has an such an overwhelming emotional effect on people.

So all those Engineers in China or Iran or Moscow , wherever, have such an overwhelming desire to side with the Bush Government that they forget everything they learned in their careers as professional Engineers, but you are so clear thinking and expert that you can see right through it all?

Seriously Kyle, you should sit down somewhere quiet and have a long hard look at yourself. You are not as great as you think you are dude. Go back to school and try to learn just a little about some of the subjects of which you are so obviously ignorant.

I wish you luck waking up to yourself.

 

[kylebisme]

again 2 people brought down Nixon in the biggest scandal of a presidency, and there was no such thing as the internet back then.

But I am not claiming there is any such scandal to bring down, only suggesting there might be a secret public safety policy which is best kept secret.

in 8 years, for a conpisrayc that would have thousands of participants, not one whistleblower.

YOU live in fantasy land.

You came up with the thousands of participants in a conspiracy nonsense somewhere else, and have no place blaming me for that.

 

[kylebisme]

How about you do a force diagram on the actual towers rather than relying on analogies that do not model the real world accurately.

You don't think that video showed real world physics?

And you know about them,... how? Some dude on the net told you? You are making it up? You dreamed it? You are really a sooper sekret spy?

Rather, I'm just not so narrow minded as to think that whatever I don't know of doesn't exist, unlike you were doing previously with your "no molten steel" argument.

Regular physics can explain how kilns work and how they can form in the circumstances present at the WTC after 9/11. No need for exotic materials publicly known or otherwise. All you need to do is read up about this stuff. Try to find a non-loony source though, that might help.

I know how kilns work, they require a fuel source.

 

[Hokulele]

You don't think that video showed real world physics?

I don't think it showed a system comparable to a skyscraper.

 

[TruthersLie]

I appreciate the friendly welcome, as for the question; put simply, the buildings could have been rigged to blow for the sake of public safety. Imagine how much much death and destruction would have resulted had the top of the building slid off the side. Then imagine how even more horrific the results would have been had the towers been toppled over after being bombed at their bases.

I don't need to imagine it. All of the buildings nearby were evacuated.

If the buildings "could have been rigged to blow for the sake of public safety" it should be very easy to find documents to prove that.

I mean besides for the overwhelming facts that
1. why would they rig any building to explode for "public safety?"
2. you do realize that explosives hvae a very limited shelf life right? After 3 years or so most explosives start losing their power very rapidly
3. to refit a building like the towers with explosives would cost BILLIONS and would be very noticable.
4. Of course when it gets out that you are rigging the buildings to "blow for the sake of public safety" I'm sure you would have people lining up to put their offices in those kinds of buildings. </sarcasm>

Those were undeniable possibilities,

I fully deny those possibiltiies. Provide a citation to support your wild assertions.

particularly after the 1993 bombing. In the worst case scenario of such an attack, being able to demolish the towers into their footprint,

How does two buildings with a one acre footprint each (for a two acre footprint) collapse and have debris over 16 acres? That is NOT inside the footprint. How does a building that has debris over 600 feet away from it collapse into its own footprint? Please explain.

or at least as they fell, would prevent a far worse situation than what otherwise would have resulted. Granted, telling the public at large that such high value targets are rigged to blow would result in many being irrationally wary of ever going near them. So those involved would have to be sworn to secrecy, and at least most with little or nothing to compel them to come forward with such information today.

Sworn to secrecy... this would take thousands of people working for YEARS... yet not one has ever spoken to a priest, a psychologist, or gotten drunk in a bar and bragged. Amazing operational security there... The manhattan project had leaks, yet not one person ever has come forward to support these wild claims.