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VFF Preliminary Kidney Detection Test

VisionFromFeeling

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Attention Skeptics Nationwide,

I am a paranormal claimant investigating my claim of medical perceptions. When I look at people I perceive images in my mind that depict the inside of their bodies, see more on www.visionfromfeeling.com. I have submitted a claim and suggested test protocol to the Independent Investigations Group IIG West and they are arranging a test for me to take place in Hollywood California hopefully by the end of the year. The test will involve detecting which of persons is missing a kidney and I will only get to see the persons from behind, neck down. The IIG have suggested that I have a preliminary test before having the official test with them so that I am better prepared for the outcome of their test. That is why I am asking all of you if any of you would be willing to set up a preliminary test of my claim with me.

All that is required is that you find one or several persons who have had a kidney removed. If you know such a person, who would be able to sit for the test, and can then find nine other persons who have both kidneys for the test. I will travel to take the test near you and I will pay for the location and arrange the screens for the test. If you know a person who has had a kidney removed, or are willing to make the effort to finding such persons for the test, let's discuss it here. Being the claimant I am unable to arrange for the persons myself. Also, let's discuss the test protocol for the kidney detection test on this thread. All other topics are referred to the General VFF Thread. Thank you,
Paranormal Claimant
VisionFromFeeling

The preliminary test protocol so far:
One person who has had a kidney removed is sitting among nine other persons who have both kidneys. Their order of sequence is determined randomly. The back rest of their chairs is facing to the left so that their backs can be seen. A fabric curtain is attached from the ceiling and comes down to cover head and necks of the persons. A number is placed on the floor by each of the chairs with numbers from 1 to 10 from left to right. The persons are wearing their everyday clothes and their backs do not need to be bare. Once the ten persons are settled I will take a seat behind their row a few feet behind them. I have four hours to look at them. At any time during this time, I may choose to submit a sheet where I can select up to five numbers. Once I submit that sheet I leave the room. The persons whose numbers are on the sheet leave the row of ten. Their empty chairs are removed and the row is brought together keeping the same order of sequence. I then return to the room and continue looking at the remaining persons. Before the time is up I submit my answer on an answer sheet with the number of the person I think is the one who has had a kidney removed or I state that I am unable to detect which of the persons is missing a kidney. I submit the answer sheet to one of the Skeptics and the accuracy is then determined. The person should bring medical documentation that verifies that they have had a kidney removed, otherwise we can check for the scar at the back.

Let's discuss the protocol for the preliminary test, and most of all I hope to hear from some of you who might know someone who has had a kidney removed so that I can arrange a preliminary test with you.
 
I would have thought the volunteers would come from unknown sources and have nothing to do with one of the places (JREF) that youre making the claims?
 
Four hours seems a bit long. Are the volunteers going to be given bathroom breaks or any way to amuse themselves?
 
Yes, four hours is quite long to sit. For people who have had a kidney removed, would sitting for four hours lead to discomfort in a way not applicable to those who have not had the operation?

ETA: Why do you need the preliminary step of removing five "sitters"?
 
VisionFromFeeling said:
Attention Skeptics Nationwide,

The person should bring medical documentation that verifies that they have had a kidney removed, otherwise we can check for the scar at the back.

.
Click to expand...


Scar on the back? My wife wants to play! When she donated a kidney a couple years back it was removed from the front...
 
shandyjan said:
I would have thought the volunteers would come from unknown sources and have nothing to do with one of the places (JREF) that youre making the claims?
Click to expand...
For the preliminary test it should be ok if Skeptics who are not affiliated to the JREF know the volunteers and arrange for them to the test.

Giggywig said:
Four hours seems a bit long. Are the volunteers going to be given bathroom breaks or any way to amuse themselves?
Click to expand...
SezMe said:
Yes, four hours is quite long to sit. For people who have had a kidney removed, would sitting for four hours lead to discomfort in a way not applicable to those who have not had the operation?

ETA: Why do you need the preliminary step of removing five "sitters"?
Click to expand...
I was hoping for second opinions on the four hours and I agree. How do we all feel about two hours with five volunteers, and then another two hours with the other five? That would also eliminate the use of the sheet that removes up to five volunteers from the ten. The purpose of that sheet was for me to select out the ones that I am most certain have both kidneys, so to narrow down on the five that I think are most likely to be missing a kidney. Although awkward from a test perspective, it would have been more convenient for me because I keep going back and forth looking at the volunteers. I would prefer to see all ten at the same time, but the volunteers need to also be taken into account.

I would imagine that the test can be paused if a volunteer (or claimant) absolutely has to take a break.

Also you are right, we need to take into account that sitting for four hours might reveal symptoms of their kidney situation.
 
JPL said:
Scar on the back? My wife wants to play! When she donated a kidney a couple years back it was removed from the front...
Click to expand...
Thank you for that, we now know that checking for the scar is more involved than I had first thought.

Would your wife be willing to take part in the preliminary test with me? Once we have a person who has had a kidney removed, and if you are able to find nine other women who have both kidneys and who can also take part in the test, we can design the preliminary test and make arrangements. Then I would refer you to your local Skeptical society so that we can involve more Skeptics in the test.
 
An old dog trying an old trick here:rolleyes:

JPL pointed out that his wife's kidney was removed from the front and NOT the back which immediately makes the whole location of the scar business more "involved" for Visionfromfeeling.
Here is the first step in nothing happening until it happens eventually.

Just for your information Anita, ALL kidney removal is done from the front/side so there really is nothing complicated about where the location of the scar is. You were wrong in your assumptions.

Second step to nothing happening until it happens eventually, is how JPL was not so subtly requested to find nine other women who do not have a missing kidney so that Anita can then discuss the protocol which is truly putting the cart before the horse. JPL will also be referred to the local skeptics society by Anita, gee JPL I hope you dont live in a small village of 500 people who mind you asking the big questions!

Stay tuned for thousands upon thousands of words as the members here come up with a protocol and possibly nine women with no missing kidneys for Anita.

Do not change posters' names to insult them.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LibraryLady
 
Last edited by a moderator:
VFF you are asking for 24 minutes to look at each person. 24? Is your vision like the old Polaroid cameras such that the picture of the person's innards slowly develops with time?
 
I deduced that but I was trying to make a point with Farencue that he/she should use nics rather than Real Life names. This is a pet peeve of mine that you see often in the 911 subforum and bigfoot forum. Sometimes it's obvious who the reference is (as in this case) but often it is not. Maybe I should have been more direct.






Can you help me down off this soapbox now?
 
VisionFromFeeling said:
Attention Skeptics Nationwide,

I am a paranormal claimant investigating my claim of medical perceptions. When I look at people I perceive images in my mind that depict the inside of their bodies, see more on www.visionfromfeeling.com. I have submitted a claim and suggested test protocol to the Independent Investigations Group IIG West and they are arranging a test for me to take place in Hollywood California hopefully by the end of the year. The test will involve detecting which of persons is missing a kidney and I will only get to see the persons from behind, neck down. The IIG have suggested that I have a preliminary test before having the official test with them so that I am better prepared for the outcome of their test. That is why I am asking all of you if any of you would be willing to set up a preliminary test of my claim with me.

All that is required is that you find one or several persons who have had a kidney removed. If you know such a person, who would be able to sit for the test, and can then find nine other persons who have both kidneys for the test. I will travel to take the test near you and I will pay for the location and arrange the screens for the test. If you know a person who has had a kidney removed, or are willing to make the effort to finding such persons for the test, let's discuss it here. Being the claimant I am unable to arrange for the persons myself. Also, let's discuss the test protocol for the kidney detection test on this thread. All other topics are referred to the General VFF Thread. Thank you,
Paranormal Claimant
VisionFromFeeling

The preliminary test protocol so far:
One person who has had a kidney removed is sitting among nine other persons who have both kidneys. Their order of sequence is determined randomly. The back rest of their chairs is facing to the left so that their backs can be seen. A fabric curtain is attached from the ceiling and comes down to cover head and necks of the persons. A number is placed on the floor by each of the chairs with numbers from 1 to 10 from left to right. The persons are wearing their everyday clothes and their backs do not need to be bare. Once the ten persons are settled I will take a seat behind their row a few feet behind them. I have four hours to look at them. At any time during this time, I may choose to submit a sheet where I can select up to five numbers. Once I submit that sheet I leave the room. The persons whose numbers are on the sheet leave the row of ten. Their empty chairs are removed and the row is brought together keeping the same order of sequence. I then return to the room and continue looking at the remaining persons. Before the time is up I submit my answer on an answer sheet with the number of the person I think is the one who has had a kidney removed or I state that I am unable to detect which of the persons is missing a kidney. I submit the answer sheet to one of the Skeptics and the accuracy is then determined. The person should bring medical documentation that verifies that they have had a kidney removed, otherwise we can check for the scar at the back.

Let's discuss the protocol for the preliminary test, and most of all I hope to hear from some of you who might know someone who has had a kidney removed so that I can arrange a preliminary test with you.
Click to expand...


There are 303,824,640 people in the US.

According to the US Congressional Kidney Caucus, one person in 750 is born with a single kidney.

The above figures indicate that there are approximately 405 000 people in the US with one kidney and no scar.

It's reasonable to assume that not all of these people will be aware of their condition.

There is a reasonably high probability that one of these people will end up in your pool of examinees.

How do you intend to screen these people out of the test?
 
JPL said:
Scar on the back? My wife wants to play! When she donated a kidney a couple years back it was removed from the front...
Click to expand...


Oh dear. Add people with surgically removed kidneys and no back scar to the 405 000 I mentioned in my previous post.

According to your research, VFF, what proportion of people who have had a kidney removed have a back scar?

How was this research conducted?
 
Akhenaten said:
There are 303,824,640 people in the US.

According to the US Congressional Kidney Caucus, one person in 750 is born with a single kidney.

The above figures indicate that there are approximately 405 000 people in the US with one kidney and no scar.

It's reasonable to assume that not all of these people will be aware of their condition.

There is a reasonably high probability that one of these people will end up in your pool of examinees.

How do you intend to screen these people out of the test?
Click to expand...

Hey, good call...
 
JPL said:
Scar on the back? My wife wants to play! When she donated a kidney a couple years back it was removed from the front...
Click to expand...


VisionFromFeeling said:
Thank you for that, we now know that checking for the scar is more involved than I had first thought.

<snip>
Click to expand...


You're claiming to be ready for a test and you don't even know how to detect a missing kidney using the methods available to people with normal vision.

Can you see a problem with this?
 
As a general comment, VFF, you have no medical background, as further evidenced by the above approach to "kidney detection" and yet you appear determined to continue in your attempts to diagnose people.


It won't end well.
 
VisionFromFeeling.com

We have a solution for the problem of how do we confirm that a person does indeed have both kidneys. This solution came unintentionally from JREF Forum member Akhenaten who said that it should be as simple as checking for the scar after the test. Those that have had a kidney removed would have a scar, and those that have not had a kidney removed would not have that scar. As for people who were born without a kidney, they would be missing a kidney but not have a scar, and we still need to consider this possible complication. Those that have a scar indicating that a kidney would have been removed should also provide documentation to verify that they have had a kidney removed and that the scar could not be due to other reasons.
Click to expand...


You should be more careful. You seem to rely on some very dodgy sources.
 
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