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Message from a Truther

Well it was on the topix forum. I'm sure you have extensive records of the posts involved. You could esily put up those posts and we can have another look. My recollection is that we were in broad agreement that the plane did not slow down when penetrating the massive steel barrier of WTC2.
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This really tears it, Bill.

You're a fool. A clown. And now, a liar.

You cannot understand the simplest of concepts. I worked my ass off & got an Ivy League engineering degree.
You work in food service. I worked my ass off & invented products that have saved about a quarter million lives.
You produce one brain dead stupid theory after another. I put in some thought & effort and produce engineering explanations.
You don't care about these topics in the slightest. I do.

You have consistently lied about one topic after another after another since I've known you.

That's your own business. That's YOUR reputation.

But now, you choose to lie about my statements & opinions. That is MY reputation that you trammel with the ludicrous suggestion that I'd agree with any of your inane opinions.

And then have the unmitigated gall to tell me that I should go research your nonexistent lie, so that I can clean up your mess.

Your behavior has crossed the line from buffoonish to despicable.

Your statement is a lie. I presented to the readers at Topix NIST's CLEAR presentation of their analyses in NCSTAR1-2, which show the plane losing about 70% of its velocity while penetrating the outer wall.

Your understanding is nonexistent. Your memory is convenient to the moment. You possess zero concept of truth or honor.

Do NOT suggest, ever again, that you possess the ability to speak for me on any topic.

tk
 
bill seems to have slipped well out of "having a bit of a giggle" into plain malice, so it begins to look like I could have been wrong all along.
And note the weasel words ... "my recollection" ...
 
bill seems to have slipped well out of "having a bit of a giggle" into plain malice, so it begins to look like I could have been wrong all along.
And note the weasel words ... "my recollection" ...
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He's a buffoon, whose only talent is to be insufferably annoying as often as possible. Your basic garden variety troll.

He runs several puppets on that other forum, Topix. Outright, blatant lies and antisemitism is a cornerstone of those. Up until now, he kept those traits away from "bill smith". I guess he got bored, being slapped around so badly.

The amusing part of all of this is that, while I quoted NIST's analysis, bill's stated opinion on this issue was that the plane would HAVE to have bounced off the towers, because aluminum could never have passed thru steel.

So, therefore the plane was either: a hologram, AND CGI'd into the broadcast video with NWO agents in the crowd all pointing at the sky and saying "Look, a plane is about to hit the towers" and thereby impressing a false memory into all the credulous people around them AND there was a "molecular disintegrator beam" built into the front of the plane AND military plane AND Remotely Piloted Vehicle.

I use the word "AND" intentionally. Because he simply swapped from one theory to the next to the next. I'm sure I've forgotten some.

And these are the opinionS with which, he claimed above, I agreed with him. ???? Go figure.

Anyway, bill has pulled his last prank as far as I'm concerned. He's off to ignore, and it's like the sun just came out. Or someone opened a window...

You've got a stronger stomach than I do, Glenn.

:rolleyes:

Tom
 
bill et all seem to think that debating on this forum is like some Star Trek forum where one group is saying Star Trek Next Generation is better than Star Trek Voyager and another group disagrees.

The professionals on this forum basically represent the rank-and-file of engineers world-wide, and is a good indication of how the truther's theories would be--and are--received in the real world.

Truthers are an odd bunch
 
bill seems to have slipped well out of "having a bit of a giggle" into plain malice, so it begins to look like I could have been wrong all along.
And note the weasel words ... "my recollection" ...

So where's he malice then Glenn ?
 
The rest of the evidence put forward by 1000s of whistleblowers & experts supports the physical evidence Nanothermite found in the WTC dust. I know its just paint right? The editor of the Open Physics journal resigned Ive heard it all. But what you must remember is that this paper has been OPEN PEER REVIEWED.

What an idiotic idea to believe as Jones lies about thermite being used to destroy the WTC. How dumb do you have to be to fall for a big lie made up 4 years after 911 because Jones does not like the Iraq war which has nothing to do with 911.

Nano-thermite is a big scam; who is dumb enough to fall for it? Jones supports the Hoffman delusion of thermite chips in the ceiling tiles with remote detonators. That is insanity.
 
What an idiotic idea to believe as Jones lies about thermite being used to destroy the WTC. How dumb do you have to be to fall for a big lie made up 4 years after 911 because Jones does not like the Iraq war which has nothing to do with 911.

Nano-thermite is a big scam; who is dumb enough to fall for it? Jones supports the Hoffman delusion of thermite chips in the ceiling tiles with remote detonators. That is insanity.

I never heard about that. Do you have a link ? I have a somewhat similar theory myself.
 
Exactly what I say. The plane passed through that massive steel barrier without any of the flimsy panels coming loose and fluttering down on the outside and it lost zero velocity due to the impact. In fact in th case of WTC1 the 155-foot long aircraft went hrough the perimeter columns and hit the core about 60 feet in. So about 100 feet of he fuselage should have been sticking out and momentarily showing that tremendous final shattering blow against he core columns. But guess what ?....hey, it did not allow a few measly core columns to slow it down either and went in without any hesitation or jolt at all.

Licensed-to-ill.jpg
 
Nice. You could rotate that 90 degrees CCW and call it "Flight 93"
 
Bill is different from Christophera, Chris7, ultima1, Heiwa and the rest. They, deluded though they are, actually have some belief in what they say.

Bill does it for fun, but it seems to me that it has reached the level of an obsession with him.

You won't get a rational response from Heiwa because he's incapable of that.

You will get the most irrational response possible from Bill, because that is his objective.

bill is the truther version of 'Mad Libs'?
 
Well personally I would go for the intrinsic strengh of the core by libarally bracing it. But if people are happy to believe in your core braced only by floor trusses that is up to them. We will not know for sure until NIST allows examination of the blueprints of WTC2.[/QUOTE]


Um, I don't think NIST is in any position to release such documents as the blueprints. Those belong to whomever owned them.

Just like the tapes from the Hotels near the Pentagon, or any other evidence that they used. Its not theirs to give out.

Der.


PS, I am sure this has been pointed out to bill, but I wanted to reiterate it.

Oh, and that stupid plane again??? Come on, we discussed this a long time ago. Nost sure where, but I know that I poked more holes in this theory of yours than swiss cheese.
 
Here is the really curious thing about the south tower:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SSS0DDqfm0

That is 52 minutes after the oscillation caused by the plane impact died out. The plane shifted that area of the building 14 inches sideways. But when that break occurred it shifted about TWENTY FEET sideways and had to break lots of columns. So how did gravity and fire make that much mass move sideways.

Oh that's right! We don't have information on the tons of steel and concrete on every level so we don't know how much mass moved sideways 20 feet in a few seconds because of gravity and fire.

psik
 
But when that break occurred it shifted about TWENTY FEET sideways and had to break lots of columns. So how did gravity and fire make that much mass move sideways.

It didn't. The upper block rotated about its centre of mass. Whatever moved to one side below that centre was balanced by an amount of equal moment of inertia moving the opposite direction above that centre. Why can't truthers understand elementary geometry?

Dave
 
Well personally I would go for the intrinsic strengh of the core by libarally bracing it. But if people are happy to believe in your core braced only by floor trusses that is up to them. We will not know for sure until NIST allows examination of the blueprints of WTC2.[/QUOTE]


Um, I don't think NIST is in any position to release such documents as the blueprints. Those belong to whomever owned them.

Just like the tapes from the Hotels near the Pentagon, or any other evidence that they used. Its not theirs to give out.

Der.


PS, I am sure this has been pointed out to bill, but I wanted to reiterate it.

Oh, and that stupid plane again??? Come on, we discussed this a long time ago. Nost sure where, but I know that I poked more holes in this theory of yours than swiss cheese.

They wouldn't know what to do if they had their hands on the construction documents. Truthers don't understand the basic principles of how and why buildings stand up.
 
They wouldn't know what to do if they had their hands on the construction documents. Truthers don't understand the basic principles of how and why buildings stand up.
Sure they do. Remember that net force equals zero so truthers think that buildings can't collapse and that they stand for all eternity.
 
Well personally I would go for the intrinsic strengh of the core by libarally bracing it. But if people are happy to believe in your core braced only by floor trusses that is up to them. We will not know for sure until NIST allows examination of the blueprints of WTC2.

THAT is not what i said bill. Let's take it slow and simple then.

The columns that make up the core were braced to each other. That is to say they were braced, laterally, to the columns adjacent to each. There was no diagonal bracing either horizontally or between floors.

The core SYSTEM of columns/beams, was in turn braced laterally to the perimeter system. the perimeter columns were braced as well to each other(obviously in one dimension only).

The core SYSTEM of columns and beams however still represents a structure that could NOT support itself against buckling(look up Euler in google) without that bracing to the perimeter system.

As I stated already, during construction they built the core ahead of the flooring/perimeter but could only get so far ahead AND included temporary floor to floor diagonal bracing of the core during construction.

As I said, had the perimeter columns and the large floor space between core and perimeter suddenly and magically disappeared causing no undue stress during that magical 'poof', the core would soon buckle and/or twist itself and fail.
 
Getting back to initial failure and the PBS doc that bill linked to;
That doc did not refer to a massive largely remaing core bill. At least not the part you linked to.
However I do note that the roofline is seen to move downward and the core is not seen spearing up through it so we do know that the core did fail.

I am refering to the fact that when one sees the top section begin to drop one does not see the core punching up through the roof. One does not see the hat truss being held up by the core either.
THUS it is obvious that at the initial collapse the core columns on the fire floors failed. They did not fail lower down during that initial failure. This is obvious for two reasons;
1) the PBS doc shows that the core did not collapse at the same rate as the perimeter. Had the core failed low down then this could not have been the case
2) had the core failed, say in the basement, the perimeter columns on EVERY floor would have been pulled inward

So we know for certain then that there were no explosives or thermite used on lower floors and certainly not in the basement in order to cause that initial collapse.
Done and done, then, with any such suggestion.

Were there explosives in the core in order to ensure that not only the perimeter and the floors came down thus killing anyone inside, but also the core? This would require that said explosives be mounted such that despite the destruction occuring to the floors (debris would be raining down through the core floors as well,between the beams) they were not stripped off the columns. There might be one way to do this by mounting them inside the box columns, any wireless timing mecahnism would also have to be mounted outside the columns(and a wired system is even more vulnerable) not to mention that a wireless system would have to work through the dense falling mass of debris and dust.. However now this is not the simple task of smuggling a cartload of explosives past security which included bomb-sniffing dogs, it now also requires extensive and noisy work to be done to the core columns. Given that this now becomes a task that would have a miniscule probability of not being discovered ( even bill agrees that some conjectures are just way too complicated to be credible) I believe that we can be assured that it did not occur.

We are left then only with explosives at the fire/impact floors.
Once again we run into the problem of how to mount them such that they, and their timing mechanism, are unaffected by either the chaos of an airliner impact, or the subsequent, immediate, large area, multi-floors fires. We are alos confronted with the problem of having explosives mounted on the floors that are impacted. One might mount them on many floors in a target zone but that would require absolute certainty that one could call upon the ones at the actual impact zone and only those ones.

Once again this gets to very complicated it is an exercise in ridiculousness to seriously conjecture that it did occur.

On the other hand we do have the impact and despite the incredulity of some that an aluminum aircraft could cause significant damage to a steel structure it indeed can and did.
The fuel was dispersed over the impact floors and ignited thus accellerating the office fires in a way never seen in 'normal office fires'. It meant that the fires were immediatly at a stage that noramlly takes hours to reach, in a structure significantly damaged by the impacts. The impacts had also compromised the active and passive fire suppression built into the structure.
 
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