• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Amway TV ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
Newton, I don't understand what blind spot you're talking about. I am as critical of Amway as most critics. I told you on the telephone my first step is to get the Amway tool scam shut down and THEN make a decision whether I will remain an IBO. I don't have the time to do this, my job, and other responsibilities AND start another business. As I told you, SOMEBODY has to take a stand, and I chose me. I already know you don't think there's enough money from Amway without the tool scam, and I already told you on this forum and on the telephone my approach is to shut down the tool scam and let the free market make that decision.

Jay, your friends were tool scammed.
 
Last edited:
jay.tarnoff said:
The entire pitch was sleazy from the start.
Click to expand...

If you'd have hung around for several years, you'd find it was the middle and end as well.

While some people do important things with their lives, or at least don't delude themselves into thinking they're doing important things...others tend to pick moronic crusades and then brag about it.

Perhaps this is an excellent opportunity (!) for Tex to provide his list of 'many factors' that he claims to have which proves he's not in a cult? I say he is. Outside of mental institutions, are there cults of one?
 
Nice transition from sleazy to a cult. LOL

I talked about the "cult" topic with Newton, anyone else is free to set up a call and discuss this issue as well. Be sure to record and play the call backwards, so you can hear the "Satan is the ruler of the universe" parts! LOL

By the way, I'm not into proving negatives: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

I suggest you ask Newton whether he thinks I'm a cult of one, or make a call yourself, with the above caution, of course! LOL
 
Tex2 said:
Newton, I don't understand what blind spot you're talking about. I am as critical of Amway as most critics. I told you on the telephone my first step is to get the Amway tool scam shut down and THEN make a decision whether I will remain an IBO. I don't have the time to do this, my job, and other responsibilities AND start another business. As I told you, SOMEBODY has to take a stand, and I chose me. I already know you don't think there's enough money from Amway without the tool scam, and I already told you on this forum and on the telephone my approach is to shut down the tool scam and let the free market make that decision.

Jay, your friends were tool scammed.
Click to expand...

If you like MLMs so much, why don't you just start your own? Why wait for any government to take action on Amway?

Starting your own MLM is probably easier and cheaper than buying your way into Amway. These idiots did it: DubLi.com; so can you!
 
I'd just like to briefly apologise for inflecting Tex and PorkChopJim on the JREF community. One of my stalkers apparently publicised the fact I was on JREF on an anti-amway board and these two escaped their compounds.

oh well. back to some of the other threads, where unlike this one, at least some of the participance know what they're talking about ....
 
I don't think Tex is a cult of one, just one of many in the cult of Amway (including icerat).

Newton, I don't understand what blind spot you're talking about. I am as critical of Amway as most critics. I told you on the telephone my first step is to get the Amway tool scam shut down and THEN make a decision whether I will remain an IBO. I don't have the time to do this, my job, and other responsibilities AND start another business. As I told you, SOMEBODY has to take a stand, and I chose me. I already know you don't think there's enough money from Amway without the tool scam, and I already told you on this forum and on the telephone my approach is to shut down the tool scam and let the free market make that decision.
Click to expand...

Please re-read this. This makes no sense Tex! Bailing from the business and doing something else completely is what you need. This stuff is too dangerous to just play around with.. don't you get that yet?
 
Push, why does it matter?

Richard, there are probably dozens, if not hundreds, of MLMs that start and go out of business every year. It's not as easy as you would like to think it is.

icerat/ibofb, YOU are the one who knows what you're talking about but refuse to admit the tool scam FACTS.

Newton, as I said on the call and said again above, SOMEBODY had to stand up to the tool scam, or it would go on and on, taking advantage of others indefinitely. I picked me. I'm not playing around, I'm very serious.. don't you get that yet?
 
Tex2 said:
... Richard, there are probably dozens, if not hundreds, of MLMs that start and go out of business every year. It's not as easy as you would like to think it is. ...
Click to expand...

Oh, it's very easy. A website costs $100 a year to maintain, including a domain name. If you don't know how to write html/css, you can find millions of templates for free. Or you can find a freshman in high-school and pay her $50 to fill the templates for you (more if you are not a greedy &^%***).

There's a catch, though. You'll have to invent misleading statistics and fake anecdotes because Amway won't be there to do the dirty work for you. Or you'll have to start recording tapes and bundle them with the license fees required to join your MLM. (You can say the tapes are free, but charge thousands just to join).

The problem is you want to diffuse the responsibility of deceiving your customers, and MLMs like Amway and DubLi are excellent at this.

It's difficult to be so directly involved in the deception and unethical practices, isn't it? That's the value that established MLM's offer. They don't generally offer any superior tangible products: the value they offer is that they will do most of the dirty work for you, so you can pretend to be in a legitimate business, and rationalize selling overpriced or inferior products.
 
It matters because you are hopelessly conflicted between a)your involvement in and b) opposition against Amway.

are there people involved in your part of the business that use tools? have you taken your views to them about the tool scam?
why are you still part of Amway when so much of its profits rely on a scam?

to the non-involved bystander it seems as if you morals are being bought by your business profits. if you wanted to change Amway from the inside there are much better ways to spend your time and making money out of Amway should not coexist with your campaign.

why if you think the tools are a scam have you bought thousands of them?

in your electricity company comparison its entirely reasonable to expect someone to still consume during a campaign to change it's policy (which in the overall scheme of a big company was small scale and importantly the siting of power lines can in no way be described as a scam). Conversely what's not at all clear is why you are still involved with Amway when you are seemingly so opposed to them.

that's why...

sorry for the long post but you seem unwilling to answer my short direct questions with anything other than a question.
 
jay.tarnoff said:
Just an anecdotal story:

One of the Quixtar sales employees was able to convince one of my college friends to join the group while we were all in college. My college buddy asked us to come to a meeting and said that he would essentially get us drunk for showing up and listening to the sales pitch...
Click to expand...

It is exactly this kind of no-nonsense kind of story-telling that makes the Amway naysayers seem like they're in the right. When the Ambots try to show us the light, it always gets complicated. The stories of failure are always simple.
 
It's also a rather unusual story (the drunk part), but let's not allow facts to get in the way of somone's spin on reality.
 
Tex has been quite clear on the phone that he thinks the tools are great. It's just the scam part (e.g. the profits from them) that he objects to. He's hopelessly brainwashed like the other drones about this. This is why he needs to get out of Amway and clear his head before proceeding with his campaign against the tools scam.
 
Newton, there are many sales oriented companies that use recordings for motivation and training.

Think about it: the LCKs didn't build large businesses BECAUSE of the prices on these recordings, but in SPITE of the prices. You are hopelessly brainwashed like the other drones about this. This is why you need to stay out of Amway and clear your head before proceeding with your campaign against both the tool scam and the tool content.
 
What other companies that aren't scams use "tools" that are similar to Amway and in similar volumes? I'm curious.
 
There's lots of motivational/sales training companies that have made a lot of money for a lot of years. You can look them up and find who their clients are if you are really curious. You are shifting from price, to content, and now to volume. Why not continue the discussion from above regarding price and content? Because you don't know what you're talking about and need to change the subject?
 
Price, content and volume are all important.

The sheer volume of crap that they want you to buy is basically insane.

The price isn't much different from other motivational crap as it's all usually very expensive.

The content is absolute pure nuttery.

Name another non-scam business that uses similar "tools". Many companies do things like give out copies of "How to win friends and influence people" or the "7 habits of highly effective people". This isn't really in the same category, nor do they make people pay for this stuff when they give it out.

So what motivational/sales training companies do it on the scale of Amway? Someone like Tony Robbins isn't really comparable for several reasons.

Legit businesses simply don't flood their recruits or employees with the sheer about of brainwashing garbage that Amway does. I would love an example that does!
 
I agree they are all important, but when you change the topic without addressing my point, all you do is slow down the debate. For example, if zero profit was being made on tools, the incentive would be to have each IBO use the appropriate amount of tools (for them, each individual is different) and focus on making money via Amway products. This would lead to more retailing and sponsoring. However, the current tool price/profit scenario puts most of the incentive on moving more tools to all IBOs.

Much of the content is very good. Some of it is nuttery.

You want another example? Mona Vie.

I'm not here to debate whether other MLMs allow tool scams, I'm here to shut down the Amway tool scam. Not the tools, the tool SCAM.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom