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Lambda-CDM theory - Woo or not?

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No, not wrong.

They didn't see that quark. They didn't even detect it directly. They detected some heat deposited in a calorimeter plus some other very complicated pattern of electronic signals in various detectors, something which they later interpreted as due to the production of a single top quark which lasted only for a tiny fraction of a second before forming part of a hadron or meson, plus other stuff. And they can't even prove by calculation that their theory - quantum chromodynamics - predicts that, because the calculations are so difficult not even a computer can do them very well.
 
No, not wrong.

They didn't see that quark. They didn't even detect it directly.

Indeed. Michael has no idea why particle physicists believe in quarks. He takes it on faith that they exist because it fits with his preconceptions, not because he actually understands the evidence for them. And he rejects modern cosmology not because he understands its limitations, but because it doesn't fit with his preconceptions.
 

Do you read your own links?
"While all of the pieces of the puzzle seem to fit with a quark-gluon plasma explanation, it is essential to study this newly produced matter at higher and lower temperature in order to fully characterize its properties and definitively confirm the quark gluon plasma interpretation."

They have no direct measurements in this experiment of any free quarks. They only pick up after-the-event signatures that get interpreted that way according to their model, but if the model is wrong, then those signatures could come from something other than quarks. So nope, by your standards quarks are fake.
 
Well, let's see where the "missing mass" is located, in the gas, or in the solar system infrastructures that pass right through each other.....



So essentially they confirmed that the "missing matter" is located inside the stars and solar system infrastructures of the galaxy. Big deal. I knew that much from the bullet cluster data. It is just additional evidence that your industry cannot correctly calculate the mass of galaxy with current guestimation techniques. Not one single line of that paper demonstrates that any of the missing mass is "non-baryonic" exotic matter.
I particularly thought of you when I read the article, MM.

Here is the image:

zitrinbroadhurstfigure1.jpg


Can you account for this image, MM?

Specifically, there *seems* to be multiple, distorted, images of the one, background, spiral galaxy.

Now Zitrin and Broadhurst, in the paper I cited in an earlier post, not only account for the obvious bits (the blue tendrils etc), in a logically consistent, rigorous, *quantitative* fashion (using physics which has been *EMPIRICALLY* tested, in the lab as well as in space), but they also account for some ~30 dim fragments found in the original data (as you know, contemporary astronomical images are just data presented in one visual form).
 
From the article;

"So what does this tell us? The model of the lens outlines the (projected 2D) mass profile of the cluster – which doesn’t seem to agree with numerical simulations for clusters, assuming a standard ΛCDM cosmology. The mass concentration in the center of the cluster is higher than predicted, a result that has also been found for other massive clusters studied with gravitational lensing. This implies that we’re either missing some physics in our simulations, or we may need to modify our cosmological model."


Let me see if I have this right.

They process the images based on the assumption that the "blue galaxies" are lensed by the "foreground" cluster.
At a short sentence summary level, yes.

They convolve the images to some shape and measure the mass concentration in the images.
The Discovery blog entry summarises what's involved better; they start with a model of the lens (i.e. the 2D distribution of the mass), and tweak it until they have consistency.

This leads to predictions of where, and what shape, other lensed images should be found. They take a deeper look at the data, discover that there are, indeed, many other, quite faint, lensed images. These are then input to the model, which is iterated one more time.

A technical note: the number of degrees of freedom (crudely, how much tweaking they can do) is much less than number of the independent data points ... this means that if there is no distribution of mass acting like a lens, or if mass/gravity doesn't bend light as described by GR, or if the background galaxies are at different distances, or ... then there will be an inconsistent result.

If this does not match the ΛCDM model then they say there is dark matter there?
You rather badly misunderstood that part.

The lens reconstruction/mass distribution modelling owes nothing to ΛCDM models! :jaw-dropp

Simulations based on ΛCDM models, such as the Millennium simulation, are simplifications of how part of the universe evolved, over a particular period.

AFAIK, no such simulation has attempted to model the evolution of the universe with the electromagnetic, weak, and strong forces accounted for.

If clusters seem to have isodense cores, as at least some dwarf galaxies do too, perhaps this is an indication that some key physical processes have been overlooked, or ignored? Or perhaps ΛCDM models need to be re-examined?

That is insane. Religion. Too much faith in their beautiful equations. Incorrect use of a computer. Danger Will Robinson.....
This I do not understand at all.

If it were 'religion', with lots of 'faith', then why would astronomers, astrophysicists, and cosmologists be happy with papers like Zitrin & Broadhurst's? Why would they bother spending hundreds of hours of time on the worlds' best telescopes, to take ever better and deeper images?

I would choose option B except I dont think that modify is a strong enough word. I would choose "falsify"..
And you'd be in good company (well, 'modify'-wise).

Your post, that I am quoting, seems to reflect the 'naive falsificationism' which even its creator (Popper) was at pains to point out would be ridiculous way to do science ...

To sum up: here we see science at its best, working in exactly the way it's supposed to. Or, if you prefer, ΛCDM theory: the very antithesis of scientific woo.
 
Oh my MM, they did not produce a top quark in isolation, did they?

Where does it say that?

Have you ever heard of hadron jeis and the like before?

Do I need to PM Cuddles so you can tell him he is wrong as well?
 

No MM, it's not wrong. Don't you ever get tired of arguing from ignorance?

If anyone ever observes a single free quark, it will falsify the standard model of particle physics - because a fundamental part of that model is quark confinement, and quark confinement means quarks cannot exist as isolated particles for more than a tiny, tiny fraction of a second.

To detect a quark directly would require a detector smaller than the nucleus of an atom. Since that's totally impossible, their existence must be inferred - using mathematics, computer simulations, and interpolations - from data that's many, many steps removed from any such direct detection.
 
Actually that fraction you speak of is within close non-dimensionality of the Planck Time. If this is the case, then no one can measure a free particle, its not a matter of ''if we ever''. Direct observation is never exact due to uncertainty, however we can detect their presences in particle accelerators which can map some trajectory which seems to become more and more uncertain, so the knowledge we can obtain is limited. I do believe the last particle we detected for the Standard Model was the Axion, and before that we found the Top-Quark, i think in the 90's... i
 
No, it's not the same thing. The *ONLY* claim to fame that inflation has is it's "prediction" of a "homogeneous" layout of matter. If the universe isn't homogeneously distributed, then your beloved inflation is DOA. Oh wait, I forgot, that deity is already dead and gone.
What??? You said, and I'll quote again:
No, it is absolutely *NOT* an "experiment". They are simply *OBSERVING* events in space, and have *zero* in the way of "control mechanisms". No cause/effect relationships can be established that way.
The dark flow observations you were previously bigging up was also "*OBSERVING* events in space, and have *zero* in the way of "control mechanisms"" given your previous ideas of control mechanisms (which, by the way were stupid).
The fact that you will dismiss one set of observations because "They are simply *OBSERVING* events in space, and have *zero* in the way of "control mechanisms"" but kept praising the dark flow observations which by your own definitions were "simply *OBSERVING* events in space, and have *zero* in the way of "control mechanisms"" makes you a hypocrite.
So explain to me why do you believe in inflation and dark thingies?
I don't "believe in inflation and dark thingies". I know, partially from first-hand experience, that there is very very strong evidence for non-baryonic dark matter. I'll freely admit I don't understand the ins and outs of inflation (though I clearly know a lot more about it than you). But I at least know qualitatively what the evidence for it is.

I'm 49 now. I'm a fully grown man with two kids, a wife and I own my own business.
So why do you act like an 8 year old?

I guess you just don't want to respond to my question eh?
I've just become rather bored of your hypocrisy, ignorance, arrogance and childishness. If you want to ask sensible science questions free from faeries, pixies and deities (alive, dead or otherwise) I will try to answer them. But if you want to write like a child trying to emulate JRR Tolkein then I think I'll find something better to do with my spare time.
 
No, not wrong.

They didn't see that quark. They didn't even detect it directly. They detected some heat deposited in a calorimeter plus some other very complicated pattern of electronic signals in various detectors, something which they later interpreted as due to the production of a single top quark which lasted only for a tiny fraction of a second before forming part of a hadron or meson, plus other stuff. And they can't even prove by calculation that their theory - quantum chromodynamics - predicts that, because the calculations are so difficult not even a computer can do them very well.

Amen and a Hallelujah.
It was just a piece of an electron(or proton)!! (or a false signal).

Just like you dont call a piece of pie something else. Its just a piece of pie.

Brant
 
Using the TOPS data base you can see what the opacities of different types of plasmas are. The photosphere comes to mind.
TOPS Opacities
Opacities of mixtures (calculated by TOPS® using LEDCOP® elemental opacities)
http://www.t4.lanl.gov/cgi-bin/opacity/tops.pl

The reason why they picked that wavelength(171, 192) is because they could see interesting stuff. Guess what? If you use the TOPS database you find that for a plasma of the type "photosphere" there is a large decrease in absorption amplitude in the UV and EUV.

Translation. You can see through the photosphere at those extreme UV wavelengths.

Down to the footprints of loops at the surface of the sun.

But I should stop here since this is not related to CDM.
 
Using the TOPS data base you can see what the opacities of different types of plasmas are. The photosphere comes to mind.
TOPS Opacities
Opacities of mixtures (calculated by TOPS® using LEDCOP® elemental opacities)
http://www.t4.lanl.gov/cgi-bin/opacity/tops.pl

The reason why they picked that wavelength(171, 192) is because they could see interesting stuff. Guess what? If you use the TOPS database you find that for a plasma of the type "photosphere" there is a large decrease in absorption amplitude in the UV and EUV.

Translation. You can see through the photosphere at those extreme UV wavelengths.

Down to the footprints of loops at the surface of the sun.

But I should stop here since this is not related to CDM.
You should not stop. You have just made the same unsupported assertion that you made in the electric universe thread. You did not read or reply to my question then:
I assume that yoiu mean the TOPS Opacities (the same one that a poster called upriver at BAUT was going to look at in yet another old surface of the sun thread).
What parameters did you enter?
Maybe you will answer now.


Can you tell us this so that we can tell whether you are lying or not:
  1. What parameters you put into the TOPS page to get your results?
  2. How much is "large"?
  3. When you plug "large" into the optical depth equations is the result 4800 kilometers? Or even 500 kilometers?
And another question:
Why do you think that all astronomers for many decades have been deluded into thinking that they cannot see into the photosphere just by applying a filter to their telescope?
 
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Michael Mozina.
You have replied to the question about whether the evidence for dark matter is valid with basically the assertion that astronomers have underestimated the mass of visible matter in galaxies (this would have to be by an order of magnitude). It occurs to me that given your lack of knowledge of physics as shown in this thread you may not know how astronomers measure this.

The Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics has a students guide to dark matter (a streaming video). You should look at the supplementary material:
Measuring the Mass of the Sun.
Measuring the Mass of a Galaxy: Orbital Method.
Measuring the Mass of a Galaxy: Brightness Method.

The first link is about measuring the mass of the Sun using Kepler's third law of motion using just the orbital parameters of Jupiter (or any other planet). This is also used to measure the masses of the stars in binary systems. I mention this just in case you think that the unaccounted for mass is somehow hidden away in stars.

The second link is about applying Kepler's third law of motion to galaxies to measure their total mass.

The third link is about how to calculate the mass of the visible matter in a galaxy.
 
Michael Mozina.
You have replied to the question about whether the evidence for dark matter is valid with basically the assertion that astronomers have underestimated the mass of visible matter in galaxies (this would have to be by an order of magnitude).

I posted this before, but it might bear repeating:

"Astronomers Karl Gebhardt of The University of Texas at Austin and Jens Thomas of the Max Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics have used new computer modeling techniques to discover that the black hole at the heart of M87, one the largest nearby giant galaxies, is two to three times more massive than previously thought.

Weighing in at 6.4 billion times the Sun's mass, it is the most massive black hole yet measured with a robust technique, and suggests that the accepted black hole masses in nearby large galaxies may be off by similar amounts."


Now, it's only a factor of 2-3 increase, so not quite an order of magnitude.
 
I posted this before, but it might bear repeating:

"Astronomers Karl Gebhardt of The University of Texas at Austin and Jens Thomas of the Max Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics have used new computer modeling techniques to discover that the black hole at the heart of M87, one the largest nearby giant galaxies, is two to three times more massive than previously thought.

Weighing in at 6.4 billion times the Sun's mass, it is the most massive black hole yet measured with a robust technique, and suggests that the accepted black hole masses in nearby large galaxies may be off by similar amounts."


Now, it's only a factor of 2-3 increase, so not quite an order of magnitude.
It's important to keep in mind that the mass of any SMBHs in galactic nuclei are essentially trivial when compared with the estimated mass of the galaxy they are in, even out to 25th B-mag isophote (and we know that there is substantial mass in most galaxies well beyond this) ... so changes in estimates of the SMBHs - even by an order of magnitude! - have little effect on estimates of the total galaxy mass.
 
It's important to keep in mind that the mass of any SMBHs in galactic nuclei are essentially trivial when compared with the estimated mass of the galaxy they are in, even out to 25th B-mag isophote (and we know that there is substantial mass in most galaxies well beyond this) ... so changes in estimates of the SMBHs - even by an order of magnitude! - have little effect on estimates of the total galaxy mass.

DRD, thanks for this excellent reminder.

I find estimates for the total mass of M87 at 2.4 x 10^12 out to some distance (no info on isophote), which is about 300 times the newly derived mass of the black hole.
 
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