Simon39759
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Well, apparently Rudolf stated:
So... there you go
The link was ktesibios' third link, seems like a must read if you are interested on the subject.
9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust
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Well, apparently Rudolf stated:
So... there you go
The link was ktesibios' third link, seems like a must read if you are interested on the subject.
9/11-investigator
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You still believe in the 'soap from Jewish fat' myth, dudalb? Even yad vashem has retracted on this issue.
Here again the link to the Alfred Hitchcock propaganda flick about the holocaust. This movie is the core of the holocaust.
http://www.qaranc.co.uk/belsen_concentration_camp.php
34:30 - Dachau is portrayed as an 'extermination center' (nobody believes that anymore)
41:15 - lamp shades from human skin, a complete fabrication
41:30 - they show 'shrunken heads', an absurd claim
And here is the thorough debunking of the Hitchcock lies:
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n1p-2_Faurisson.html
Situated near Hannover, Bergen-Belsen was originally established as a camp for wounded soldiers. In 1943 it became a detention center for European Jews who were to be exchanged for German civilians held by the Allies. In the middle of the war, Jews were transferred from that camp to Switzerland or, by way of Turkey, even to Palestine (yet another proof, as may be pointed out in passing, of the absence of an extermination program)….
Until the end of 1944, conditions for inmates at Bergen-Belsen were about normal…
Germany, on its last legs, could no longer deal with the influx of its own eastern refugees arriving by the millions. It could no longer manage to supply its army with weapons and ammunition, or its population with food. Finally, it could no longer remedy the tragic conditions in camps where even guards were dying of typhus…
The Jew Sydney Lewis Bernstein, London head of the Home Office cinema section, called on Alfred Hitchcock to make a film on these “Nazi atrocities.” Hitchcock accepted, but, in the end, only fragments of his film were made public, probably because the complete version contained assertions that might cast doubt on its authenticity. note 53
On the whole, the “shock of Bergen-Belsen” was a great success for Allied propaganda. In every possible way, the media exploited it to show dead and dying camp inmates to the world at large, but while at the same time leading viewers, through commentary, to think that these inmates had been killed, murdered, or exterminated, or else were walking corpses condemned to perish as victims of killing, murder, or extermination. Thus, on the basis of the ghastly conditions in a camp that, as already noted, had neither crematories nor (as conventional historians acknowledge) any homicidal gas chamber, was built the general myth of the existence and use, at Auschwitz and elsewhere, of “gas chambers” coupled with crematories…
Among the most famous casualties of epidemics in that camp were Anne Frank and her sister Margot who, for nearly 40 years, were widely and persistently said to have been gassed at Auschwitz (from where, in fact, they had been brought), or killed at Bergen-Belsen. Today, it is generally conceded that they died of typhus at Bergen-Belsen in February-March 1945.
stateofgrace
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It’s a paradox that holocaust deniers face when they accuse the USG of being a Nazi state.
If the US really was a Nazi state capable of mass murder , i.e. 911, Iraq etc then surely to really compare the US to Nazi Germany it would be better to promote the holocaust rather than deny it.
After all, how can the US government be comparable to Nazi Goverment when all holocaust deniers do is excuse one Government of mass murder and accuse the other of it.
If the US really was a Nazi state capable of mass murder , i.e. 911, Iraq etc then surely to really compare the US to Nazi Germany it would be better to promote the holocaust rather than deny it.
After all, how can the US government be comparable to Nazi Goverment when all holocaust deniers do is excuse one Government of mass murder and accuse the other of it.
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HereticHulk
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9/11-investigator
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OK. Do you want to suggest that Rudolf basically went to jail for nothing? That he actually had orthodox views on the holocaust?
Of course not.
The point is, the revisionists do not need to solely rely on chemistry to debunk the claims.
The holo-orthodoxists are unable to deliver positive proof that it happened as alleged.
Even holocaust pope Raul Hilberg had to admit during the Toronto Zundel trial that there were no documents whatsoever that referred to the holocaust.
Eichmann was a bureaucrat. He never killed anybody. The only thing he did was organizing the deportations of the Jews to the East. Just like present day logistics managers organize the transport of containers.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p237_Okeefe.html
he persistently rejects the accusation that he was the organizer of the "Final Solution" or the "flywheel of the extermination machine."
And what SS guard are you talking about? Just give me the name and I'll debunk it for you for free.
I like being a debunker for a change.
You'll have to try again. I'm afraid that Eichmann disagreed very strongly with your latest feeble lies.
9/11-investigator
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USG=USA? I'll never accuse the US of being a Nazi state. Nazi Germany was a totalitarian racialist state ('blonde communism'). The US is not (yet) a totalitarian state but it is a 'racial communist state'. And the designers of 9/11 had their legal framework ready on the very day of 9/11 (Patriot Act) in order to turn the US into a totalitarian state.
[COLOR]If the US really was a Nazi state capable of mass murder , i.e. 911, Iraq etc then surely to really compare the US to Nazi Germany it would be better to promote the holocaust rather than deny it.
It seems impossible for you to view the holocaust as an event seperated from political context. In your view one has to be a partisan. Historical truth is not very high on your agenda.
I don't excuse the Nazi government at all from their misdeeds which were plentyful.
What I don't like is that people are being accused of crimes they did not commit. And I certainly don't like that this mythological event is being used to push my society into a direction (multiculturalism) I don't like at all.
9/11-investigator
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Vague, FineWine, very vague.
Could you please put a little more effort in trying to formulate a real answer to my assertions?
1:47 am in Holland I sign off. Have a good weekend.
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GreNME
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You see, HH, this is the kind of word game nonsense that makes these types of conversations turn away from rational, critical thinking. How about you try again without the attempts at a "gotcha!" game? If you're curious as to what I was saying about statements on the crematoriums that were false, then do so. Don't play intellectually dishonest with me.
Yes and if watch the Errol Morris film to get a specific answer to this question. I know you won't but it's worth addressing. Morris attacks and defeats this weak line of Holocaust denialism head on, unequivocally.
The Nazis themselves denied what they were doing -- there was no order "to viciously round up and murder Jewish civilians and any other undesirables using enormous death machines." Your Nazi heroes used abstract technocratic bureaucratic language on purpose they spoke about "neutralizing" or "liquidating" "populations."
Historians have shows that the Nazis themselves were the first Holocaust deniers. Let me go out on a limb here and guess that you, being a modern Dutch Nazi sympathizer, would have happily gone along with the Nazi butchery of your countrymen after the Wehrmacht overran your nation during WWII, so long as it was dressed up, to you, the collaborator, as "deporting populations" and "work camps."
Watch the Morris film, look at the Nazis' own memoranda. Go to Auschwitz and read the Nazis' documentation. Read the Nazis' orders. It's all there. You're so blinded by your impotent rage and scapegoating of Jews for whatever is wrong in your life you cannot see the facts even if they are staring you in the face. So you flail around desperately for loopy charlatans like Fred Leuchter to lend your crackpot views an ounce of credibility or a patina of scientific verification.
It's truly pathetic.
And read "The Banality of Evil" if you ever want to make an attempt to extracate whatever is left of your humanity and whatever is left of your soul from the miserable, hate-filled cauldron of racism, resentment and lies you stew in every day of your life.
stateofgrace
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Oh I see where you are coming from now, the US is not a Nazi State it is just becoming a Nazi state right? Is this the same country that has just had a democratic election and voted Bush out? That want to be Nazi State?
Incorrect, truth is not high on your agenda.Unlike you I am more than happy to accept recorded verifiable historical events. I do not have the desire, unlike you, to cherry pick historical events and imagine that I see something that the rest of the planet missed. I leave this to the very clever or the very deluded. You fall into the later category.
Yes you do, you are a holocaust denier.
You accuse the Jews and the USG of mass murder with zero evidence.
I really don't care what you like. Facts beat your dislikes hands down. Facts kick you petty and juvenile hatred into touch everyday. Facts ride rough shot over your personnel dislikes. I personally dislike you and your entire holocaust denying ilk, but that is immaterial to this post.
Holocaust deniers have zero input to society; do not kid yourself that the larger society pays the slightest attention to your rantings. They do not, society moves quite freely with or without your input. This is because you are an irrelevance. Your twisted view of history and world events mean zero to the larger society. Maybe you should go back to the tiny insignificant, repugnant group from where you came from. Here you can spew your filth and absorb the other filth that twists your mind.
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Simon39759
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Of course not. Rudolf is just yet another denialist scumbag.
But the reason why he is relevant, and the reason why you brought him up, is because of his expertise in chemistry.
By declaring that chemistry was irrelevant, Rudolf declared his own expertise irrelevant and, hence, relegate himself to the same level as any arm-chair historian.
Did you miss that or are you also in denial about that?
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Travis
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It starts with the revelation of a horrible story; Joe3 had abducted 12 children named "Mike" and kept them in his dungeon of a basement where he fed them barely enough to survive. It was well known, even before this, that Joe3 had a pathological hatred for little boys named "Mike" but the depravity of such a crime took even Joe3's enemies by surprise. But, it seems, there was more to the story. Joe3 had, after the abductions began, started a shooting melee with his neighbor, Steve, but quickly realized that he didn't have enough of the special bullets he needed to have a chance of winning so he put his captive children to work. But Joe3 started losing ground and Steve was rightly pissed because, while Joe3 was temporarily occupying his front yard, several of his own kids were murdered and the one boy, named Mike, was now missing. Thus Joe3 started demanding more work from his captives while simultaneously cutting their rations. Soon the stress and starvation took its toll and the captive "Mikes" started dying from disease and malnourishment. Eventually Joe3 found he could no longer win the war with Steve and conceded defeat. In the aftermath his "Mike" abduction and slavery program was uncovered, by then only two remained alive.
But several things now emerged. In his execution of the attack on Steve, Joe3 had gone through the houses of Alan, Dina and Rose. They all had "Mike's" that had gone missing too and weren't accounted for in the 10 bodies in Joe3's basement. At this point someone notices a huge pile of ashes out back and, at the same time, the surviving Mikes tell a tale: it seems that Joe3 had been holding many more "Mikes" than people had originally thought. He had over 60 of them, but many were weak, or considered dangerous, and so, with the commencement of the war on Steve, Joe3 had taken these kids to the chicken coop and they were never seen alive again. The remaining 12 "Mikes" had been forced to burn up their bodies and dump them in a pile, after this they were worked to death making Joe3's arms of war.
The town comes together and realizes that, indeed, about 60 Mikes are missing and unaccounted for. They are rightly ticked off and a mob gathers to deliver vengeance on Joe3. But now two new guys show up, we'll call them neo-Joe3's and Irving. They argue that Joe3 wasn't that bad, that the 60 kids were not killed there because they have not seen the bodies. They continue by arguing that only the 10 who's bodies were found were killed there and that people should therefore show Joe3 mercy and, instead, go punish the still recovering Mikes for lying.
The people rightly tell neo-Joe3 and Irving to just "piss off!" After all, not even Joe3 is denying the massive death toll but is merely trying to justify it by telling everyone what a menace the "Mikes" really were. Besides, they point out, there is still the matter of the missing 60+ "Mikes," the fact that Joe3 had clearly hated them enough to start abducting them, the fact that Joe3 had not thought much of working them to death as slaves and was, finally, still undeniably responsible for the deaths of the 10 identified Mikes which is still a horrible crime in itself!
"Ah, but," neo-Joe3 and Irving counter, "those 10 died because Joe3 was at war, not only with Steve but also with Frank, Joan and Teddy and that their campaigns to cut off supplies to Joe3 were the reason he had to ration food to them and that led to their deaths." There is a collective pause before everyone points out that Joe3 had started the abductions, and was therefore responsible for them, but, more importantly, had started the freaking war that ended up cutting off his supplies!
As Joe3 is led to the gallows neo-Joe3 and Irving are driven from town, a memorial is built to the dead "Mikes" and everyone else, in their own ways, try to get on with their lives.
But several things now emerged. In his execution of the attack on Steve, Joe3 had gone through the houses of Alan, Dina and Rose. They all had "Mike's" that had gone missing too and weren't accounted for in the 10 bodies in Joe3's basement. At this point someone notices a huge pile of ashes out back and, at the same time, the surviving Mikes tell a tale: it seems that Joe3 had been holding many more "Mikes" than people had originally thought. He had over 60 of them, but many were weak, or considered dangerous, and so, with the commencement of the war on Steve, Joe3 had taken these kids to the chicken coop and they were never seen alive again. The remaining 12 "Mikes" had been forced to burn up their bodies and dump them in a pile, after this they were worked to death making Joe3's arms of war.
The town comes together and realizes that, indeed, about 60 Mikes are missing and unaccounted for. They are rightly ticked off and a mob gathers to deliver vengeance on Joe3. But now two new guys show up, we'll call them neo-Joe3's and Irving. They argue that Joe3 wasn't that bad, that the 60 kids were not killed there because they have not seen the bodies. They continue by arguing that only the 10 who's bodies were found were killed there and that people should therefore show Joe3 mercy and, instead, go punish the still recovering Mikes for lying.
The people rightly tell neo-Joe3 and Irving to just "piss off!" After all, not even Joe3 is denying the massive death toll but is merely trying to justify it by telling everyone what a menace the "Mikes" really were. Besides, they point out, there is still the matter of the missing 60+ "Mikes," the fact that Joe3 had clearly hated them enough to start abducting them, the fact that Joe3 had not thought much of working them to death as slaves and was, finally, still undeniably responsible for the deaths of the 10 identified Mikes which is still a horrible crime in itself!
"Ah, but," neo-Joe3 and Irving counter, "those 10 died because Joe3 was at war, not only with Steve but also with Frank, Joan and Teddy and that their campaigns to cut off supplies to Joe3 were the reason he had to ration food to them and that led to their deaths." There is a collective pause before everyone points out that Joe3 had started the abductions, and was therefore responsible for them, but, more importantly, had started the freaking war that ended up cutting off his supplies!
As Joe3 is led to the gallows neo-Joe3 and Irving are driven from town, a memorial is built to the dead "Mikes" and everyone else, in their own ways, try to get on with their lives.
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Nope. I'm suggesting, of course, that they killed the children as well -- that's why there were no children above a certain age in those families. All of the children in the neighborhood were, naturally, born after the war.
OF COURSE that's the Jews' fault. Iceberg, Goldberg, Rosenberg... they're all the same.
Out of curiosity, Skeptic: How did these German names like "Berg/Rosen/Feld/Spiegel" etc. came about in the first place? - Or are those literal German translations of former hebrew names?
its an interesting topic. left best for another thread though. but basically, Jews were forced to adopt last names in the 17th and 18th century.
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