9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[FineWine]

I wonder why Eichmann, on trial for his life, never thought of pretending that the genocide never occurred. Why did he claim that he had just followed orders if he wasn't guilty of anything. Must have slipped his mind.

 

[Brainster]

Prove to me that Holland exists. The whole concept seems ridiculous. Windmills and wooden shoes? Signs for a red-light district, and hash smoking in the bars? Absurd! Yes, I was there in my college days, but it could have been a movie set that was placed there just to fool me.

So I deny completely this absurd farce of Holland. For that matter, all of Europe seems to be an Illuminati plot to convince us that there are whole countries that are more liberal than the Democrats in Congress. Hogwash! I know that the world ends about 15 blocks from where I live, and after that the movie just repeats with a bit of variation.

And don't get me started on the World Trade Center. Twin towers 110-stories high? Never happen; they'd melt at the top. Yeah, melt. You don't really think the sun is 93 million miles away, do you?

 

[MG1962]

Establish that guilt for me, here for everybody to see. Come on then, don't hide behind sophistry. Or admit that you cannot prove it, and that is precisely the case.

Here are roughly 19,000 pieces of evidence

http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/php/docs_swi.php?DI=1&text=overview

And the 42 volumes of trial transcripts

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/NT_major-war-criminals.html

Please feel free to refute this body of work - I dont have to prove anything, that was done 60 years ago. You unfortunately have the burdon of proof squarely at your feet

 

[Corsair 115]

Please feel free to refute this body of work - I dont have to prove anything, that was done 60 years ago. You unfortunately have the burdon of proof squarely at your feet

I have the feeling the over/under on the refutation is not favourable...

 

[Mikister]

February 14, 1942: The Führer once again expressed his determination to clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that has now overtaken them. Their destruction will go hand in hand with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process with cold ruthlessness.

March 27, 1942: The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent can be used for forced labor.

-Goebbels' diary

 

[DC]

Doesnt matter if it was 1 million or 6 million or 12 million.
it doesnt matter if they was gassed or shot.
It doesnt matter if they were jews or roma , they are Human beeings.

not like you.

 

[timhau]

I have more than in your worst nightmares. But I am not going to take the bait. I'll repeat:

Somebody is innocent until proven guilty.

... except the Nazis, who are innocent even after proven guilty.

 

[Thunder]

didnt the Nazis report that Lithuania was "Judenrein"? did they accomplish this by sending der Juden to Disneyland?

its one thing to debate the exact number of Jewish Holocaust deaths. it is between 4.5 million and 7 million.

but to say that the Holocaust didn't happen or that only 200,000 died..is the height of absurdity.

 

[GreNME]

didnt the Nazis report that Lithuania was "Judenrein"? did they accomplish this by sending der Juden to Disneyland?

its one thing to debate the exact number of Jewish Holocaust deaths. it is between 4.5 million and 7 million.

but to say that the Holocaust didn't happen or that only 200,000 died..is the height of absurdity.

It certainly is (completely absurd), but for a forum based on skeptical analysis and critical thinking, particularly on a subforum where history is regularly discussed, I find a lot of the replies here to be precisely the kind of overly-emotional, venomous, and anger-addled invective that these revisionist trolls are fishing for in the first place.

Seriously, if someone pops up with this nonsense, then if you feel up to it have them go through the 66 Questions gamut first and foremost. More often than not, the intellectual dishonesty in their trolling will shine through and they no longer have to be taken seriously (or ignored if you want). If they want to bring up nonsense pieces of paper like the one linked in the image earlier-- which dates to the 1970's and is not a full accounting of all who died, despite what the revisionists want to clip-n-quote as their "evidence"-- then take apart the veracity of their supposed evidence. If one feels up to the task, take them through the (literally) reams of evidence (German translation required), particularly volumes 28 through 42 (the evidence and evidential documents).

I'll be honest: nine out of ten times the revisionist dips deeply into the realm of intellectual dishonesty within the first few presented (and typically pre-packaged) "arguments" that they make, and once that happens they dig their own hole.

 

[babbits]

Tomwaits asks: "What would you accept as proof? "

Well, the usual holocaust denier would accept, say, a video of someone who looks just like Hitler who was pushing the button to release the gas, who then identifies him or herself as Hitler by name, date of birth, grandma's middle name, etc., and then the camera shifts so that we see someone inside the gas chamber choking, then lying still, and then Hitler swabs the inside of his own cheek with a q-tip and puts the contents into a bottle and then does the same for the corpse and then puts the corpse into an oven and switches it on and we watch the body burn to ashes through a glass door in the oven. Then Hitler signs a confession and puts all the evidence into a time capsule and tells us where we can find it.

And then we go and find the time capsule and test the DNA and it's Hitler's or a close relative and the gassee is a Jewish person and the signature on the confession checks out as Hitler's and ...

... but wait! It's all fake. The 'Jewish person' was an actor who did a good job of faking choking to death. The corpse was real, but brought in and switched for the live person while 'Hitler' was swabbing his cheek. 'Hitler' was a actor, too, and the DNA sample was switched with that of a descendant of Hitler's sister, who was paid to donate it and keep his mouth shut. The signature was a fake, generated by a master-forger who got hooker-visitation rights in return for the signature, and the documents were switched when the camera was on the oven door.

So, no, tomwaits, that's no good. Oh, and by the way, the world will end on July 15, 2009. And the south won the civil war. And the Republicans didn't screw up: George W. was a crypto-Communist ringer whose assignment was to discredit the Repub's and make them look like fools and greedy idiots who think you can wage hi-tech war without raising taxes to pay for it.

Oh, and by the way. I don't think six million died. That's a calculation based on demographics. The Nazis didn't keep documentation of all the killing. Towards the end, they just didn't have time to do the paperwork.

 

[lightfire22000]

didnt the Nazis report that Lithuania was "Judenrein"? did they accomplish this by sending der Juden to Disneyland?

its one thing to debate the exact number of Jewish Holocaust deaths. it is between 4.5 million and 7 million.

but to say that the Holocaust didn't happen or that only 200,000 died..is the height of absurdity.

No, Walt Disney wasn't the biggest fan of the Jews.

The biggest injustice is that some people forget about all of the non-Jews that died in the camps. I think it was roughly another 5 million people.

 

[Prieure]

This is what 9-11 investigator wants, to continue this argument, having made it completely circular. There is only one piece of evidence that will be accepted which is autopsies and this cannot be provided, if the rules were different and other evidence was accepted then we enter an argument that can be won. Revisionist history can be used to prove or disprove anything. Once the history is reported and time moves on 60 years it becomes easier and easier for a circular argument like this to be used by someone with an agenda like 9-11 investigator to make statements about horrific crimes. You take far too much pleasure from this argument 9-11 it's one thing to make claims about the past it's another to take enjoyment from the fact that people can't win a circular argument about something so disgusting. The only reason autopsies are the only evidence you require is because you know no-one will be able to turn round and produce one. That's a debating style with so many holes it isn't funny. Also please do not try and turn this argument into one that involves European law v American law, as someone from this side of the Atlantic, I completely reject that you are representing European law in any way, in many places in Europe it is a completely illegal crime to deny the Holocaust in any way, even calling it the Bunnycaust is about as gross as it comes. Plus the far right is on the increase in Europe far more than America, something that sickens me to my stomach, and wherever we see the BNP or the far right in other countries they should be reviled and rejected. Oh for time machines to prove all this to you and dump you back with the Nazis so you could really experience the period first hand. So you don't believe it happened, that doesn't change anything. What sickness do you have that means you enjoy this so much?

 

[GreNME]

The biggest injustice is that some people forget about all of the non-Jews that died in the camps. I think it was roughly another 5 million people.

That's actually the real horror of it all. So many people were killed with such dispassionate lack of any regard to humanity (and plenty of passionate hate in some circles), that someone could spend their whole lives trying to track down every case involved in the massive killings and still barely make a dent in the numbers. The numbers themselves even seem unreal-- millions of people, at least 10 or 11 million total, were non-combatant victims. Even in these days where 'million' has been replaced by 'billion' and 'trillion' as the 'unreal' number, the number of deaths is staggering.

 

[D'rok]

In Europe we hold the view that somebody is innocent until proven guilty

Are you quite sure about that? Surely you meant "in European countries that use the adversarial system...", yes?

The goal of both the adversarial system and the inquisitorial system is to find the truth. But the adversarial system seeks the truth by pitting the parties against each other in the hope that competition will reveal it, whereas the inquisitorial system seeks the truth by questioning those most familiar with the events in dispute. The adversarial system places a premium on the individual rights of the accused, whereas the inquisitorial system places the rights of the accused secondary to the search for truth.

http://law.jrank.org/pages/7663/Inquisitorial-System.html

 

[I Ratant]

...

I'll be honest: nine out of ten times the revisionist dips deeply into the realm of intellectual dishonesty within the first few presented (and typically pre-packaged) "arguments" that they make, and once that happens they dig their own hole.

.
The theological term "invincible ignorance" can be applied in a modified version to describe the Holocaust denier.
Invincible -stupidity-!
As such, not worth the time to even discuss the subject with those self-proclaimed retards.

 

[9/11-investigator]

maybe you should look into it a bit more

Of course I should and I will after 9/11 is solved.

what about the other 5 million they executed that werent jewish?
when they shot people in the streets, death marches, etc

There were tens of millions people killed on all sides.

id say that you need to prove that a single jew (or political prisoner, gypsy, etc) wasnt killed and how it was fabricated - in your opinion

That's easy then: nobody claims that the icon of the holocaust, Anne Frank, was killed. Nor was her sister or her father. The Germans even tried their best to save him in their hospital. That's 3 for you.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Nobody thinks that Anne Frank was gassed.

Very good, FineWine, she was not. She died from typhus like most inmates who died in the camps.

But how many people know that?

So why is it that of all persons they choose her as the icon of the holocaust, where she was killed as a consequence of the war effort of the Allies. A good laywer could defend the case that she was (indirectly and unintentionally) killed by the Allies rather than the Germans. Her sister, same story. Her father, Otto Frank, was even treated in a hospital and survived the war and the camps. But that doesn't match at all with the conventional horror explanation of what happened in the camps.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Ah, look, the Hitler Fanboy

Quote, link, proof?

Zero, nada. The usual slander.

 

[9/11-investigator]

"What would you accept as proof?" is the question that Michael Shermer asks deniers in his book, and it is a good one. The point is that holocaust deniers will never accept any proof...in their mind it's never good enough, which helps explain the bizarre chant "No holes, no Holocaust!" Their beliefs are non-falsifiable.

I gave you a template: Katyn Forest. But you choose to ignore it.

 

[FineWine]

Notice how carefully the evil Holocaust-denier steps around the elephant in the parlor. Adolf Eichmann, on trial for his life, never thought to deny the reality that formed the basis for the charges against him.