Atheists, what is your attitude on suicide, murder?

yrreg said:
Well, that is your idea but why should anyone give any attention to your idea?​



As the Romans tell us of old, "Quot capita tot sententiae."*
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Firstly, it is not my idea. It is what the evidence points to.

Secondly, I really don't care what others believe. You asked me why I believe human beings don't go around killing each other. I provided my answer to the question. I don't care whether you agree with it or not. Whatever floats your boat.

Thirdly, chimpanzees (and other animals) also show altruistic traits for the reason I provided and for other evolutionary reasons that I can go into if you are interested. Tell me this, yrreg, when a chimpanzee has been in a fight, why do other chimpanzees go over and console it by putting an arm around it or rubbing its back. Chimpanzees are unaware of God. Why should they care that another chimpanzee has been hurt? Why should chimpanzees exhibit empathy? How does this fit in with your in-depth knowledge of the universe?


yrreg said:
Why should your idea be of any greater worth than another one's of the what, 6.769+ billions of humanity at his very point in time? [ 070809 Wed., 7:15 p.m., my local time eight hours in advance of Greenwich. ]


Click this link: http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html
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Because, my answer is based on evidence, while the answer of many of your 6.769+ billion is based on superstition and a collection of books written thousands of years ago. The power of indoctrination.

Speaking of superstition, indoctrination and social norms, you may want to do some reading on memetic evolution.

Altruism and empathy - source: genetic evolution
Religion and superstition - source: memetic evolution

Genetic evolution preceded memetic evolution.


yrreg said:
Think again, figure out a more or better the last ultimate ground why you can see suicide and murder to be wrong.
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I have given you my answer. The answer was not "God". Tough luck.
 
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I provided a detailed reason (as detailed as it could be with word count limits imposed by you) why I believe our tendency to be nice to each other ultimately came from the natural selection of altruism and empathy in our evolutionary history. Even though I'm not quite happy with my answer (because it takes much more than 200 words to describe), it gives the general idea.

Your answer to the same question is:

yrreg said:
...I know where I come from in the ultimate terms...

...You don't know and you profess to be in invincible ignorance...

...That includes also science...
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No evidence, no detail, no theory whatsoever. You just say "I know". Provide something for us to sink our teeth into. Give us how's and why's. Simply saying "I know" just highlights the fact that you don't.
 
If this follows the typical yrreG pattern:

1. yrreG has it handed to him
2. yrreG realizes it long after everyone else does
3. yrreG turns tail and flees the thread
4. yrreG licks his wounds and goes into hibernation mode
5. yrreG starts a new thread and never mentions this one again
6. yrreG eventually convinces himself that he won against the evil atheists
 
yrreg said:
You ask:

Why do you talk about yourself as someone who can see the greater picture of the universe?
​


Because I know where I come from in the ultimate terms, aside from my parents and ancestors, and also everything that exists in any manner at any time even outside time and space, I know where they come from if they come from anything or any entity like in a way ourselves: conscious intelligent free agent.


You don't know and you profess to be in invincible ignorance, that is why you cannot be possessed of the capability itself of seeing the bigger and the biggest picture of humanity and everything in the universe of existence which includes anything at all which exists in any manner, in any dimensions of whatever time and space and whatever circumstance of existence which circumstance itself also is into existence, as also the laws of mathematics or the principles of mathematics by which math experts do their mathematics of however low and however high and abstract their mathematics.


That includes also science.


No need for me to read any further the posts here.

Unless you have written something about where you come from, it is useless for you to talk about what I care to read about, what is the most last ultimate ground why suicide is wrong or not wrong, and also murder.

I will give you a hint, the last ultimate ground of why suicide is wrong or not wrong as also murder transcends whatever consideration that in your thinking comes from you, your life and its essentials and incidentals and accidentals, or in one word or two words, your existence.




In case you have written something about where you come from as the ultimate ground for why suicide and murder is wrong or not wrong, please just pm me, and I will bring your pm to this public board and discuss it with you.






Yrreg
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322 words
 
Yrreg said:
Unless you have written something about where you come from, it is useless for you to talk about what I care to read about, what is the most last ultimate ground why suicide is wrong or not wrong, and also murder.

I will give you a hint, the last ultimate ground of why suicide is wrong or not wrong as also murder transcends whatever consideration that in your thinking comes from you, your life and its essentials and incidentals and accidentals, or in one word or two words, your existence.

In case you have written something about where you come from as the ultimate ground for why suicide and murder is wrong or not wrong, please just pm me, and I will bring your pm to this public board and discuss it with you.
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And there we have it. I posited three questions which form the basis of every one of Yrreg's threads since November 2008.

Where do we come from: Yrreg's answer is God
What is God: Yrreg's answer is God is the maker of everything
Why are you angry at God: because you are stupid/dishonest/hedonistic

Every single disingenuous op is an attempt to lead us into to conceding these "truths". Yrreg "knows" they are true and "knows" we "know" they are true. I have said before that he imagines he is Socrates and that he can lead us to admit these "truths" by the question and answer method. It does not work but he persists.

In this post he makes his purpose and methodology absolutely clear. The thread was supposed to go like this:

Yrreg: what is your attitude on murder/suicide?
Atheists: we are against them
Yrreg: Why are you against them?
Atheists: Because if we do them there will be bad consequences for us
Yrreg: So if there were no bad consequences you would go ahead?
Atheists: No
Yrreg: Why not?
Atheists: Because it would make us feel bad
Yrreg: So if it did not make you feel bad you would go ahead?
Atheists: No.
Yrreg: Why not?
Atheists: We have no idea actually (uneasy now)
Yrreg: But you have a strong feeling it is wrong?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: There is no rational reason for that feeling is there?
Atheists: No, No, there isn't
Yrreg: But it is shared by all sane human beings?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: And there is no logical or scientific basis for it?
Atheists: No there isn't
Yrreg: So science and reason cannot account for it?
Atheists: No, they can't
Yrreg: So science cannot help us account for the way we are?
Atheists: Not in this area, no
Yrreg: But science can deal with everything material
Atheist: Yes
Yrreg: So this must come from something which is not material?
Atheists: We suppose so
Yrreg: And if it is in everyone it must be part of how we are made?
Atheists: Well yes
Yrreg: And it comes from something immaterial?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: So something immaterial must have made us?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: And it imbued us with those feelings ?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: So it possessed those feelings/values itself
Atheist: Must have
Yrreg: So we were made by an immaterial entity which itself holds that murder is wrong.?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: The same logic applies to other moral values?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: so this entity has all the moral values which are shared by all sane humans
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: That entity is called God
Atheists: Ok
Yrreg: We have established that we have a maker
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: We are the pinnacle of creation because we can think and reason and all that
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: If god made us he could make all the lesser things?
Atheists: He could yes
Yrreg: And you prefer explanations with fewer element not more?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: We do not need to posit any more gods or mechanisms?
Atheists: No we don't
Yrreg: So God is the maker of everything and he holds the moral values described in the bible.

QED

It is such a nice hypothetical conversation: destroyed by some ugly little facts :(

(loads of words :th:)
 
yrreg said:
<snip>
You don't know and you profess to be in invincible ignorance,
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Wow, who professed THIS? I can't find anyone who said, "My ignorance is invincible! Bow down before it, you knowledgeable worms!"
 
Fiona said:
In this post he makes his purpose and methodology absolutely clear. The thread was supposed to go like this:

Yrreg: what is your attitude on murder/suicide?
Atheists: we are against them
Yrreg: Why are you against them?
Atheists: Because if we do them there will be bad consequences for us
Yrreg: So if there were no bad consequences you would go ahead?
Atheists: No
Yrreg: Why not?
Atheists: Because it would make us feel bad
Yrreg: So if it did not make you feel bad you would go ahead?
Atheists: No.
Yrreg: Why not?
Atheists: We have no idea actually (uneasy now)
Yrreg: But you have a strong feeling it is wrong?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: There is no rational reason for that feeling is there?
Atheists: No, No, there isn't
Yrreg: But it is shared by all sane human beings?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: And there is no logical or scientific basis for it?
Atheists: No there isn't
Yrreg: So science and reason cannot account for it?
Atheists: No, they can't
Yrreg: So science cannot help us account for the way we are?
Atheists: Not in this area, no
Yrreg: But science can deal with everything material
Atheist: Yes
Yrreg: So this must come from something which is not material?
Atheists: We suppose so
Yrreg: And if it is in everyone it must be part of how we are made?
Atheists: Well yes
Yrreg: And it comes from something immaterial?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: So something immaterial must have made us?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: And it imbued us with those feelings ?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: So it possessed those feelings/values itself
Atheist: Must have
Yrreg: So we were made by an immaterial entity which itself holds that murder is wrong.?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: The same logic applies to other moral values?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: so this entity has all the moral values which are shared by all sane humans
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: That entity is called God
Atheists: Ok
Yrreg: We have established that we have a maker
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: We are the pinnacle of creation because we can think and reason and all that
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: If god made us he could make all the lesser things?
Atheists: He could yes
Yrreg: And you prefer explanations with fewer element not more?
Atheists: Yes
Yrreg: We do not need to posit any more gods or mechanisms?
Atheists: No we don't
Yrreg: So God is the maker of everything and he holds the moral values described in the bible.

QED
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And this is how it actually went:

Yrreg: what is your attitude on murder/suicide?
Atheists: we are against them
Yrreg: Why are you against them?
Atheists: Because we have evolved to be empathetic to other members of our species. It increased our chances of survival and was, therefore, favoured by natural selection.
Yrreg: Um... I know there is a God. You're stupid.
 
Robert Oz said:
And this is how it actually went:

Yrreg: what is your attitude on murder/suicide?
Atheists: we are against them
Yrreg: Why are you against them?
Atheists: Because we have evolve to be empathetic to other members of our species. It increased our chances of survival and was, therefore, favoured by natural selection.
Yrreg: Um... I know there is a God. You're stupid.
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Yep!
 
yrreg said:
May I repeat:

Leave God out of this thread at this point, just tell me why you feel bad to murder.​


If an atheist does not feel bad or fear that in murdering anyone he might meet someone like himself who will murder him without any infinitesimally exiguous qualms of bad feeling, is that why you atheists don't do murder in the hope that other atheists will not also do you in by murdering you successfully, i.e, you die and he does not get caught by any individual humans nor by any human system of justice?





Yrreg
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Are you serious? Have you not been reading the posts? Many people answered your question without even having to bring up any gods.

To everyone reading this...I know I'm responding to an older post and have not yet read further, but I had to respond to this one.

Also, Yrreg, I find all your questions suspicious.
 
freebird said:
Are you serious? Have you not been reading the posts? Many people answered your question without even having to bring up any gods.
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That doesn't include me. Bill S Preston and Ted Theodore Logan are gods in my book.

The fact they are fictional characters doesn't matter. It never stopped Yahweh...
 
freebird said:
Are you serious? Have you not been reading the posts? Many people answered your question without even having to bring up any gods.

To everyone reading this...I know I'm responding to an older post and have not yet read further, but I had to respond to this one.

Also, Yrreg, I find all your questions suspicious.
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Freebird, allow me to introduce gerry.
Gerry, this is Freebird.
Enjoy.
 
freebird said:
Are you serious? Have you not been reading the posts? Many people answered your question without even having to bring up any gods.
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You'll find yrreg threads are like the Police Academy movies: always silly, at times frustratingly boring, but occasionally hilarious.
 
"No need for me to read any further the posts here."
Correct, for once. There is not only no need, there is no use. You have demonstrated that you are incapable of "learning", which is defined as a change in behavior as a function of experience.
Good bye.
 
Why do you continue with the arrogance Gerry?

Would you prefer us to speak to you with the same arrogant attitude ?


yrreg said:
You don't know and you profess to be in invincible ignorance, that is why you cannot be possessed of the capability itself of seeing the bigger and the biggest picture of humanity and everything in the universe of existence which includes anything at all which exists in any manner, in any dimensions of whatever time and space and whatever circumstance of existence which circumstance itself also is into existence, as also the laws of mathematics or the principles of mathematics by which math experts do their mathematics of however low and however high and abstract their mathematics.
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No need for me to read any further the posts here.
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It's not like you have read very many posts in the past.:rolleyes:
 
Fiona said:
That is a very good start: you have a great future in Yrreg threads.

Welcome to the forum :D
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Thank you. I look forward to all the reading, but me thinks I'll need a very large bottle of aspirin to deal with Gerry.
 
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