Deeper than primes

[jsfisher]

...memory\ bla bla ... fundamental form...

This is too funny. Organic Mathematics has evolved to the memory\bla bla bla interaction stage. Doron, you should be very proud.

 

[jsfisher]

Yes, here it is:

One of the first disciplines that can use direct perception as a fruitful method is Quantum Mechanics, because Non-locality, Locality and Observation are used as main principles of this science. In that case n-Uncertainty x n-Redundancy tree can be found as a very useful tool.

Ok, so go ahead. Please give a worked example of just that.

*bump*

 

[doronshadmi]

This is too funny. Organic Mathematics has evolved to the memory\bla bla bla interaction stage. Doron, you should be very proud.

It is there from day one.

You simply do not get the content of http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/OMDP.pdf .

 

[MosheKlein]

http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/OMDP.pdf is a further development of http://books.google.com/books?id=ja...5KGvBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2 Charles Sanders Peirce's ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Sanders_Peirce ) potential "welded" points along the real-line.

In 1908 Charles Sanders Peirce gave up on that particular conception of continua (based on potential "welded" points along the real-line) without knowing that it will return as a superposition of elements' identities.

Dear Doron,

It was great to meet you in Einstein coffee at Tel-Aviv !
I think that we made with A. one more step in OMI.

I have read the biography of C.S.Peirce thank you !
I never heard about him before.
His amassing work is very good background for OM.


Yours
Moshe

 

[MosheKlein]

Doronshadmi, you are a miserable host. You invite your dearest friend, Mosheklein, to these forums then you don't give him a change to speak.

Hush now. You have nothing new to say. You haven't had anything new to say in quite a while. Just the same old recycled copy/paste nonsense that even you don't understand (by your own admission, no less).

Jsfisher,

From the traditional view of set theory you are right about the union of the elements of the set. But when you will understand one day ( I really hope !) the concept of non locality then it change set theory completely and the union of the element of a set is the set it self. It is very simple as it sound.

Moshe

 

[MosheKlein]

So are you simply unable or unwilling to answer such a simple question?



I’m sorry that you feel it is incumbent on anyone else to go looking for an answer just because you ‘think’ it may be there. As apposed to simply answering a direct question asked of you.




Wow, talk about arrogance and hubris, you seem to have a very limited field of ‘interest’.

Man,

when you will come one day ( I really hope !) to a parallel observation on the universe then you will see that order is mining lees - This may be an answer your question - I think.

OM preset the possibility of the entire universe to became aware to it self
So what are your hobbies ...

Moshe

 

[MosheKlein]

To MosheKlein:

Since you may have missed it, doronshadmi claims that my thoughts will be full of "peace-love-understanding" by using OM, and can't give any example to us.

Can you provide us with a real example of OM usage?

oh it is very simple.

Have you heard about the language vision of Leibniz.

The invitation to the presentation in Sweden come directly because there was a war in Israel few month ago ( I can explain it to you only in a private e-mail) so you can do now the 1+1


Best
Moshe

 

[MosheKlein]

Dear Guys,

I think that 6 people who work together with OM can create a much better world. Are you going to argue with Doron again and again.Maybe we can start to work together with specific mission.
We the Jews call it NAASE VENISMA ( First do and only then hear/understand ..)
To be honest with you, after one week here I really begin to be born in this forum.

Sorry
Moshe

 

[doronshadmi]

To MosheKlein:

Since you may have missed it, doronshadmi claims that my thoughts will be full of "peace-love-understanding" by using OM, and can't give any example to us.

Can you provide us with a real example of OM usage?

Little 10 Toes,

Each living creature (man or not) is in one hand a special phenomenon and on the other hand shares a common environment with other living creatures.

OM's aim is to find the simplest principle that enables living creatures to communicate with each other in such ways that reduce as much as possible destructive results of possible interactions.

Destructive, according to OM, is any interaction that harms the linkage between Complexity and Simplicity. We can understand Complexity\Simplicity linkage in terms of Energy's waste.

From this fundamental point of view we can say that a non-destructive interaction is any interaction that increases diversity (abstract or not) by using less energy.

By OM, increasing diversity (abstract or not) by using less energy (or in other words, better Complexity\Simplicity day-by-day actual results) is the fundamental condition that can be used as a common state for, so called, different concepts like Ethics and Logics\Technology (In this case the concept of Technology is extended beyond physical tools' developments, and includes also abstract tools (technologies of the mind) that improve Complexity\Simplicity day-by-day actual results)).

It must be stressed that Complexity\Simplicity day-by-day actual results are achieved only if there is agreement (a smooth communication) between living creatures, which is not limited by the differences between them.

This kind of agreement enables better communication between specials, no matter what Complex abilities (abstract or not) any phenomenon has (the phenomenon can be a single virus or the entire human spices, it does not matter).

In order to get a long term agreement (as described briefly above), the simplest terms that enable Complexity development must be found.

I have found that this long term agreement is based on amazingly simple (yet enables profound Complexity development) principle, which is based on the association between two building-blocks, which are Non-locality and Locality.

The simplest representation of Locality is a 0-dim element.

The simplest representation of Non-locality is a 1-dim element.

___\. associations' results (introduced at least as n-Uncertainty x n-Redundancy tree) provide an agreement that is not limited to any particular Complexity\Simplicity day-by-day actual results like Biological phenomena, Culture, Ethics, Politics, Religion, Sciences (exact or nor), Education, Economy, Engineering or any Scholars agreement that is based only on verbal definitions (verbal-only definitions are no more than subjective manipulations between a group of complex creatures, and defiantly cannot be used as long term agreement. Furthermore, if this group of complex creatures insists that verbal-only definitions is the one and only one way to be developed, then they miss the simple ___\. linkage, which actually stands at the basis of any verbal-only agreement, where the simple ___\. linkage can be understood only by direct perception, and this is exactly the reason of why ___\. linkage is really an objective long term agreement (it does not need any bla bla bla ... agreement in order to be immediately understood and naturally used by a single virus or the entire human species)).

__\. associations' game (introduced at least as n-Uncertainty x n-Redundancy tree) is exactly the agreement where Complexity\Simplicity day-by-day actual results air their view.

 

[MosheKlein]

OM in Kindergarden !

Dear Doron,

Thank you for your excellent view on OM
I agree with it
I will call you later to discuss it with you
.
Please have a look on the following paper

http://web.media.mit.edu/~mres/papers/CC2007-handout.pdf

OM can be develop today in the area of kindergarten
with the abstract Lego game of ____ / .


yours
Moshe

 

[jsfisher]

Jsfisher,

From the traditional view of set theory you are right about the union of the elements of the set. But when you will understand one day ( I really hope !) the concept of non locality then it change set theory completely and the union of the element of a set is the set it self. It is very simple as it sound.

Ok, great! You and Doronshadmi both reject Set Theory. Doronshadmi is unconstrained by conventional logic, too, so I imagine you two have some corrected Organic Logic in the wings, too, then, right?

So, how does Organic Set Theory work?

The questions is rather important, since Set Theory is as the basis of so much of your hidden assumptions. Numbers, for example. If you lay Set Theory in ruin, all of Arithmetic crumbles with it. Too bad for Organic Numbers. Too bad for Organic Mathematics. All gone now since it just lost its basis.

 

[MosheKlein]

Ok, great! You and Doronshadmi both reject Set Theory. Doronshadmi is unconstrained by conventional logic, too, so I imagine you two have some corrected Organic Logic in the wings, too, then, right?

So, how does Organic Set Theory work?

The questions is rather important, since Set Theory is as the basis of so much of your hidden assumptions. Numbers, for example. If you lay Set Theory in ruin, all of Arithmetic crumbles with it. Too bad for Organic Numbers. Too bad for Organic Mathematics. All gone now since it just lost its basis.

If you really want to learned
what is organic set theory
then please tell me why you run so fast
to the final conclusion of your post ?



OM fulfill the dream of Leibniz :

http://www.educ.fc.ul.pt/hyper/resources/opombo-valencia.pdf

 

[sympathic]

Dear Doron,

Thank you for your excellent view on OM
I agree with it
I will call you later to discuss it with you
.
Please have a look on the following paper

http://web.media.mit.edu/~mres/papers/CC2007-handout.pdf

OM can be develop today in the area of kindergarten
with the abstract Lego game of ____ / .


yours
Moshe

I think proper communication skills are far more important for creating a peaceful atmosphere among human beings. In fact I think you should start by teaching English in your kindergarten. It is far more fundamental than OM.

 

[zooterkin]

.
Please have a look on the following paper

http://web.media.mit.edu/~mres/papers/CC2007-handout.pdf

Very interesting, but what does it have to do with OM?

OM can be develop today in the area of kindergarten
with the abstract Lego game of ____ / .

Go on then, please give details of how this would work.

 

[jsfisher]

If you really want to learned
what is organic set theory
then please tell me why you run so fast
to the final conclusion of your post ?

There was nothing extraordinarily fast about it. You reject a fundamental principle of Set Theory (namely union), and in so doing you reject Set Theory. Since Set Theory is at the very foundation of much of Mathematics, if you remove Set Theory (as you have done), you also remove everything built from that Set Theory foundation.

That was not a hasty conclusion. That is merely the simple and obvious consequence of your views.

Meanwhile, you have this organic numbers notion. It is built from ordinary numbers and arithmetic properties. However, since the numbers and Arithmetic are built on, guess what, Set Theory, your organic numbers lay in the same ruins as Set Theory.

That was also not a hasty conclusion. This is also merely the simple and obvious consequence of your views.

 

[The Man]

Man,

when you will come one day ( I really hope !) to a parallel observation on the universe then you will see that order is mining lees - This may be an answer your question - I think.

No again it dose not answer my question, you had said previously that ordering distinctions are significant in serial observation and not in parallel and I see no problems in that association. However this does not answer the question as to why ordering distinctions and significant serial observations are excluded. Particularly in a “framework” claimed to be focused on distinction. If you do not know why or it is simply something arbitral ascribed by Doron, then just say so. You seem to want me to assume why they are excluded as opposed to directly saying either why, that you simply do not know or that it is just what Doron wanted. If you insist that I assume what you will not directly say, then the only thing that I will assume is that you simply don’t know what you are talking about.

OM preset the possibility of the entire universe to became aware to it self

OK now you’re making that last assumption look like the correct one.

Why would the “universe” require OM “to became aware to it self”?

How do you know the “universe” is ready “to became aware to it self”?

Do you have any way of determining if the universe is currently “aware to it self”, if it has always been “aware to it self”, if it needs OM to be “aware to it self”, if it even can be “aware to it self” or is “OM preset the possibility of the entire universe to became aware to it self” just some grandiose, esoteric, spiritual and essentially meaningless thing to say to make OM sound ‘universally’ significant?

So what are your hobbies ...

Moshe

Riding my motorcycle, playing the bagpipes, movies, music and theoretical physics, oh and discussing issues on this forum. Why do you ask?

 

[The Man]

Little 10 Toes,

Each living creature (man or not) is in one hand a special phenomenon and on the other hand shares a common environment with other living creatures.

OM's aim is to find the simplest principle that enables living creatures to communicate with each other in such ways that reduce as much as possible destructive results of possible interactions.

Dr. Doolittle is it now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Doolittle

Destructive, according to OM, is any interaction that harms the linkage between Complexity and Simplicity. We can understand Complexity\Simplicity linkage in terms of Energy's waste.

So OM is just a waste of energy, got it.

From this fundamental point of view we can say that a non-destructive interaction is any interaction that increases diversity (abstract or not) by using less energy.

So you just don’t understand the relationship between energy and entropy, how surprising.

By OM, increasing diversity (abstract or not) by using less energy (or in other words, better Complexity\Simplicity day-by-day actual results) is the fundamental condition that can be used as a common state for, so called, different concepts like Ethics and Logics\Technology (In this case the concept of Technology is extended beyond physical tools' developments, and includes also abstract tools (technologies of the mind) that improve Complexity\Simplicity day-by-day actual results)).

Well seeing as how technology already specifically involves the use of knowledge and tools and particularly usage of knowledge of tools and crafts, OM is not needed in this regard.

It must be stressed that Complexity\Simplicity day-by-day actual results are achieved only if there is agreement (a smooth communication) between living creatures, which is not limited by the differences between them.

So you are increasing diversity by “agreement” which actually reduces diversity. OK so now “diversity” is something that you simply do not understand, again how surprising.

This kind of agreement enables better communication between specials, no matter what Complex abilities (abstract or not) any phenomenon has (the phenomenon can be a single virus or the entire human spices, it does not matter).

OK know we can add “phenomenon” to the list of things you simply do not understand.

In order to get a long term agreement (as described briefly above), the simplest terms that enable Complexity development must be found.

I have found that this long term agreement is based on amazingly simple (yet enables profound Complexity development) principle, which is based on the association between two building-blocks, which are Non-locality and Locality.

The simplest representation of Locality is a 0-dim element.

The simplest representation of Non-locality is a 1-dim element.

Doron you have not demonstrated any “long term agreement” with yourself on those references.

___\. associations' results (introduced at least as n-Uncertainty x n-Redundancy tree) provide an agreement that is not limited to any particular Complexity\Simplicity day-by-day actual results like Biological phenomena, Culture, Ethics, Politics, Religion, Sciences (exact or nor), Education, Economy, Engineering or any Scholars agreement that is based only on verbal definitions (verbal-only definitions are no more than subjective manipulations between a group of complex creatures, and defiantly cannot be used as long term agreement. Furthermore, if this group of complex creatures insists that verbal-only definitions is the one and only one way to be developed, then they miss the simple ___\. linkage, which actually stands at the basis of any verbal-only agreement, where the simple ___\. linkage can be understood only by direct perception, and this is exactly the reason of why ___\. linkage is really an objective long term agreement (it does not need any bla bla bla ... agreement in order to be immediately understood and naturally used by a single virus or the entire human species)).

__\. associations' game (introduced at least as n-Uncertainty x n-Redundancy tree) is exactly the agreement where Complexity\Simplicity day-by-day actual results air their view.

OK so now, again, we have direct perception (a subjective experience) stated as the only way’ to ‘understand’ an “objective long term agreement” which is of course still subjective in that it is an “agreement”. So we can add subjective and objective to that previous list.

Doron “verbal-only” or written “definitions” are “used as long term agreement” and has resulted in just about every advancement attributable to the “entire human species”

You be sure to let us know when some virus agrees to your OM and “objective long term agreement” such that it is “immediately understood and naturally used” in your “direct perception”.

 

[Little 10 Toes]

oh it is very simple.

Have you heard about the language vision of Leibniz.

The invitation to the presentation in Sweden come directly because there was a war in Israel few month ago ( I can explain it to you only in a private e-mail) so you can do now the 1+1


Best
Moshe

I have never heard of the "language vision of Leibniz". Looking over one of the links you provided to another member, it appears it might be talking about encyclopedias (non-UK English spelling). Concerning about the war in this thread, I don't care.

Please provide an example of how an average citizen would use OM.

 

[doronshadmi]

Doron “verbal-only” or written “definitions” are “used as long term agreement” and has resulted in just about every advancement attributable to the “entire human species”

You be sure to let us know when some virus agrees to your OM and “objective long term agreement” such that it is “immediately understood and naturally used” in your “direct perception”.

Very "intersting" The Man.

Indeed let us know when some virus will have a long term agreement with you, which is based on your bla bla bla ... verbal-only agreement.

It is quite obvious to see a complex system (called The Man) contradicts its own bla bla bla ... verbal-only understanding, exactly because the depth of his notions is limited to bla bla bla ... verbal-only notions (he can't grasp the fact that his verbal-only method is actually based on __\., which can be known only immediately and only by direct perception).

The line is made of tiny tiny elements, isn't it "point dragger" The Man?

However this does not answer the question as to why ordering distinctions and significant serial observations are excluded. Particularly in a “framework” claimed to be focused on distinction.

It is excluded only in your fantasy, which its depth is limited to verbal-only notions.

The Man, no direct percaption, no OM's understanding.

Simple as that.

 

[Little 10 Toes]

Doronshadmi, perhaps you missed the first part of my post where I directed my post to MosheKlein, and not you? First word, "To"; second word, "MosheKlein".

But let's continue:

Little 10 Toes,

Each living creature (man or not) is in one hand a special phenomenon and on the other hand shares a common environment with other living creatures.

Really now? Last time I checked, I can't extract oxygen from my gills, nor extract water from the ground from my roots. I have tolerences to heat, cold, and pressure.

OM's aim is to find the simplest principle that enables living creatures to communicate with each other in such ways that reduce as much as possible destructive results of possible interactions.

Please show how a domesticated cat uses OM. Please show how a plant uses OM. Please show how cancer uses OM. Your claim, you provide proof.

Open to anyone's responce:

Has doronshamdi defined: Complexity, Simplicity, Energy, Uncertainty, Redundancy