29 Structural & Civil Engineers Cite Evidence for Controlled Explosive Demolition

[Baylor]

So Chris Sarns thinks you can tell if someone is an engineer by looking at his hand?

 

[funk de fino]

NCSTAR 1A 1-A pg 45
In Stage 2, the north face descended at gravitational acceleration, as the buckled columns provided negligible support to the upper portion of the north face. This free fall drop continued for approximately 8 stories or 32.0 m (105 ft), the distance traveled between times t = 1.75 s and t = 4.0 s.

Was this after the penthouse collapsed and destroyed parts of the interior?

It is a pointless diversion that I will not discuss further.

Hypocrite much? You were happy to discuss it when denigrating members here. What is your qualification C7?

 

[tuc0]

There is no hard data but someone did the math using the show of hands at a number of presentations. Over 80% of the people who believed the OCT or were unsure at the beginning did not believe the OCT at the end. You can believe that or not. I don't care. Come to a presentation and see for yourself.

I believe you. Why wouldn't I? You have no bias, your chain of evidence is impeccable, your reasoning valid and your conclusions usually reasonable.

I live in Bizarro World.

 

[Heiwa]

NCSTAR 1A 1-A pg 45
In Stage 2, the north face descended at gravitational acceleration, as the buckled columns provided negligible support to the upper portion of the north face. This free fall drop continued for approximately 8 stories or 32.0 m (105 ft), the distance traveled between times t = 1.75 s and t = 4.0 s.

As one of the 29 I have described the WTC 7 destruction at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/nist7.htm.

NIST acknowledges that the upper part free falls for a certain time - say 2.25 seconds - i.e. there are no internal forces acting between or on the elements of the upper part. All upper part elements/loads free fall = no forces on or between the elements.

At the same time NIST suggests that the upper part - free falling - is falling apart!!

NIST says that they do FEM analysis of the free falling structure!! Well - it is very easy! There are no forces acting on the elements then = all stresses in the elements are ZERO = nothing will happen to the structure during free fall. It just drops as seen on all videos.

The big drama happens when the upper part (floors 13-42) impacts the bottom part (floors 1-6) - floors 7-12 have gone missing allowing free fall.

NIST misses that completely.

 

[Darat]

Cut the incivility or the thread will probably be closed.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[GlennB]

NCSTAR 1A 1-A pg 45
In Stage 2, the north face descended at gravitational acceleration, as the buckled columns provided negligible support to the upper portion of the north face. This free fall drop continued for approximately 8 stories or 32.0 m (105 ft), the distance traveled between times t = 1.75 s and t = 4.0 s.

Chris - when you quote figures from a report you have a duty to represent that quote fairly.

NIST said ".. the north face descended ...."
They did not say "... WTC7 descended ..."

The point being that we already know that the E Penthouse fell into the building several seconds before apparent global collapse. The NIST passage you quoted reflects this, whereas your use elsewhere of the figures does not.

It was exactly the same story when "truthers" used NIST figures for WTC collapse times, carelessly (or carefully?) neglecting to mention that those timings were for the first debris to hit the ground, not the main collapse zone.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

In fact, let's turn this around. If Chris believes (as he appears to) that any structural engineer can understand the issue then how does he square the silence of many, many, many thousands worldwide? Especially when the results of the NIST study were so widely circulated?

Not just silence. As you've pointed out to us in the past, the NIST findings have served as the underpinnings for code upgrades worldwide. That rises to the level of active acceptance in my book; anyone who designs with the relevant codes in mind is utilizing the knowledge NIST generated.

 

[Architect]

Cut the incivility or the thread will probably be closed.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

TBH I think it's going nowhere fast anyway. Maybe best to put it out its misery.....

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Yeah, Architect's right. This is nothing more than a blatant appeal to authority, one that's already been dealt with in the past in this forum. I don't think anyone's going to cry if the thread gets closed.

 

[Seymour Butz]

He will being going back on ignore once he proves his claim that the majority of engineers and architects who listen to Gage believe him.

Come on Chris how many?

Selection bias.

Who would go to gage's crap in the first place?

Those that are already CT minded and/or want to sign their name to anything that will "get back" at Bush for his "war crimes".

It doesn't matter what happens at his lectures.

What matters is what happens in the general SE population.

And they have spoken loudly by being uninterested in his tripe.

 

[Yaters]

The funny thing is, I am always interested in conspiracy theories. I come to this forum because it is filled with great knowledge and interesting information. I'm a pretty open minded person and am willing to look at anything from all angles. The fact is, the Truth Movement has never once made me do a double take. Not once. And people like Galileo just make me laugh. Like I said, I assume it's all an act for him just for laughs and good times.

If it's not, Galileo, you'll continue to only cater to those are already believe. Nobody's mind will be changed with the way you present yourself. I'm sure you don't care, just my two cents.

 

[beachnut]

Nothing can be assumed one way or the other as to the thinking of those who have not spoken out, however, the majority of architects and engineers who hear Richard Gage's presentation agree with him when he has finished.

Prove it. Attendance records vs who was dumb enough to sigh Gage's petition for those with terminally stupid conclusions on 911.

There are a few fringe engineers and architects who believe Gage's nut case moronic ideas on 911.

Please prove your statement with evidence; I assume it is your standard talk supported by your standard moronic delusions. No evidence is coming, is it?

These 29 people with failed ideas on 911 are not qualified to discuss the failure modes of the WTC towers and they all have to ignore WTC7 penthouse falling first and making the total free fall time for WTC7 at over 15 seconds as the interior failed first. The moronic lies and conclusions melt in the light of reality.


Your 29 x-perts are deousnoal. Most of them entire reseach efforts are based on their failed opinions formed without study or calculaionts. They just talk! Pure talk of stupid ideas. EXAMPLE:

Kamal S. Obeid, structural engineer, with a masters degree in Engineering from UC Berkeley, of Fremont, California, says: "Photos of the steel, evidence about how the buildings collapsed, the unexplainable collapse of WTC 7, evidence of thermite in the debris as well as several other red flags, are quite troubling indications of well planned and controlled demolition"

This guy just says it is so. He never studied the structure of WTC7 or the WTC towers. He waves his hands and pronouces it had to be a contorlled demoltion. He did not listen to the zero sounds of explosives. He never did any resreach past his own fialed opinions.

29 people who are wrong on 911. And you say a majority of engineers who hear Gage sign up? Wrong I have heard Gage and his ideas are the dumbest on 911. I am an Engineer, and all the Engineers I know do not agree with Gage. So you are wrong again. Too bad you are not an engineer or somebody who can get out and ask engineers about this issue. But that would burst your bubble on moronic conclusions and your conspiracy theory world on 911 would end. Can't do any work and let that happen.

 

[Christopher7]

Chris - when you quote figures from a report you have a duty to represent that quote fairly.

NIST said ".. the north face descended ...."
They did not say "... WTC7 descended ..."

Typical denial word games. WTC 7 fell at free fall acceleration. The videos are the proof of this.

The point being that we already know that the E Penthouse fell into the building several seconds before apparent global collapse.

So what?

The NIST passage you quoted reflects this, whereas your use elsewhere of the figures does not.

You define building as any part of the building in an attempt to obfuscate the fact that WTC 7 fell at free fall acceleration. You are fooling no one but the deniers club.

 

[HyJinX]

Chris, I believe you to have reading comprehension issues.

 

[twinstead]

You define building as any part of the building in an attempt to obfuscate the fact that WTC 7 fell at free fall acceleration.

What the hell does this even mean? The building started to collapse when parts of it started to collapse.

 

[Heiwa]

... we already know that the E Penthouse fell into the building several seconds before apparent global collapse ...

Don't you mean visible global destruction?

NIST suggests that the whole WTC 7 just relied on one, single internal column #79 (there are 24!) between two floors. By removing (by fire failure) that single support NIST suggests that the whole thing globally collapses, incl. the penthouse. No redundancy at all! Top part free falls for 2.25 seconds, etc.

We serious structural engineers have asked NIST for a copy of its FEM analysis of this strange structure and its destruction and the relevant path of failures. NIST has advised that it does not exist. They just invented the whole thing. Kayser, Sunder, Gross & Co at NIST have never done a proper structural damage analysis in their lives.

 

[Christopher7]

These 29 people with failed ideas on 911 are not qualified to discuss the failure modes of the WTC towers

On the contrary, these people are qualified to understand that the Trade Towers and WTC 7 could not have collapsed the way they did without explosives.

they all have to ignore WTC7 penthouse falling first and making the total free fall time for WTC7 at over 15 seconds as the interior failed first.

Your adding the fall of the east penthouse to the free fall time clearly shows that you do not understand the concept of free fall or when it occurred. NIST admitted that WTC 7 fell at free fall acceleration. You have not the intelligence to understand this.

Kamal S. Obeid, structural engineer, with a masters degree in Engineering from UC Berkeley, of Fremont, California, says: "Photos of the steel, evidence about how the buildings collapsed, the unexplainable collapse of WTC 7, evidence of thermite in the debris as well as several other red flags, are quite troubling indications of well planned and controlled demolition"

This guy just says it is so. He never studied the structure of WTC7 or the WTC towers. He waves his hands and pronouces it had to be a contorlled demoltion. He did not listen to the zero sounds of explosives. He never did any resreach past his own fialed opinions.

You are laughable. Kamal Obeid is an expert in these matters and you are not. You are the one hand waving an expert and claiming to know more.

I am an Engineer, and all the Engineers I know do not agree with Gage.

I saw the "degree" you posted. You are not an engineer.
Please post the names of the engineers who don't agree with Richard Gage and why they don't agree.

Too bad you are not an engineer or somebody who can get out and ask engineers about this issue.

Actually, I have spoken to many structural engineers and architects about this. Most agree with Richard Gage. The few who don't, refuse to acknowledge or discuss the facts and cowardly hide behind the "conspiracy theory" mantra.

 

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

What the hell does this even mean? The building started to collapse when parts of it started to collapse.

This is going to end up being one of those interminable "the-FDR-isn't-even-a-part-of-the-airplane-anyway" dealies, isn't it...?

 

[Grizzly Bear]

This is going to end up being one of those interminable "the-FDR-isn't-even-a-part-of-the-airplane-anyway" dealies, isn't it...?

Except this time it'll be something like "the penthouse IS NOT part of the building."

 

[Christopher7]

What the hell does this even mean? The building started to collapse when parts of it started to collapse.

Yes dear, but the 'global' collapse is when the entire building is falling. The free fall acceleration has been documented and 'peer reviewed' by none other than NIST itself. Your inability to understand this simple fact has left you befuddled.