North Korea cancels truce

Yes I also agree. This is a personality cult gone way beyond even George's dire descriptions.

Beyond not so much. But the match that is pretty good. You've got the inner party who know the truth. The outer party where there is pretty strong cult of personality and the proles (mostly farmers in NK) who well as long as they don't rebel who cares what they think?

Kim Il-sung's title may be Eternal President of the Republic but a very good big brother analoge there.

The Emmanuel Goldstein figure would currently be Lee Myung-bak

Eternal war exists in properganda terms although it isn't used to use up excess production capacity.

Newspeak doen't really exist with shifts from korean as spoken in south korea being limited to a few things like place names.
 
Unlikely with all the puffing and strutting that they will really want to start a war...I agree w/BPSCG, the real danger from the North is in what they may be trying to peddle around the world.

While a war isn't impossible, here are some of the considerations:

Yes, they have a million man army. It is unclear, however, how good an army it is. Weaponry is likely to be old and untried.

Second, they have Stalin's problem. They put ground troops into the South, that million man army is going to find out first hand, even combing through ruins, that their government has lied to to them. It will be abundantly clear to any troops that get into the south that the standard of living there is far, far higher than in the north.

Next, it is like 40 or 50 million in the South to 20 million in the North.

The south and its allies have the more up to date weaponry.

The north doesn't have much in the way of a fuel reserve...they go south, they can't power their tanks, trucks, etc. for very long.

While they can launch missles, there is real question as to the quality and accuracy of their abilities. What they've been doing lately is for show. It is planned to a tee. They've got their best people on it, planning the launches, etc. for days, to make sure that nothing goes wrong (remember the long range missle back in December(?) crashed into the ocean, not what they wanted the world to see). The launching circumstances will be very different if they go south, for one thing, missles will be launched back on them.

They can't contest either the U.S. airforce or the Korean Air force.

China is no sure bet to support them this time, nor is Russia. China has to be worried about a growing, unchecked nuclear power to its south. Further, they are worried that an unchecked north could cause the Japanese to both re-arm and go nuclear. China wants to be the player in Asia, it is likely going to step up to this situation if, for no other reason, a massive new land war on the Korean penninsula will be bad for commerce and China's economic recovery.

Russia can't support or won't support the North like it did in the past. Why? Not because they're not sympathetic, but because Russia is now a more cash and carry economy. They likely will not be giving the north arms out of old friendship, especially as its trading relationship with the south has signifcantly expanded in recent years. Also, they too have to have concerns about a nuclear power and possible war on their far east border.

It seems to me that much of what is going on is internal. There is some sort of power struggle going on in the line-up to replace Kim. THe putative family heir is only in his early 20s, the military can't like the idea of him succeeding without more seasoning, at the same time, the military has proped up the Kim regime, help to make and keep it paramount in the country, it must be at something of a loss about what to do in a power vacume when there is no strong Kim family member immediately available.

They, of course, also could be completely bat-sh$t crazy, even suicidal. They could be itching for a war, collectively, if you will, having drunk the kim coolaide and thinking they can win it. I just don't see that as the case however, their intelligence about our side and the South is far better than ours is about them. They know that we could have nukes on the penninsula. They know that the weaponry is better. They know that the South's standard of living is higher...they may think that will make them soft, but the leadership has to fear that its soldiers will be exposed to the lie that is the regime.
 
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Maybe the best choice is to ask China to curb its dog?

That's the thing...China does what they can. They have repeatedly tried to get NK to stop doing this nuclear thing while at the same time trying to satisfy the international community. The only thing China can do is to withhold it's monetary aid...but since NK is so dependent on the aid, the country would collapse if withheld. Then, China and SK have to deal with refugees pouring into their own countries, causing their own chaos a la Rwanda and the surrouding African nations. So it's a bit misleading to call NK China's "dog", although it may look like that since China is their sole ally in the world.

China is in a very delicate position, you see.
 
That's the thing...China does what they can. They have repeatedly tried to get NK to stop doing this nuclear thing while at the same time trying to satisfy the international community. The only thing China can do is to withhold it's monetary aid...but since NK is so dependent on the aid, the country would collapse if withheld. Then, China and SK have to deal with refugees pouring into their own countries, causing their own chaos a la Rwanda and the surrouding African nations. So it's a bit misleading to call NK China's "dog", although it may look like that since China is their sole ally in the world.

China is in a very delicate position, you see.

I think this is all true, but the North also knows that while it can lead China around, it likely can't go to war if China is actively opposes it...and they certainly must oppose it today. War is bad for business.

The challenge here, it seems to me, is not to over react....
 
Doubtful. Their numbers are not that much greater than South Korea's, and they'd be fighting an offensive war against a well-trained and well-equipped enemy.
I will disagree with you here on the significance of any order of battle comparison.

Look at the map.

See where Seoul is. Count tube artillery.

MOdern war is a lot about the battle of the first salvo. NK has the luxury of the initiative. This is a non trivial concern.

NK has less to lose than SK. SK knows that. NK knows that. This is not a match of political equals, nor is there equality of aims.

DR
 
You know that experimental missile killing laser system we own? I hope somebody thinks to send it on...

Maybe it only has a small chance of working, but that is a small chance more than we had before...

Sorry, Ben, but I'd not put too much hope in that money sink.

It's an expensive silve bullet not worth, operationally, what it's advertised as.

The concept is appealing, sure, but you have some massive operational problems (not to mention physics, with dust and moisture) degrading the laser carrying aircraft, which is itself a sitting duck.

DR
 
My current thinking. Given that they have unilaterally cancelled the armistice, it requires no more action (in the sense of voting) at all on the part of the UN or the US government to resume hostilities.
I'd strike now.
That's not that bad of an idea, as I don't think Kim would expect that. Use surprise to your advantage.
A coordinated cruise missile strike into every RADAR, communications center, electrical generation facility, railroad junction, submarine base, and munitions dump in the North timed so that all weapons arrive on target in the same 5 minute window.
Ben, a strikle like that takes a bit of force, thus mobilization and repositining. Mobilization time is measured in weeks from "now" from above, which rather effs up surprise. Damnit all, Iraq still going on and Afghanistan being plussed up has been taken advantage of by Kim.

Or I miss my guess.
The submarine bases are vital because even if they cannot depend on their rockets yet, a nuke can be delivered into a harbor via submarine.
Aye.
Then I would back that up within minutes by carpet bombing the forces deployed on the other side of the DMZ with the goal of reducing them by 20-30% quickly, and disrupting their lines of communication and resupply.
No, carpet bombing is not the way to play this. Far more effective ways of using air power to smash such of their forces as are above ground.

Hint: NK tunnel a lot. Ever wonder why? Hint #2: North Korea is not a desert.
And if the North uses a nuclear weapon, we respond with one nuclear bunker buster into their main CCC center. The one Kim will be cowering in.
Fantasy, just as your boy Rummy and Cheney wanted to do a decapitation strike on Saddam.

Sounds easy, but your little silver bullet idea has a lot of snags in it. (Oh, wait, Cheney and Rummy weren't your boys, but you just sounded a lot like the both of them. Weird, that is.)

I am a bit out of date, but I am not certain we have the kind of targeting info necessary for such a decap strike.

Would love to be wrong, as I'd like nothing more than to see a JDAM arrive in his lap, this afternoon. (GBU 31, 2000 pound class)

But again, that's a bit of a fantasy.

DR
 
ok they have a lot less to lose but they will still lose in the end. Do they not care at all anymore? What is the point in attacking SK in this day and age, are they that deranged?
 
they have a million soldiers. assuming it stays conventional, they could kick some major $$$.

1.2 million - active- soldiers.

Care to take a stab at how many reserves they can pull up?
 
DR, you are right about the positioning, but at least the cruise missile assets can be brought up where Kim cannot see them. However this is not true of his friends the ChiComs; They have two working spysats last I heard, and lots of patrol aircraft.
 
ok they have a lot less to lose but they will still lose in the end. Do they not care at all anymore? What is the point in attacking SK in this day and age, are they that deranged?


If NK is truly in as bad a state as it appears (and chances are it's a lot worse), they're doomed anyway. It's a country literally starving to death. They might prefer to go out in a blaze of glory rather than slowly rot away from the inside.

And if they can achieve a rapid and dramatic enough initial attack, they might even be able to squeeze some concessions out of the international community in exchange for peace.

The United States won't be a major player in a new war, at least not initially, and that's something the North will be aware of. They're stretched to breaking point as it is - the operations in Afghanistan and Iraq having revealed some woeful shortcomings in US military capability.

Simple fact is a war on the Korean peninsula could potentially result in a death toll in the millions, and the west just are not up to dealing with that scale of bloodshed any more.

If the North made an early gain like capturing Seoul, many countries in the west would be willing to give quite a lot to end the war.
 
One has to wonder if the MSC is getting any of their sealift ships ready.
 
If NK is truly in as bad a state as it appears (and chances are it's a lot worse), they're doomed anyway. It's a country literally starving to death. They might prefer to go out in a blaze of glory rather than slowly rot away from the inside.

To add some context, though, things aren't nearly as bad as they were in the mid-90's when there was widespread famine and millions of people likely starved to death. That was when there were likely real uprisings against the Kim regime and serious instability. If the country survived that, it would seem it would take conditions considerably worse to have any drastic change there.

Since the mid-90's, north Korea seems to have become quite adept at keeping things stable. They are starving, but arguably not starving to death.
 

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