Moderated Legitimate 9/11 Questions

RedIbis said:
Does it go into the strange case of Omar al-Bayoumi?
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Google is your friend. Why do we have to do your research for you.

Page 354-355 as shown here.


I accuse you of trolling around until you stumble on a question for which we can't find an authoritative answer that is on the web and fits on one screen. When that question is found, you will spam the thread with it until you get bored.
 
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BigAl said:
Google is your friend. Why do we have to do your research for you.

Page 354-355 as shown here.


I accuse you of trolling around until you stumble on a question for which we can't find an authoritative answer that is on the web and fits on one screen. When that question is found, you will spam the thread with it until you get bored.
Click to expand...

It's an important aspect of the research. Don't get all worked up. Just follow through on who this guy is and what role he played before 9/11.
 
RedIbis said:
To reiterate an earlier point. Saudi involvement might be researched beyond the bin Laden connection. In fact, I didn't have OBL in mind when I posted the question.
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Saudi involvement in what?

Aren't you the one 95% convinced of MIHOP? This means no "natural" collapse of the towers, and no planes at the Pentagon and in Shanskville.

What's left to be involved in?
 
Pardalis said:
Saudi involvement in what?

Aren't you the one 95% convinced of MIHOP? This means no "natural" collapse of the towers, and no planes at the Pentagon and in Shanskville.

What's left to be involved in?
Click to expand...

Someone had to provide the patsies.
 
Check it out: In a thread titled "Legitimate 9/11 Questions", RedIbis is requesting at least one member here to use their imagination.

:rolleyes:

Maybe they flew the plane back to Saudi Arabia. How's that?

:rolleyes:
 
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RedIbis said:
Did you do any research into the Saudi connections to al-Bayoumi or are you here to spout off as usual?
Click to expand...

Running away from direct questions again, huh Red?

And so you can't accuse me of doing the same, it is certainly possible that he was a Saudi agent and somehow involved in the attacks. There is no evidence of this however.

How any of this fits into your inside jobby job fantasy is anybody's guess and I have no doubt that as usual, you will fail to elaborate.
 
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As some have noted, this thread has become nothing more than yet another rehash of the same old discussions, despite there being a general discussion thread started for exactly that sort of thing. You can either get this thread back on topic or it will be closed.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles
 
I would request that this thread not be closed. I would prefer moderated status, or something else. This thread was an attempt to find some, SOME, middle ground where truthers and debunkers could discuss issues that both agree need answering. It started out that way, and perhaps with a good cleansing of irrelevant posts, and then moderated status, it could become that again.

TAM:)
 
I vote close the thread to prevent more pwnage by Redibis. It's becoming an embarrassment.

In case we don't close the thread, I have several more legitimate questions:

How could Bin Laden be so stupid to plan something like this for years and lay the success of the mission at the feet of Hotdog Hani 'Yeager' Hanjour and a few supposed boxcutters? What am I missing here? Doesn't anyone think (especially the would-be hijackers) that this would be a ridiculous plan? How many volunteers did Bin Laden have to go through to find 20 supposed hijackers that would agree to attempt something so utterly stupid?
 
"Mr. Bin Laden, sir. Who is to be the pilot on our team?"

"Hani"

"Okay! Wow! Just kill me now."
 
In determining which questions are legitimate and which aren't I find it amusing to see that CTists complain that no grass was burned in the field next to where the flight crashed, and then try to use another photo where no houses next to a plane crash site are burned .... They ignore the fact that this supports the field crash and instead try to use it as evidence that the Towers shouldn't have burned :boggled:
 
KreeL said:
I vote close the thread to prevent more pwnage by Redibis. It's becoming an embarrassment.

In case we don't close the thread, I have several more legitimate questions:

How could Bin Laden be so stupid to plan something like this for years and lay the success of the mission at the feet of Hotdog Hani 'Yeager' Hanjour and a few supposed boxcutters? What am I missing here? Doesn't anyone think (especially the would-be hijackers) that this would be a ridiculous plan? How many volunteers did Bin Laden have to go through to find 20 supposed hijackers that would agree to attempt something so utterly stupid?
Click to expand...


Below is a tiny bit of the evidence we have for bin Laden and the 19 Arab Islamist hijackers. Anything you say has to be considered in the light of this information.

Much of what you say shows that you don't know how the 911 plan came together. It was done in a few month. The bombing of the USS Cole (Oct 2000) failed to produce the desired results so ObL planned an escalation.



Table of Contents
[1] Reading list for all the evidence we have about the hijackers.
[2] The martyrdom videos made by 7 of the hijackers.
[3] Arabic spoken in cockpits of hijaked planes.
[4] Boarding manifest for Flt11 that shows hijacker's names
[5] The names of the hijackers
[6] BBC on the names and reporting of the hijackers
[7] Evidence for hijackers connected to bin Laden.
[OBL1] NEWS (Jan 2001) Some See U.S. as Terrorists' Next Big Target
[OBL2] (Jan 2001) ObL Tells Reporter that US attacks are comming.
[OBL3] ObL's connections to 9/11 prior to 2001 described
[OBL4] bin Laden quotes
[OBL5] Al Qaeda: Statements and Evolving Ideology
[OBL6] 1966: bin Laden declares war on America.
[OBL7] ObL attacks on America prior to 2001 listed
[OBL8] Specific attack warnings
[8] Status of Hijacker DNA - (2009)
[9] Answer to "At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive"
[10] FLt 11 boarding maiinfest shows arab names
[11] News Report on hijackers as of Nov 2, 2001
[12] Hanjour as a pilot
[13] Photo and DNA ID match of some of the hijackers.
[14] Identification of the Flt 77 hijackers
[15] Pictures of the Hanjour and another hijacker boarding the airplanes.
[16] Details of airline tickets for some of the hijackers.

If you want to know *why* each person is on the list, read any or all
of these books to get an idea of just how much evidence for who
hijacked the planes and how they are connected directly to bin Laden
and KSM and the American Embassy bombings in Africa and the attack on
the USS Cole. Some of these names were known to the FBI even before
9/11/2001 for their crimes.


[1] -------------------------------------------------------

Essential reading list

The Looming Tower: Al Qaeda and the Road to 9/11
by Lawrence
Perfect Soldiers: The 9/11 Hijackers: Who They Were, Why They Did It
by Terry Mcdermott
The Shadow Factory: The Ultra-Secret NSA from 9/11 to the Eavesdropping on America,
by James Bamford.
PBS Video on Bamford http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/spyfactory/program.html
Spying Blind
by Amy Zegart
Perfect Soldiers
by Terry McDermott

[2] -------------------------------------------------------

This video has the martyrdom videos made by some of the hijackers.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1619489

Hijackers video wills (Scroll down to the bottom)
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Responsibility

[3] -------------------------------------------------------

We have the audio of Arabs on the recovered cockpit voice recorders.

The CVR clearly captured the words of the hijackers, including
words in Arabic from the microphone in the pilot headset up to the
end of the flight. The hijackers' statements, the clarity of the
recording, the position of the microphone in the pilot headset, and
the corresponding manipulations of flight controls provide the
evidence. The quotes are taken from our listening to the CVR, aided
by an Arabic speaker.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/9/11_Commission_Report/Notes/Part_1


[4] -------------------------------------------------------

I have the boarding manifest for Flt11 that shows the names.
http://www.911myths.com/images/8/84/Flight_11_Manifest.gif

The above is a *tiny* part of the evidence we have for 19 Islamists
hijacking the 4 jets on 9/11. There is no alternative theory that is
consistent with this body of evidence.

[5] -------------------------------------------------------

Names:

AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77

1) Khalid Almihdhar - Possible Saudi national
-Possible resident of San Diego, California, and New York
-Alias: Sannan Al-Makki; Khalid Bin Muhammad; 'Addallah Al-Mihdhar;
Khalid Mohammad Al-Saqaf

2) Majed Moqed - Possible Saudi national
-Alias: Majed M.GH Moqed; Majed Moqed, Majed Mashaan Moqed

3) Nawaf Alhazmi - Possible Saudi national
-Possible resident of Fort Lee, New Jersey; Wayne, New Jersey; San Diego,
California
-Alias: Nawaf Al-Hazmi; Nawaf Al Hazmi; Nawaf M.S. Al Hazmi

4) Salem Alhazmi - Possible Saudi national
-Possible resident of Fort Lee, New Jersey; Wayne, New Jersey

5) Hani Hanjour -
-Possible resident of Phoenix, Arizona, and San Diego, California
-Alias: Hani Saleh Hanjour; Hani Saleh; Hani Hanjour, Hani Saleh H. Hanjour

AMERICAN AIRLINES #11 BOEING 767

1) Satam M.A. Al Suqami- Possible Saudi national
-Dates of birth used: June 28, 1976; Last known address: United Arab Emirates

2) Waleed M. Alshehri - Possible Saudi national
-Dates of birth used: September 13, 1974; January 1, 1976; March 3,
1976; July 8, 1977; December 20, 1978; May 11, 1979; November 5, 1979
-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Orlando, Florida;
Daytona Beach, Florida
-Believed to be a pilot

3) Wail M. Alshehri
-Date of birth used: September 1, 1968
-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Newton, Massachusetts
-Believed to be a pilot

4) Mohamed Atta - Possible Egyptian national
-Date of birth used: September 1, 1968
-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Coral Springs, Florida;
Hamburg, Germany
-Believed to be a pilot
-Alias: Mehan Atta; Mohammad El Amir; Muhammad Atta; Mohamed El
Sayed; Mohamed Elsayed; Muhammad Muhammad Al Amir Awag Al Sayyid
Atta; Muhammad Muhammad Al-Amir Awad Al Sayad

5) Abdulaziz Alomari - Possible Saudi national
-Dates of birth used: December 24, 1972 and May 28, 1979
-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida
-Believed to be a pilot


UNITED AIRLINES #175 BOEING 767

1) Marwan Al-Shehhi
-Date of birth used: May 9, 1978
-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida
-Believed to be a pilot
-Alias: Marwan Yusif Muhammad Rashid Al-Shehi; Marwan Yusif Muhammad
Rashid Lakrab Al-Shihhi; Abu Abdullah

2) Fayez Rashid Ahmed Hassan Al Qadi Banihammad
-Possible residence(s): Delray Beach, Florida
-Alias: Fayez Ahmad; Banihammad Fayez Abu Dhabi Banihammad; Fayez
Rashid Ahmed; Banihammad Fayez; Rasid Ahmed Hassen Alqadi; Abu
Dhabi Banihammad ; Ahmed Fayez; Faez Ahmed

3) Ahmed Alghamdi
-Alias: Ahmed Salah Alghamdi

4) Hamza Alghamdi
-Possible residence(s): Delray Beach, Florida
-Alias: Hamza Al-Ghamdi; Hamza Ghamdi; Hamzah Alghamdi; Hamza
Alghamdi Saleh

5) Mohand Alshehri
-Possible residence(s): Delray Beach, Florida
-Alias: Mohammed Alshehhi; Mohamd Alshehri; Mohald Alshehri


UNITED AIRLINES #93 BOEING 757

1) Saeed Alghamdi
-Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida
-Alias: Abdul Rahman Saed Alghamdi; Ali S Alghamdi; Al- Gamdi; Saad
M.S. Al Ghamdi; Sadda Al Ghamdi; Saheed Al-Ghamdi; Seed Al Ghamdi

2) Ahmed Ibrahim A. Al Haznawi - Possible Saudi national
-Date of birth used: October 11, 1980
-Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida
-Alias: Ahmed Alhaznawi

3) Ahmed Alnami
-Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida
-Alias: Ali Ahmed Alnami; Ahmed A. Al-Nami; Ahmed Al- Nawi

4) Ziad Samir Jarrah
-Believed to be a pilot
-Alias: Zaid Jarrahi; Zaid Samr Jarrah; Ziad S. Jarrah; Ziad Jarrah
Jarrat, Ziad Samir Jarrahi


[6] -----------------------------------------

BBC on the names and reporting of the hijackers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html


[7] ----------------------------------

Osama bin Laden connected to 9/11 and attacks on America.

The following is a small part of the evidence that connects bin Laden
with the hijackers and the attacks of 9/11.

[OBL1] NEWS (Jan 2001) Some See U.S. as Terrorists' Next Big Target
[OBL2] (Jan 2001) ObL Tells Reporter that US attacks are comming.
[OBL3] ObL's connections to 9/11 prior to 2001 described
[OBL4] bin Laden quotes
[OBL5] Al Qaeda: Statements and Evolving Ideology
[OBL6] 1966: bin Laden declares war on America.
[OBL7] ObL attacks on America prior to 2001 listed
[OBL8] Specific attack warnings

[OBL1] ------------------------------------

NEWS: Some See U.S. as Terrorists' Next Big Target

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jan/13/news/mn-53626

Bin Laden Is Said to Be at Center of Loose Web
By John-Thor Dahlburg
January 13, 2000 in print edition A-1

...

U.S. and European authorities say that at the center of this web,
which has been loosely spun from the Philippines to North America,
is Saudi militant Osama bin Laden. A former Afghan moujahedeen, or
holy warrior, the 43-year-old Bin Laden is on the FBI's
10-most-wanted list for allegedly sponsoring the 1998 bombings of
the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania that killed 224 people.

In a development indicative of Bin Laden's esteem among his brothers
in arms, after the United States succeeded in obtaining a
U.N. Security Council resolution in October demanding Bin Laden's
extradition from Afghanistan, GIA leader Antar Zouabri issued a
letter that condemned the West for persecuting Islamic militants and
that vowed reprisals.

French officials said Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian national arrested
Dec. 14 in Washington state on suspicion of plotting a bombing in
the United States, received his military training at one of Bin
Laden's camps in eastern Afghanistan.

According to the French, the 33-year-old North African belonged to
the "Roubaix gang," a band of armed robbers of Algerian, Bosnian and
French origin who trained in Islamic camps in Bosnia-Herzegovina and
carried out a series of holdups in Belgium and northern France in
early 1996.

Judge Jean-Louis Bruguiere, one of France's top anti-terrorism
investigators, says a flexible, diffuse and worldwide structure
makes Muslim extremism a growing problem that demands more intense
cross-border cooperation.

In the space of one month, the French judge's investigations took
him as far afield as Canada and Australia.

"The Islamic extremist threat is the Internet of terrorism,"
Bruguiere said.


[OBL2] ------------------------------

June, 2001: ObL Tells London reporter "attacks are comming.

June 21st, 2001: Bakr Atyani, a reporter for Saudi Arabian owned
broadcaster Middle East Broadcasting Corp. meets with Osama bin Laden
and his aides in a desert area of Afghanistan. According to Atyani,
"Bin Laden seemed happy with the talks of his aides who said that the
coming weeks will hold important surprises that will target American
and Israeli interests in the world."

June 22nd, 2001: The US State Department issued a "Worldwide Caution"
regarding the risk of a terrorist attack by extremist groups. It
specifically mentioned groups with links to Bin Laden and his Al Queda
organization as possible sources for the threat.

June 22nd, 2001: US military forces throughout the Persian Gulf were
put on a heightened state of alert.

June 22nd, 2001: A U.S. Marine Corps contingent in Jordan cut short
its training session and returned to its ships.

June 22nd, 2001: U.S. 5th Fleet sent its ships out of port in Bahrain.

June 23rd, 2001: Middle East Broadcasting Corp reported that followers
of Bin Laden were planning an attack on American and Israeli interests
within the next few weeks. Bakr Atyani's interview with Bin Laden is a
featured report.

June 24th: Taliban officials responde

http://archive.democrats.com/view.cfm?id=7743

Described in Bamford [OBL3] Starting on p.16


[OBL3] -----------------------------------------------------

"The Shadow Factory - The Ultra=Secret NSA from 9/11..' by Bamford.
- Description of evidence connecting Obl to attacks on America P. 16

[OBL4] -----------------------------------

bin Laden quotes
http://iraqwar.org/binladenquotes.htm

[OBL5] --------------------------------

Congressional Research Service
Al Qaeda: Statements and Evolving Ideology
Updated July 9, 2007
Christopher M. Blanchard, Analyst in Middle Eastern Affairs
- http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/RL32759.pdf


...The third and "ultimate objective," according to Al Adl, (*)
"was to prompt [the United States] to come out of its hole." Al Adl
claims that Al Qaeda wanted to provoke the United States into
attacking areas of the Islamic world associated with the
organization and its affiliates. In doing so, Al Adl claims, Al
Qaeda hoped to make it easier to attack elements of U.S. power and
to build its "credibility in front of [the Islamic] nation and the
beleaguered people of the world."

Al Adl and others have conceded that the attacks on New York and
Washington were not totally successful, while arguing that the
September 11 attack "was enough to prompt the Americans to carry
out the anticipated response" - namely direct military action
within the Islamic world.

...In December 2004, Bin Laden identified the conflict in Iraq as "a
golden and unique opportunity" for jihadists to engage and defeat
the United States, and he characterized the insurgency in Iraq as
the central battle in a "Third World War, which the Crusader-Zionist
coalition began against the Islamic nation." 24

(*) Al-Qa'ida Leader Sayf al-Adl OSC Report - GMP2005060637100, May 21, 2005


[OBL6] ----------------------------------------------------

1966: bin Laden declares war on America
http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/opf980830a.htm

[OBL7] -----------------------------
ObL Early attacks and aid for attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden#Militant_activity

[OBL8] ----------------------------------------

Specific attack warnings
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&warning_signs:_speci\
fic_cases


[8] ------------------------------------------------
Newsweek - Remains of the Day

Nineteen hijackers died on 9/11. What should be done with what's
left of them? Eve Conant

From the magazine issue dated Jan 12, 2009

...Through a combination of innovative DNA-mapping techniques, help
from the FBI's crime lab and dumb luck, the scientists have now ID'd
four of the 10 New York hijackers. The remains of the nine hijackers
from the Pentagon and Pennsylvania crash sites have also been
confirmed; six other hijackers have yet to be identified. ...

http://www.newsweek.com/id/177724/output/print

[9] -----------------------------------------------

At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers.html

BBC Response
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html


[10] ----------------------------------------------------

Manifest
http://www.911myths.com/images/8/84/Flight_11_Manifest.gif

Discussion
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124907

Flash app shows seating, calls , hijackers,
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/flights/P200018.html

[11] -------------------------------------------------------
News report as of Nov 2, 2001
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/11/02/attack/main316806.shtml

[12] --------------------------------------------

New York Newsday article from 9/23/01.

"Despite Hanjour's poor reviews, he did have some ability as a
pilot, said Bernard of Freeway Airport. "There's no doubt in
my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could
have pointed that plane at a building and hit it," he said."
Most of the complaints that I've seen were that he couldn't
land well. Considering what he was planning on doing, I
wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't exactly the top of his
"skills to hone" list.

http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/disinfo/deceptions/nynewsday_sep23.html

Woman taught 9/11 hijacker how to fly
http://www.capeargus.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=55&fArticleId=3171841



[13] -------------------------

Photo and DNA ID match of some of the pilots.

This 9/11 Commission document explains how the FBI attempted to
verify the hijackers identities (includes an apparent DNA match
with Jarrah).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13950034/...BI-ID-of-Hijackers-by-Family-Members-PENTTBOM

http://911myths.com/index.php/Image:Team5_Box62_AliasesAndIDs-FBIIDsHijackers-1.pdf

[14] ---------------------------------

Identification of the Flt 77 hijackers

This 9/11 Commission document includes details of a forensic
examination of hijacker ID cards recovered from the Pentagon, and a
list of identification documents belonging to the hijackers
(passports, visas, driving licences, more).

http://911myths.com/images/b/ba/Team5_Box46_Chronology_US_Identifications.pdf

[15] --------------------------------

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x34702


[16] ---------------------------------

Detailsin hijacker tickets.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4722224#post4722224
 
KreeL said:
I vote close the thread to prevent more pwnage by Redibis. It's becoming an embarrassment.

In case we don't close the thread, I have several more legitimate questions:

How could Bin Laden be so stupid to plan something like this for years and lay the success of the mission at the feet of Hotdog Hani 'Yeager' Hanjour and a few supposed boxcutters? What am I missing here? Doesn't anyone think (especially the would-be hijackers) that this would be a ridiculous plan? How many volunteers did Bin Laden have to go through to find 20 supposed hijackers that would agree to attempt something so utterly stupid?
Click to expand...



Yeah, RedIbis has certainly made the people who ask him questions he steadfastly refuses to answer look silly. If you didn't know better, you'd swear that he didn't have any answers.

As usual, you're missing everything. The al Qaeda plan couldn't have been too ridiculous, as it worked extremely well. Your lies about Hani Hanjour have been exposed many times--give it up. There is no shortage of radical Islamists who eagerly accept suicide missions, as everyone but you understands.

I've been asking "truthers" to show us when a commercial airliner crashed and its identity was in doubt. The eerie silence of frauds who are normally babbling brooks feeds the growing suspicion that such an event has never occurred. I don't suppose you will be the first to offer that elusive example.
 
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Did General Larry Arnold lie to the 9/11 Commission when he said that NORAD had closely tracked Flight 93 and had planned to intercept it?
 
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