The 25 fulfilled prophecies of Isaiah chapter 53

DOC

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In my thread "Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth" that is currently in the History and Literature forum we touch briefly on Isaiah Chapter 53 of the Bible. Since it deals with prophecy I thought I'd bring it to the Religion forum to take a closer look at this biblical chapter. In the book "Examine the Evidence" author Ralph Muncas examines this chapter on pages 332 - 335. Let's take a look at it. The author uses the New International version of the bible. The numbers to the left are a listing of specific prophecies and not the verse number.

Isaiah Chapter 53

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.

1 He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

2 He was despised and rejected by men,

3 a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.

4 Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

5 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,

6 yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

7 But he was pierced for our transgressions,

8 he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

9 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

10 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;

11 he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,

12 and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

13 By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away.

14 And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

15 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,

16 and with the rich in his death,

17 though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

18 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,

19 he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

20 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;

21 by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

22 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,

23 and he will divide the spoils with the strong,

24 because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.

25 For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

__

The author explains each one but I will just show some of his explanations.

1) Jesus came to human beings in a fashion that would seem unattractive -- as a baby. He worked as an ordinary carpenter (unmajestic).

9) He spoke of himself as giving his life for the "sheep". All human sin was borne by him.

10) When he was oppressed at his trial, he would not open his mouth except as legally required.

14) He was "stricken" for the transgressions (sin) of many.

15) He was crucified with 2 criminals and was supposed to be buried with them.

16) A rich man, Joseph of Arimathea, asked for Jesus' body and placed it in his own tomb.

23) He divided the "spoils" with the "strong" (believers would prosper eternally).
 
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<snipped>
1) Jesus came to human beings in a fashion that would seem unattractive -- as a baby. He worked as an ordinary carpenter.

Um...coming into this world as a baby is unattractive? What? how else should he have done it? UPS?


On a completely related note, I'm so happy to see yet another DOC thread starting. I'm going to start a DOC drinking game. Take a drink of the beverage of your choice whenever any of the following are posted by DOC.
1) Thomas Jefferson saying that "Jesus was the most moral man...EVER!!!!!!1111!!!oneeleventy"
2) A reference to DOC's post count
3) A reference to the response count of any of DOC's previous threads.
4) any mention of Lee Strobel
5) Native Americans are better off because of Christians coming to the new world.
6) Christianity getting people off of drugs
7) 98% of Atheists not knowing about the big bang
8) Evolution being "absurd"
9) Any complete dodge of a direct question - this is a sipping offense due to frequency
10) "DOC is a liar post that adds no value"
11) misuse of logical fallacy

I'm sure that other veterans of DOC's threads will be able to add to this list.
Now for the "finish the bottle" offenses
1) DOC admitting that his logic was faulty
2) Him admitting that he may have been misled
3) Answering a direct question directly, without evasion or delay

Now, the final rule is that if you play this, you must post in this thread. If nothing else, it'll make the later posts WAY more entertaining.
 
So the Da Vinci Code was right after all ?
Christians believe Christ is part of the Godhead (Trinity). One can say Christ will see those who believe (his children) and prolong them (eternal life).
 
<snip>
1) Jesus came to human beings in a fashion that would seem unattractive -- as a baby. He worked as an ordinary carpenter (unmajestic).<snip>

A baby unattractive? Have you ever had children? It doesn't come more beautiful than a newly-born baby.
And what arrogance. Manual labour is nothing to be sniffed at.
 
Christians believe Christ is part of the Godhead (Trinity). One can say Christ will see those who believe (his children) and prolong them (eternal life).

Is there anywhere in the Scriptures (preferably NT) were Christians, or followers of Christ are called/referenced as his children ?

This is not a trick question : I don't remember any quotes, and there might be some.

ETA : Found one :
Book Of Mosiah said:
7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

but it is not canonical.
 
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In my thread "Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth" that is currently in the History and Literature forum we touch briefly on Isaiah Chapter 53 of the Bible. Since it deals with prophecy I thought I bring it to the Religion forum to take a closer look at this biblical chapter. In the book "Examine the Evidence" author Ralph Muncas examines this chapter on pages 332 - 335. Let's take a look at it. The author uses the New International version of the bible. The numbers to the left are a listing of specific prophecies and not the verse number.

Isaiah Chapter 53

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.

1 He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

2 He was despised and rejected by men,

3 a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.

4 Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

5 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,

6 yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

7 But he was pierced for our transgressions,

8 he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

9 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

10 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;

11 he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,

12 and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

13 By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away.

14 And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

15 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,

16 and with the rich in his death,

17 though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

18 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,

19 he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

20 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;

21 by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

22 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,

23 and he will divide the spoils with the strong,

24 because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.

25 For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

__

The author explains each one but I will just show some of his explanations.

1) Jesus came to human beings in a fashion that would seem unattractive -- as a baby. He worked as an ordinary carpenter (unmajestic).

9) He spoke of himself as giving his life for the "sheep". All human sin was borne by him.

10) When he was oppressed at his trial, he would not open his mouth except as legally required.

14) He was "stricken" for the transgressions (sin) of many.

15) He was crucified with 2 criminals and was supposed to be buried with them.

16) A rich man, Joseph of Arimathea, asked for Jesus' body and placed it in his own tomb.

23) He divided the "spoils" with the "strong" (believers would prosper eternally).

The problem with this is that you have the lives of millions of different people to choose from to try to find a "match" for these prophesies. Even if the person we found didn't fit them exactly, we could MAKE them fit, perhaps by, for instance, fabricating a nativity story.

Better yet, make it two!
 
...On a completely related note, I'm so happy to see yet another DOC thread starting. I'm going to start a DOC drinking game. Take a drink of the beverage of your choice whenever any of the following are posted by DOC.
1) Thomas Jefferson saying that "Jesus was the most moral man...EVER!!!!!!1111!!!oneeleventy"
2) A reference to DOC's post count
3) A reference to the response count of any of DOC's previous threads.
4) any mention of Lee Strobel
5) Native Americans are better off because of Christians coming to the new world.
6) Christianity getting people off of drugs
7) 98% of Atheists not knowing about the big bang
8) Evolution being "absurd"
9) Any complete dodge of a direct question - this is a sipping offense due to frequency
10) "DOC is a liar post that adds no value"
11) misuse of logical fallacy

I'm sure that other veterans of DOC's threads will be able to add to this list.
Now for the "finish the bottle" offenses
1) DOC admitting that his logic was faulty
2) Him admitting that he may have been misled
3) Answering a direct question directly, without evasion or delay

Now, the final rule is that if you play this, you must post in this thread. If nothing else, it'll make the later posts WAY more entertaining.

Those are some nice ad homs, but at least you made one reference to this thread. And some of your ad homs are false statements with regard to me, but I'm not going to follow you and get off topic (not this early in the thread anyway). If people who don't know me want to get an idea of my posts there are about 820 of them in the thread I mentioned in post #1.
 
Um...coming into this world as a baby is unattractive? What? how else should he have done it? UPS?

<snippety for brevity>

Now, the final rule is that if you play this, you must post in this thread. If nothing else, it'll make the later posts WAY more entertaining.

I'm yer Huckleberry!
 
Those are some nice ad homs, but at least you made one reference to this thread. And some of your ad homs are false statements with regard to me, but I'm not going to follow you and get off topic (not this early in the thread anyway). If people who don't know me want to get an idea of my posts there are about 820 of them in the thread I mentioned in post #1.

/me takes a swig from the bottle. This *is* offtopic!
/me takes another swig. 820! It is mentioned!
 
Christians believe Christ is part of the Godhead (Trinity). One can say Christ will see those who believe (his children) and prolong them (eternal life).


Okay, so the OP is your take on another author's convoluted interpretation of what some Christians might accept as vague descriptions of what constitutes fulfillment of a handful of prophesies which were made in an anthology of fictional works written over two thousand years ago. Could you get any more desperate in your effort to convince yourself that your delusion is real? (Well, if history is any indicator, of course you can. Why do I even ask?) Anyway, at least it's just exactly as meaningful to contemporary reality as any of your other threads.
 
OT: the problem I have with this post is that it is too much copy/paste what fits.

DOC, can you give me links to complete texts please? I would like to read them.
 
Thread title is inaccurate. Should be The 25 Contrived Postdictions,... etc.
 
You know, there were prophecies that came true in Harry Potter. For example, professor Trelawney prophecied that "neither can live while the other survives;" and sure enough, Harry wound up killing Voldemort.
 
That's not Jesus -- that's Harry Potter!

3 a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
His parents were murdered, his godfather was killed, his mentor was killed, his owl was killed...
5 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
He carried a part of Voldemort's soul
10 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;

11 he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,

12 and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
At the end of Deathly Hallows, he didn't tell any of his friends that he had to go to Voldemort and refuse to defend himself, to let Voldemort kill him. He went quietly.
17 though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
He never tried to cast the killing curse - in their previous confrontations, he only attempted to disarm Voldemort
18 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
Clearly: the "Dark Lord"

20 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
"All in all, I think not." -- after being "killed" by Voldemort, Harry visits Dumbledore at "Kings Cross Station", and returns to life, where Voldemort is unable to do him any further harm.


Clearly, DOC, you need to admit that Harry Potter is just as much a fulfillment of Isaiah as Jesus -- and probably with less "creative interpretation" required.


eta: Wow, I didn't even see Cleon's post when I wrote this! It must be a sign from god!!!
 
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OT: the problem I have with this post is that it is too much copy/paste what fits.

DOC, can you give me links to complete texts please? I would like to read them.

There is no copy and paste, it's Isaiah Chapter 53 as it was written. "New International Version". And this was the same Isaiah 53 that was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
 
That's not Jesus -- that's Harry Potter!


His parents were murdered, his godfather was killed, his mentor was killed, his owl was killed...

He carried a part of Voldemort's soul

At the end of Deathly Hallows, he didn't tell any of his friends that he had to go to Voldemort and refuse to defend himself, to let Voldemort kill him. He went quietly.

He never tried to cast the killing curse - in their previous confrontations, he only attempted to disarm Voldemort

Clearly: the "Dark Lord"


"All in all, I think not." -- after being "killed" by Voldemort, Harry visits Dumbledore at "Kings Cross Station", and returns to life, where Voldemort is unable to do him any further harm.


Clearly, DOC, you need to admit that Harry Potter is just as much a fulfillment of Isaiah as Jesus -- and probably with less "creative interpretation" required...

What about 1,2,4,6,7,8,9,13,14,15,16,19,21,21,22,23,24,25?
 
Let's see if I've got this straight. You're using the gospel stories, which were written well after the fact in literary styles designed specifically to highlight the similarities to the prophecies of Isaiah, conflict with each other on several important facts, and which have no corroborating evidence, as proof that Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of Isaiah.

And you wonder why people make fun of you and your threads?




I have a full glass of Duvel Trappist beer, and am ready!


ETA, okay, 2/3rds of a glass now!
 

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