From Rapture Ready

No, RT, he's blaming God, but he's saying the parents deserved it, as a punishment.

He's saying his God did this to you, on purpose.
He's saying abortion is murder, but his God deliberately kills babies--babies that people wanted and loved--to punish their parents.
He's saying that not only are you in danger of HELLFIRE after you die, but that God has no problem ripping your heart out right here and now, capriciously.
He's saying that when you steal God's cookies, God kills.

These are the arguments of ignorance that harm people, and against which so many here fight.

@Hamelekim: I see by your profile you've been here two years now. That you've seen these arguments before; that you've seen KK and DOC and others, before; and that you're canting their same cant with your fingers in your ears, anyway.
Slow learner?
 
hamelekim said:
Some day you will realize the truth, everyone will because we will all have to stand before God and be accountable for how we have lived our lives.
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No, this is not true even according to protestant fundie doctrine. The way you lived your live is completely and utterly irrelevant if only you - wossname - accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour into your heart at the moment of death.
 
This was understood, Sling. But it also bears mention that this attitude is not representative of the majority of Christians I know. This is simply his own hate.
 
hamelekim said:
The Bible teaches that we are all corrupted with sin, so for the sinners, or psychopaths to be deciding what is right or wrong, and what is a choice is rather foolish don't you think?
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Let's take a view of sinful nature. What is it? Is it rebellion against God? According to the bible it is, and it all began when Adam & Eve ate from the tree of knowledge.

Although A&E were warned of death if they ate of that tree, did A&E really understand what death was, or even disobedience? How could they know the difference between right and wrong?

If eating of the tree of knowledge was a key factor in how man became to realize the difference between good and evil, then A&E were unaware of any wrong or right action beforehand.

This subject has always caused Me to wonder why a loving God would create such a destructive catalyst of punishment, suffering and death and then place it within man's reach.
I consider that to be foolish thing to do.
 
hamelekim said:
The Bible specifically says,

Corinthians 2:9 [snip]​

I think that says it all. We won't be spending eternity floating on clouds and playing harps, nor will we be stuck in heaven without physical bodies. The Bible is very clear that we will be physical and in the physical universe.
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hamelekim said:
Again you have this myopic viewpoint of the world. Every child that is under the age of accountability is in heaven when they die. To be absent the body is to be in the presence of the lord.
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Now I am just left to wonder what it is; physical bodies or not. The first post says yes, whilst the latter seems to deny it.
 
Roadtoad said:
It's one more contradiction, which is one more which led to my departure.
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Its obvious:
Beelzebub wrote teh bible as a series of contradictions to trick otherwise faithful worshippers into doubting the omni-everythingness of teh YHWHY !!! 11 !!!​
 
Ralph said:
<snipped>

If guilt & fear were money--these people would all be billionaires...............
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Unfortunately, quite a few are. Exploiting the gullible seems to come naturally with some "religious" folk.

LisaLynn said:
This was something that used to bother me a LOT. I could not imagine my husband or ANY human being literally burning forever. I could not imagine a being that would do this. As an adult I looked into some of the more liberal interpretations of the Bible and was told about the mistranslation of the word 'sheol' and 'gheanna' in the Bible. I think this makes some Christians feel better because they think 'Oh, my loved ones won't literally burn forever, they will just be dead or separated from God!' It didn't make me feel much better though, because if I were going to live forever, I wouldn't want my loved ones to be anywhere except near me. But that fear...that fear of a literal burning hell takes along time to get out of your psyche.
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Many of us posting here have been burned by the misery of those who would twist words to control us. I learned a long time ago that the people who do this usually had a history of having had it done to them in one way or another, and that it takes a degree of courage to confront them and demand some evidence for their particular interpretation of scripture. My own thought is, if there is a God -- and I have no evidence that the concept of God is anything more than a human longing for some sort of surety, certainty, safety, love -- then such a being cannot be as misanthropes like fundamentalists of all persuasions depict him or her to be.

Humans have the ability to be transcendentally loving, caring, and thinking beings. Fundamentalists, whether leaders or followers, tend to be broken people who have lost sight of the possible. They are in a very real hell, but as long as they live and breathe, that hell need not be eternal.



M.
 
MIKILLINI said:
If eating of the tree of knowledge was a key factor in how man became to realize the difference between good and evil, then A&E were unaware of any wrong or right action beforehand.

This subject has always caused Me to wonder why a loving God would create such a destructive catalyst of punishment, suffering and death and then place it within man's reach.
I consider that to be foolish thing to do.
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Indeed. If a parent leaves a 4-year old alone in a room and tells the child "DON'T PLAY WITH THOSE MATCHES ON THE TABLE!" Then is it really the kid's fault when the parent returns and finds the room on fire? Why were A&E expected to have a better understanding of obeying than a child has?
 
hamelekim said:
The Bible specifically says,

Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
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I think that says it all. We won't be spending eternity floating on clouds and playing harps, nor will we be stuck in heaven without physical bodies. The Bible is very clear that we will be physical and in the physical universe.
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How you got that from what is written there is all magic.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
hamelekim said:
Or are they? The Devil tries to confuse believers, and modifying the Bible would be a very good way to do this. If these manuscripts go against something already in the Bible I would be suspicious of it.
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From what I've gathered reading your posts thus far, you seem to believe that "free will" amounts to nothing more than following what you think people ought to do -- "God says 'Worship me, or else!'"

That said, it's apparent to me that you are in thrall to someone else's interpretation of scripture, rather than applying your own thinking ability to what you read.

There are possibly as many interpretations of scripture as there are people on this planet -- why are you convinced the one you follow is correct in any way? For instance, in an earlier post I declared that I think "God" is "a human longing for some sort of surety, certainty, safety, love." How do you know otherwise? And how do you know that "Satan" isn't that aspect of ourselves that is capable of averting our gaze from the suffering of others, indeed possibly contributing to the suffering of others?


M.
 
Ladewig said:
Why were A&E expected to have a better understanding of obeying than a child has?
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They weren't expected to...

On the contrary, the apple tree was identified simply as a test that they would fail, thereby necessitating the wrath and vengeance of an eternally sadistic, child-molesting arsehole
 
hamelekim said:
God's laws are all just and righteous and yet we ignore those laws and come up with our own selfish laws that benefit few and cause conflict and criminalize people.
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Sure, in the OT, all the killing of every man woman and child is so righteous. And no law against slaverly.

Paul

:) :) :)

A so-called god and that is the best he can do.
 
Paulhoff said:
Sure, in the OT, all the killing of every man woman and child is so righteous. And no law against slaverly.
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I seriously don't know how anyone whose read the bible could make such claims as "all god's laws are just and good..."

Perhaps explaining why god hates mixed fabrics would be a good start...
 
LisaLynn said:
This was something that used to bother me a LOT. I could not imagine my husband or ANY human being literally burning forever. I could not imagine a being that would do this. As an adult I looked into some of the more liberal interpretations of the Bible and was told about the mistranslation of the word 'sheol' and 'gheanna' in the Bible. I think this makes some Christians feel better because they think 'Oh, my loved ones won't literally burn forever, they will just be dead or separated from God!' It didn't make me feel much better though, because if I were going to live forever, I wouldn't want my loved ones to be anywhere except near me. But that fear...that fear of a literal burning hell takes along time to get out of your psyche.
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Even as little kid I remember being sceptical about religion.....I really had a hard time believing all I was hearing about hellfire & damnation.

My mother was catholic-my father was protestant--neither were very religious and for awhile I was spared.

When I got to be 8 or 9 they were talked into giving me some kind of formal religious "training"......and it wound up being catholic.

The parish priest was one of these hellfire & brimstone Irish catholic lunatics who was always raving either about how much jesus suffered for us or about the exact & horrible nature of what hell was like and what was going to happen to us or anybody else that didn't follow catholic doctrine to the letter.

Problem was--my father was one of those protestants that was supposed to be evil & destined for an eternity in a burning hell.

I though my father was a pretty good guy....certainly not deserving of this---and luckily had enough of a conscience to decide the "good father" was full of it.

One day--I think I was about 15---one of my friends came over with a newspaper in his hands. The "good father" was the cover story.

He'd been convicted of raping an adult woman & was heading to the slammer. ( hey--a least it wasn't one of the altar boys).

I think that's the moment I knew I'd been right to trust my feelings.
 
hamelekim said:
The Christian God of course. If you actually read the Bible
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Most of us, me included have read the bible.

you would realize that Christianity is unique among other religions and that Bible Prophecy is very specific about the signs of the last days.

Name any other religion that has had as many prophecies comes true as the Bible has? Every single prophecy in the Bible has come true or will come true in the future.
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This really shows that you need to read the bible. The lack of knowledge is appalling. Stop listening to preachers and read the bible yourself.
 
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GOd, IMO, sounds like a bit of psychopath. How many women have been raped because they rejected the advances of creeps and weirdos. We have a similar situation here eith God - you WILL love me, or I will kill you.

Nice.

Monster
 
LisaLynn said:
I grew up near Winston-Salem, NC. How do you like Greenville? I'm in the Southwest now and I hate it. I can't wait to move back east, but the economy is bad in NC. There is a talk of a move to Maryland or Philly sometime in the next year or so. I'm not big on Philly, but the Baltimore area would be nice.
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We like Greenville a lot. The only major downer is the oppressive humidity in the summer. I used to get depressed in the winter near the Great Lakes because I couldn't go outside much. Now I get depressed in the summer for the same reason.

I also have Varieties, but it's still on the 'to be read' list. I've returned to college at the age of 40, so the free time I used to use to read is now used to study. What's really fantastic, though, is that in an upcoming science class I have to take, evolution is the primary focus of the whole course. I picked the best professor at the college and I'm looking forward to getting a formal education about evolution in the Fall.
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Yeah, we have a four year old son who tends to consume a lot of our free time. But he's so damn cute that I hardly miss it.
 
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