Specter jumps to the Democratic Party

[jj]

So there can't be a second party (Republican or other) without Arlen Specter? I didn't realize he was so important on his own! To weild that sort of power! Amazing!

In other news, I'm not entirely surprised. OK, I didn't actually expect him to do it but I did expect the GOP to push him out for not being reactionary enough.

Vilification
That's the bye word
That old twinkle toes in the sky word
We hate Arlen, he's a traitor, see?
'Cause he just left and now we're left with nothing else to seeeeeee

With apologies to Mary Poppins and "Fortuosity"

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

So there can't be a second party (Republican or other) without Arlen Specter? I didn't realize he was so important on his own! To weild that sort of power! Amazing!

I said no such thing.

What I am saying is that if one does not want America to become a one party state under the democrats, and is not a democrat already, one will not switch from his current party to the democrats.

 

[marksman]

Isn't ripping on the short comings of others how the GOP has won for the past 30 years?

As much as the Democrats ran on ABB.... or anybody but Reagan... or anybody but Nixon...

That's politics in a nutshell of the last 50 years regardless of party affiliation.

Nixon won because he was going to fix the errors of Johnson (Viet Nam)
Carter won because he was going to fix the errors of Nixon (Watergate)
Reagan won because he was going to fix the errors of Carter (Stagflation)
Clinton won because he was going to fix the errors of Reagan/Bush (Iran-Contra and S&L recession)
Bush won because he was going to fix the errors of Clinton (personal scandal)
Obama won because he was going to fix the errors of Bush (too numerous to count)

The last time we had a change in party in the White House with someone who didn't run primarily on the "I'm not like the incumbent" platform were Eisenhower and JFK. And they're aberrations.

 

[dudalb]

Ugh, not good. Taking away the only semblance of balance in government is sure to lead to some fun legislation.

I can actually see a scenario where the more militant Dems in congress seize control of the Party, move it much farther to the left, and the Yellow Dog Democrats and the moderate republicans get together and form a third party.

 

[dudalb]

As much as the Democrats ran on ABB.... or anybody but Reagan... or anybody but Nixon...

That's politics in a nutshell of the last 50 years regardless of party affiliation.

Nixon won because he was going to fix the errors of Johnson (Viet Nam)
Carter won because he was going to fix the errors of Nixon (Watergate)
Reagan won because he was going to fix the errors of Carter (Stagflation)
Clinton won because he was going to fix the errors of Reagan/Bush (Iran-Contra and S&L recession)
Bush won because he was going to fix the errors of Clinton (personal scandal)
Obama won because he was going to fix the errors of Bush (too numerous to count)

The last time we had a change in party in the White House with someone who didn't run primarily on the "I'm not like the incumbent" platform were Eisenhower and JFK. And they're aberrations.

And I could debate that. JFK ran on a "Get the country moving " platform which was pretty critical of Ike, and Ike ran for the first time on the "20 Years Is Long Enough For Any Party To Be In The White House" platform.

 

[marksman]

Good point. Compared to post JFK campaigns, though, I think the JFK and Ike campaigns were fairly tame. JFK was essentially saying Ike's administration was falling behind the Soviets technologically, which few people really believed (except with respect to the Space Race). Ike wasn't even able to say Truman did anything particularly wrong. It was more the principle of the matter.

 

[Puppycow]

The motto of the GOP seems to be "We Don't Need No Stinking Moderates".
The irony is that if the moderate Republicans do began jumping to the Dems, the effect will be to neutralize the more militant elements in the Democratic party.
Which could cause some of the Left Wing of the Democrats to break off and form a splinter party...interesting times we live in.

Yeah, the GOP shot themselves in the foot on this one, by running a primary challenge against Specter.

 

[drkitten]

Yeah, the GOP shot themselves in the foot on this one, by running a primary challenge against Specter.

No. They shot themselves in the foot on this one by supporting someone running a primary challenge against Specter.

Especially in the GOP, political disagreements are usually handled behind closed doors precisely because they (justifiably) don't like airing their dirty laundry in public.

As Ronald Reagan put it : "The personal attacks against me during the [1966 CA gubernatorial] primary finally became so heavy that the state Republican chairman, Gaylord Parkinson, postulated what he called the Eleventh Commandment: Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican. It's a rule I followed during that campaign and have ever since."

The simple fact is that the movers and shakers in the (national) Republican party set Specter up to fail as punishment for swerving from the hard-right party line.

 

[jj]

No. They shot themselves in the foot on this one by supporting someone running a primary challenge against Specter.

Especially in the GOP, political disagreements are usually handled behind closed doors precisely because they (justifiably) don't like airing their dirty laundry in public.

As Ronald Reagan put it : "The personal attacks against me during the [1966 CA gubernatorial] primary finally became so heavy that the state Republican chairman, Gaylord Parkinson, postulated what he called the Eleventh Commandment: Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican. It's a rule I followed during that campaign and have ever since."

The simple fact is that the movers and shakers in the (national) Republican party set Specter up to fail as punishment for swerving from the hard-right party line.

And they did the same thing to Lacy J. Davenpo, err, Millicent Fenwick, including false smears about the house checking scandal, etc, quite a while before that, and actually got away with it.

 

[applecorped]

As much as the Democrats ran on ABB.... or anybody but Reagan... or anybody but Nixon...

That's politics in a nutshell of the last 50 years regardless of party affiliation.

Nixon won because he was going to fix the errors of Johnson (Viet Nam)
Carter won because he was going to fix the errors of Nixon (Watergate)
Reagan won because he was going to fix the errors of Carter (Stagflation)
Clinton won because he was going to fix the errors of Reagan/Bush (Iran-Contra and S&L recession)
Bush won because he was going to fix the errors of Clinton (personal scandal)
Obama won because he was going to fix the errors of Bush (too numerous to count)

The last time we had a change in party in the White House with someone who didn't run primarily on the "I'm not like the incumbent" platform were Eisenhower and JFK. And they're aberrations.

ditto

 

[Ysidro]

I said no such thing.

What I am saying is that if one does not want America to become a one party state under the democrats, and is not a democrat already, one will not switch from his current party to the democrats.

You implied it and then implied it again with the above statement. How does Specter leaving for a party he feels more comfortable with lead to "a one party system"?

Answer: it doesn't. It does skew things further from center. This is ostensibly what the GOP wants.

If they collapse, this does not guarantee a "one party state". There were other parties before and their place was taken by those who better fit a large segment of the population.

So stop with your chicken little predictions please. Disaster is not coming for America, just the Republican party (assuming someone doesn't step up to the plate and pull them out of their downward spiral).

 

[Tricky]

Ugh, not good. Taking away the only semblance of balance in government is sure to lead to some fun legislation.

I can actually see a scenario where the more militant Dems in congress seize control of the Party, move it much farther to the left, and the Yellow Dog Democrats and the moderate republicans get together and form a third party.

The Supreme Court is still heavily conservative. Checks and balances are still operative. The same was not true during the first part of the Bush administration.

And maybe I'm being naive here, but I honestly think Obama will keep the Democrats from turning this into a pork-fest. He still has veto power, and he and Pelosi are not good buddies. Plus he is a smart enough politician to know that there is a limit to how much he can get away with. The honeymoon won't last forever. The reason it has gone on so long is that he continues to throw bones to the conservatives.

 

[applecorped]

The reason it has gone on so long is that he continues to throw bones to the conservatives.

What bones are those?

 

[Tricky]

What bones are those?

Allowing wiretapping to continue. Going after the Somali pirates with guns blazing. Pressing the war against the Taliban. Saying that gun control is not a big issue for him. Not pressuring to have torture advocates prosecuted. Lots of stuff.

 

[applecorped]

Allowing wiretapping to continue. Going after the Somali pirates with guns blazing. Pressing the war against the Taliban. Saying that gun control is not a big issue for him. Not pressuring to have torture advocates prosecuted. Lots of stuff.

Thank you.




Guns blazing?

 

[MattusMaximus]

No it won't. The Dems didn't have to change at all to bring this about. Thus there is no motivation to change afterwards.

If anything, Specter will have to move farther to the left himself in order to please his new voter base.

You seem to be neglecting the 240,000 moderate Republicans in Pennsylvania who switched their party affiliation to Democratic last year. Those were bigtime Specter supporters, and they will continue to be. In addition, Obama and all the top Dems are already voicing support (both financial & political) for Specter.

 

[Tricky]

Guns blazing?

Okay, he's not Harrison Ford, but he's the only president in memory that I could even consider as an action movie hero. (Yeah, I know about Reagan's films, but he sure didn't look the part by the time he became president.)

And it would be a stretch, but Michelle might pass as a Bond girl.

 

[MattusMaximus]

I can actually see a scenario where the more militant Dems in congress seize control of the Party, move it much farther to the left, and the Yellow Dog Democrats and the moderate republicans get together and form a third party.

A centrist third party?! Mmmmm...

 

[applecorped]

Okay, he's not Harrison Ford, but he's the only president in memory that I could even consider as an action movie hero. (Yeah, I know about Reagan's films, but he sure didn't look the part by the time he became president.)

And it would be a stretch, but Michelle might pass as a Bond girl.

Clinton could take Obama without spilling his drink!!!!

 

[Cleon]

Here's a funny thought...

Instead of whining about a one-party state, how about you try to take the Republican party back from the religious-right nutjobs and try to make it something people want to vote for?

You ignore Meghan McCain at your peril.