Merged 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[beachnut]

No

You cherry-pick delusion supporting nonsense, swallow it and then crap it out

And he does so with pride.

Who needs rational thought, evidence, sound judgment or logic; not 911Truth.

 

[tfk]

Hey Al,

Without contradicting your excellent analysis, I think that seeing at a fast 757/767 head-on from several miles away against a brilliant sky is problematical.

In my experience, it depends on a lot of factors. The most important features are the quality of your eyes and your sensitivity to color contrast & motion. I took up flying in my late 20s. Back then, I could pretty easily pick up "traffic, 12 o'clock, 4 miles", if it were the size of a 757. By the time i got to my late 30s, forget it!

Interestingly, picking up planes (the single most important survival characteristic for fighter pilots) is not just acuity. There is a bunch of absolutely fascinating modification that goes on in the interconnected mesh of nerves behind the retina (neural inhibition) that processes the signal before it ever gets to the brain. It gives superb "edge enhancement" and "motion detection" that are the hallmark of all predators. I've been told that this is quite variable from one person to another.

I don't disagree with you tho. It's entirely possible that she didn't see the plane, saw only the explosion on the south tower, and simply associated it with what she already knew: "a plane dunnit".

I agree with you enthusiastically that this is a non-issue. Billy's will crank out this sort of triviality with frivolous & reckless abandon. It is one of the things that separates him from serious questioners of the events of that day.

tom

 

[tfk]

NOT to you, bill.

You can deny it for a long time if you want Al. But you WILL go thrugh your own dark night of the soul at some point. You should just face up to it now. Watch the video at the end of that post of mine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ4dVo5QgYg Firemen's Testimony- Study

This response should strike a familiar chord in anyone who has gone thru the exquisitely amusing experience of being patronized by a brain-dead 14-year-old who is ever so confident that she knows absolutely everything about the world...

The chord should be a combination of warm, wistful bemusement combined with a full-body pucker...

tom

PS. Don't misinterpret, bill. That was for a couple of youngsters that I really care about.

You are just annoying & amusing.

 

[bill smith]

Hey Al,



In my experience, it depends on a lot of factors. The most important features are the quality of your eyes and your sensitivity to color contrast & motion. I took up flying in my late 20s. Back then, I could pretty easily pick up "traffic, 12 o'clock, 4 miles", if it were the size of a 757. By the time i got to my late 30s, forget it!

Interestingly, picking up planes (the single most important survival characteristic for fighter pilots) is not just acuity. There is a bunch of absolutely fascinating modification that goes on in the interconnected mesh of nerves behind the retina (neural inhibition) that processes the signal before it ever gets to the brain. It gives superb "edge enhancement" and "motion detection" that are the hallmark of all predators. I've been told that this is quite variable from one person to another.

I don't disagree with you tho. It's entirely possible that she didn't see the plane, saw only the explosion on the south tower, and simply associated it with what she already knew: "a plane dunnit".

I agree with you enthusiastically that this is a non-issue. Billy's will crank out this sort of triviality with frivolous & reckless abandon. It is one of the things that separates him from serious questioners of the events of that day.



tom

Let's see...if you took up flying in the late 20's you must have been at least fifteen at the time. Say 1929.(interestingly the year the great depression kicked off). So that would put you born in 1914 (interestingly the year WWI kicked off in Europe). So that makes you at least 95 now. I didn't know that ultralights were around in hose days

 

[six7s]

Hey Al,



In my experience, it depends on a lot of factors. The most important features are the quality of your eyes and your sensitivity to color contrast & motion. I took up flying in mylate 20s. Back then, I could pretty easily pick up "traffic, 12 o'clock, 4 miles", if it were the size of a 757. By the time i got to my late 30s, forget it!

Interestingly, picking up planes (the single most important survival characteristic for fighter pilots) is not just acuity. There is a bunch of absolutely fascinating modification that goes on in the interconnected mesh of nerves behind the retina (neural inhibition) that processes the signal before it ever gets to the brain. It gives superb "edge enhancement" and "motion detection" that are the hallmark of all predators. I've been told that this is quite variable from one person to another.

I don't disagree with you tho. It's entirely possible that she didn't see the plane, saw only the explosion on the south tower, and simply associated it with what she already knew: "a plane dunnit".

I agree with you enthusiastically that this is a non-issue. Billy's will crank out this sort of triviality with frivolous & reckless abandon. It is one of the things that separates him from serious questioners of the events of that day.

tom

Let's see...if you took up flying in the late 20's you must have been at least fifteen at the time. Say 1929.(intrestingly the year the great depression kicked off). So that would put you born in 1914 (interestingly the year WWI kicked off in Europe). So that makes you at least 95 now. I didn't know that ultralights were around in hose days

Is stupid something you aspire to? Or does it come naturally?

 

[R.Mackey]

He said "his 20's," not "the 20's."

Also, for what it's worth, the Wright Flyer was arguably an ultralight. Hangglider design predates powered flight, and therefore ultralights have been around since the very beginning. Apart from materials and engine technology, and planform changes in response, they remain much the same today as they were in the Golden Age of flight.

 

[bill smith]

He said "his 20's," not "the 20's."

Also, for what it's worth, the Wright Flyer was arguably an ultralight. Hangglider design predates powered flight, and therefore ultralights have been around since the very beginning. Apart from materials and engine technology, and planform changes in response, they remain much the same today as they were in the Golden Age of flight.

I had originally pictured ole tfk more as ''teddy 1' but 'teddy 2' looks appropriate too.

http://wings.avkids.com/Book/Myth/Images/icarus_03.jpg Teddy 1
http://www.rc-airplane-world.com/image-files/wright-flyer-at-washington.jpg Teddy 2

 

[ozeco41]

NOT to you, bill.



This response should strike a familiar chord in anyone who has gone thru the exquisitely amusing experience of being patronized by a brain-dead 14-year-old who is ever so confident that she knows absolutely everything about the world...

The chord should be a combination of warm, wistful bemusement combined with a full-body pucker...

tom

PS. Don't misinterpret, bill. That was for a couple of youngsters that I really care about.

You are just annoying & amusing.

Which is the usual justification for letting teenagers run the world - whilst they know all the answers.

When they get to "our" age they don't know many of the answers..


....and by MY age there is a lot of doubt about the questions.

 

[Minadin]

Yes, it seems that the more you know, the less you're certain of - at least intuitively.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Been threatened by another twoofer at at tWOOfy forum I post at. I just couldn't help laughing at twoofers, then this guy comes along saying "I rule 10ing dare you to call us crazy", and demonstrating that he IS crazy!

I think I'll leave them alone for a while. They've got to get over the news that their thermite hero now thinks hush-a-boom explosives were used.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

then this guy comes along saying "I rule 10ing dare you to call us crazy"

I dared to do it...

 

[tfk]

In this thread you mentioned joos or some variance in five posts just on the last page without anyone mentioning, Israelis or Jews.

Congratulations, satirical or not, you are the only one using these bigoted terms.

red,

I find racism to be one of the most despicable characteristics on the planet. I am therefore extremely cautious about throwing around the term. And I will jump up in someone's face about using the expression "rag head" just as fast as I will about Joos or any other group.

It is with great dismay that I have to strongly disagree with you. I have had interactions with perhaps 40 different CTers over the course of the last two years or so. Of those, perhaps 5 have objected when their compatriots began the rant against the Zionist who run our government, own Hollywood & the media, steal everything in sight, exagerate the "alleged" Holocaust, funded the Nazis, or quoted the infamous "You know, and the stupid Americans know, that we control their government... no American president can be in a position to challenge us even if we do the unthinkable blah, blah..." crappola.

And every single one of them indulges in the that "I'm not talking about Jews, I'm talking about Zionists". Complete with the self-absolving codicil: "some of my friends are Jews". (I've noted with amusement that they don't usually specify "best friends".)

It is a matter of curiousity to me that, of the 3 CTers that I've ever seen who abandoned the movement, ALL THREE were in that non "JOO baiting" group.

I've been very careful in my own thinking to NOT cast all CTers as antisemites. But it's has seemed to me that close to all antisemites are CTers.

And, most disappointingly, that a disturbingly high percent of all CTers see to be antisemitic. Perhaps they're all that's left after the more sensible have come to their senses.

Parts of me wish this weren't the case. Other parts are perfectly happy that it is. It actually explains a lot.

tom

 

[tfk]

Let's see...if you took up flying in the late 20's you must have been at least fifteen at the time. Say 1929.(interestingly the year the great depression kicked off). So that would put you born in 1914 (interestingly the year WWI kicked off in Europe). So that makes you at least 95 now. I didn't know that ultralights were around in hose days

Typically, reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I did NOT say "I took up flying in the late 20s".

Try again.

This sloppiness is one source of much of your failed understanding of the world.

 

[RedIbis]

red,

I find racism to be one of the most despicable characteristics on the planet. I am therefore extremely cautious about throwing around the term. And I will jump up in someone's face about using the expression "rag head" just as fast as I will about Joos or any other group.

It is with great dismay that I have to strongly disagree with you. I have had interactions with perhaps 40 different CTers over the course of the last two years or so. Of those, perhaps 5 have objected when their compatriots began the rant against the Zionist who run our government, own Hollywood & the media, steal everything in sight, exagerate the "alleged" Holocaust, funded the Nazis, or quoted the infamous "You know, and the stupid Americans know, that we control their government... no American president can be in a position to challenge us even if we do the unthinkable blah, blah..." crappola.

And every single one of them indulges in the that "I'm not talking about Jews, I'm talking about Zionists". Complete with the self-absolving codicil: "some of my friends are Jews". (I've noted with amusement that they don't usually specify "best friends".)

It is a matter of curiousity to me that, of the 3 CTers that I've ever seen who abandoned the movement, ALL THREE were in that non "JOO baiting" group.

I've been very careful in my own thinking to NOT cast all CTers as antisemites. But it's has seemed to me that close to all antisemites are CTers.

And, most disappointingly, that a disturbingly high percent of all CTers see to be antisemitic. Perhaps they're all that's left after the more sensible have come to their senses.

Parts of me wish this weren't the case. Other parts are perfectly happy that it is. It actually explains a lot.

tom

There's not much I can say about the people you've met. All I can say is that here whenever I've seen the terms, "joos" or "the jews did it" etc etc, it's by a debunker. There are bigots who have frequented this board arguing on the Twoofie side, but it's easy (as is often done here) to apply guilt by association.

I seriously question the official version of events, including some suspicious activity on the part of Israeli military officials, but this has nothing to do with anti-semitism.

Guilt by association is a base debunking tactic that attempts to marginalize the opponent's position. It should be, and is avoided by more confident debators.

 

[tfk]

Been threatened by another twoofer at at tWOOfy forum I post at. I just couldn't help laughing at twoofers, then this guy comes along saying "I rule 10ing dare you to call us crazy", and demonstrating that he IS crazy!

I think I'll leave them alone for a while. They've got to get over the news that their thermite hero now thinks hush-a-boom explosives were used.

I'm trying to figure out how "10ing" is the new "f**king".

Are the kids going back to binary??

Can someone explain the etimology of this?

And for that matter, where the heck did "pwning" come from? And how does one pronounce it?

tom

 

[johnny karate]

Guilt by association is a base debunking tactic that attempts to marginalize the opponent's position. It should be, and is avoided by more confident debators.

Unless, of course, one is arguing in support of an inside job, in which case it's perfectly legitimate to slander a construction company because they merely have ties to the controlled demolition industry.

 

[RedIbis]

Unless, of course, one is arguing in support of an inside job, in which case it's perfectly legitimate to slander a construction company because they merely have ties to the controlled demolition industry.

So now they have "ties"? Weren't you saying they had nothing to do with, and had no knowledge of controlled demolition? You've obviously realized how wrong you were.

 

[tfk]

There's not much I can say about the people you've met. All I can say is that here whenever I've seen the terms, "joos" or "the jews did it" etc etc, it's by a debunker. There are bigots who have frequented this board arguing on the Twoofie side, but it's easy (as is often done here) to apply guilt by association.

I seriously question the official version of events, including some suspicious activity on the part of Israeli military officials, but this has nothing to do with anti-semitism.

Guilt by association is a base debunking tactic that attempts to marginalize the opponent's position. It should be, and is avoided by more confident debators.

red,

Stereotyping done right (from the individual to the group) is a useful thing. It simplifies a complex world. Usually over-simplifies.

Stereotyping done wrong (from the group to the individual) is only marginally better than racism. And I'll accept what you've said about your personal feelings. Unless & until you clearly demonstrate otherwise, of course. I doubt that you would have survived the onslaught here if it were not so.

My further experience has been that those who are closet (and not so closet) racists never respond as sensibly as you did.

I further agree with you that, in my experience, the debunkers DO use the term far more often than the CTers. I certainly have. But I've not used it as the pejorative or as an accusation until AFTER the sentiment has been clearly expressed by the CTer that I'm debating.

Nobody said that CTers were completely stupid. (Well, almost nobody. About almost all CTers.) They know that they are going to catch a bunch of flak over it. The same that anyone would over using any racist term.

And so, the CTers don't use the term that often. Or expose those sentiments. They "leak" out. Slowly. Eventually. Almost inevitably on lower quality forums.

The forum that bill has (completely incorrectly) identified as "a healthy, robust discussion of 9/11" is a dying vestige of its former self. And every single one of the remaining CT posters has expressed the most vile of "zionist pigs" rhetoric.

Between the two characteristics (CTism and antisemitism), it is an interesting discussion as to which is cause & which is effect.

tom

 

[DavidJames]

Between the two characteristics (CTism and antisemitism), it is an interesting discussion as to which is cause & which is effect.

tom

I wouldn't characterize them that way. I view CTism and antisemitism more like cancer and heart disease. One could be afflicted with one, the other, both or neither.

Yes, I choose my examples on purpose, I feel both are indicative of someone who is ill.

 

[JimBenArm]

I wouldn't characterize them that way. I view CTism and antisemitism more like cancer and heart disease. One could be afflicted with one, the other, both or neither.

Yes, I choose my examples on purpose, I feel both are indicative of someone who is ill.

I don't know if they are, but they certainly make me ill.