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Waterboarding Rocks!

leftysergeant said:
I translate that as "We're the US of A and there is not a bloody thing anyone can do if we decide to go rogue on your butts."

I would actually like to live in a civilized country. This used to be one, and could be again, but the role that critters like Rummy, Gonzo and Yoo play in shaping it needs to be sharply curtailed, like made small enough to flush down the toilet.

(I'll be there willing to tip the lever, BTW.)
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Self-righteousness such as yours is sickening.
 
Dr Adequate said:
It would be unfair to prosecute dedicated men and women working to protect America for conduct that was sanctioned in advance by the Justice Department.​
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Bolding mine.

So he has, so far, not closed the door on squaring away Gonzo and Yoo.
 
Peephole said:
"We don't torture."

Two years later.

"Ok, so we did torture but it got us valuable intel! We're telling the truth this time, honestly!"
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Under the UN definition of torture giving someone a "red-belly" is torture.
 
Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!

More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!

More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down (and you're just the man to do it!), do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
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I've always been iffy on torture. Someone care to convince me that it's the 'right' thing to do?
 
Texas said:
Under the UN definition of torture giving someone a "red-belly" is torture.
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Well, at least you're not one of the deniers that the U.S. committed torture under every international law. Kudos for that I guess.
 
leftysergeant said:
Do you really think there is a place in a nation of laws rather than men for officials like Gonzo and Yoo?

Ewwww!
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Absolutely. They are no worse than the ones that gave legal cover for Obama to send drones into Pakistan to actually kill "alleged" terrorists and anyone else in range of the missiles including cases of children.
 
Peephole said:
Well, at least you're not one of the deniers that the U.S. committed torture under every international law. Kudos for that I guess.
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No I am saying that the UN definition of torture is ridiculous.
 
applecorped said:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ig-Lt4l7OBj1pzq-eKRjKqthYdLgD97N56RO0

President Barack Obama on Tuesday opened the possibility of prosecution for Bush-era lawyers
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None of whom, I presume, practiced waterboarding.

However, I begin to see where the confusion lies.

Holder said that it would be wrong to prosecute people who practiced waterboarding, if they were acting in good faith on what they were told by the Justice Department.

That doesn't mean that it would be wrong to prosecute the people in the Justice Department who told them that this is what they ought to do.
 
Texas said:
Absolutely. They are no worse than the ones that gave legal cover for Obama to send drones into Pakistan to actually kill "alleged" terrorists and anyone else in range of the missiles including cases of children.
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Back off. That has been going on since we firsat knew what an "al Qaeda" was.

Don't you remember the compost storm that the fat eunuch and his lot let go at Obama when he mentioned that the Air Force was" just bombing weddings and killing innocent civilians and women and children?"

Makes no difference to someone who has no more undersatanding of military science than has the typical Republican that Obama put it in the context of needing more boots on the ground so that we had other tools to use and perhaps more effective strategies. That's the difference between Obama and the Shrub. Obama takes the time to think about whether something actually works or not.
 
Dr Adequate said:
That doesn't mean that it would be wrong to prosecute the people in the Justice Department who told them that this is what they ought to do.
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Yes, it would be wrong.

Unless strong and irrefutable evidence is found that President Bush or Vice President Dick Cheney knowingly and willingly broke the law in their dealings with Yoo’s department, they should not be prosecuted. Even if that’s the finding, the Obama Administration should move with extreme care in bringing charges, because of bad precedents it would set.

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/4323
 
Dr Adequate said:
None of whom, I presume, practiced waterboarding.

However, I begin to see where the confusion lies.

Holder said that it would be wrong to prosecute people who practiced waterboarding, if they were acting in good faith on what they were told by the Justice Department.

That doesn't mean that it would be wrong to prosecute the people in the Justice Department who told them that this is what they ought to do.
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I can see that you didn't even read the memos. The memos were in RESPONCE to the CIA request to use the enhanced techniques. The memos were NOT orders nor were they permission to do so. Yes you are very confused.

.
 
leftysergeant said:
Back off. That has been going on since we firsat knew what an "al Qaeda" was.

Don't you remember the compost storm that the fat eunuch and his lot let go at Obama when he mentioned that the Air Force was" just bombing weddings and killing innocent civilians and women and children?"

Makes no difference to someone who has no more undersatanding of military science than has the typical Republican that Obama put it in the context of needing more boots on the ground so that we had other tools to use and perhaps more effective strategies. That's the difference between Obama and the Shrub. Obama takes the time to think about whether something actually works or not.
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You appear to be getting angry. Obama is killing "suspects" without trial along with civilians but an open handed slap is grounds for imprisonment. I have no problem with Obama and the Predator attacks BUT now that he has made the WOT a law enforcement action he should be held to the same standard as the previous administration. If we follow that then Obama should be tried for murder.
 
From CNN:

In releasing the memos in response to a public records request from the American Civil Liberties Union and other groups, the Obama administration informed CIA officials they will not be prosecuted for past waterboarding and other harsh interrogation tactics.

Attorney General Eric Holder promised in a separate statement that officials who used the controversial interrogation tactics were in the clear if their actions were consistent with the legal advice from the Justice Department under which they were operating at the time.

"My judgment on the content of these memos is a matter of record," President Obama said in a statement released from the White House.

Obama prohibited the use of "enhanced interrogation techniques" such as waterboarding shortly after taking office in January. Such techniques "undermine our moral authority and do not make us safer," he said Thursday [...] He added that the officials involved in the questionable interrogations would not be subject to prosecution because the intelligence community must be provided "with the confidence" it needs to do its job.​

Got that?

Now, while I am not completely happy with this, the Obama administration has a point. If you can prosecute people in the CIA for doing stuff that the Justice Department at the time said was totally OK, then how would the CIA, or, for that matter, the police, dare to do anything at all?

On the other hand, surely if the lawyers were telling the CIA that it was OK to waterboard when it wasn't, then it would, by contrast, be a good idea to make an example of them.
 
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