Simple question for Bigfoot enthusiasts: Why no unambiguous photos/videos?

[LAL]

Lu, you make a great straight woman. You're missing all my riffs.

No I'm not. I just don't feel like playing. I'm tired. I have a headache.

I think that stinks there was a complaint (History Channel)? Being in Japan, youtube was the only way I've ever been able to watch MQ.

I was inspired to buy the first season because of those vids. I have a dish now and I can record the shows (only one so far), but A&E made money off me thanks to YouTube. I'll bet they didn't think of that.

 

[LAL]

Herriott presents himself well on TV. He should - he was a weatherman.

Here's Scott talking Bigfoot on CNN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq7_5DZ3Ik8

Still, he recycles a lot of silly footerisms and thinks he saw a big white Bigfoot based on pareidolia video play and his footer friend's blubbering.

I'm no sure what he saw. On one of my DVDs he says he didn't want to see what his friend was seeing. Daryl saw a dark one lying down. When they went back they found a sort of nest with hair.

He's said on BFF the video is worthless.

He was a stand-up comic at one time. Have you seen his Squatchin' DVDs? I liked the one with the drive across the Bridge of the Gods. I lived about 1 1/2 miles from there. He interviewed Datus Perry (the name was spelled wrong) who didn't have long to live. Datus gave a talk at the Stevenson library and had me wondering where he got some of that stuff. There were quite a few characters in the county. That was one of the nice things about it.

 

[kitakaze]

Dunno. Klamath Falls?

No, no. I didn't mean where did they get the alleged hair samples. You said:

According to Herriott (who's probably the most cynical of any "researcher") the analysis came back human/gorilla/chimpanzee group, but none of the above.

So I was asking "came back from where?" about the analysis. You said the analysis came back as human/gorilla/chimpanzee group, but none of the above. Obviously, as a skeptic, I'm going to ask where the testing was conducted and who conducted it.

I think there are three or four that would be considered unambiguous for an identified species.

I don't know what you are referring to. I'm talking about Bigfoot of which there are a total of 0 unambiguous videos or photos.

Most encounters are at night,

Do you have some factual information to back that claim? I've been looking at reports for a long time and I know a heavy portion of them are in daytime (like the PGF).

most witnesses aren't carrying cameras and even if they are and have the presence of mind to aim and shoot the resulting picture may be just another blobsquatch (or in that case, two blobsquatches).

This is the standard argument and one that simply does not cut it. According to Bigfoot enthusiasts there is a species of massive upright mammal living across North America and we can't even get one decent unambiguous video or photo of it. I can show you video of every large mammal in North America no matter how rare or elusive they are.

Saying most witnesses don't carry cameras or will be swift enough to use them is just silly. There are allegedly 400 sightings a year and not one of these fools can work a camera? What is the precedent for a huge mammal living across at least two major industrialized nations often among human habititation and no type specimen or even a scrap of reliable evidence or unambiguous video?

Owen Caddy tells a story on one of the podcasts about a professional crew that tried for six weeks, with trail cams and other high tech equipment, to get shots of chimpanzees. The troop was especially wary because they'd been hunted. In six weeks the pros didn't even see one.

I'm sorry, I'm really not interested in the anecdotes of a footer with a will to believe in Bigfoot. We have endless miles of footage of great apes and there habitat is far removed. Gorillas were discovered immediately once searched for. Biscuit just posted his sister's great shot she got looking for gorillas.

That anecdote is really not helpful, you see?

 

[kitakaze]

I'm no sure what he saw.

He said he didn't see anything.

On one of my DVDs he says he didn't want to see what his friend was seeing.

He didn't want to see Bigfoot, the thing he was looking for?

Daryl saw a dark one lying down. When they went back they found a sort of nest with hair.

Chimp nests yield DNA. You referred to this one doing the same. Where was the hair tested and by whom?

He's said on BFF the video is worthless.

Well, of course it is. Anderson Cooper and the other anchor scoffed at it rightfully. It is a blobsquatch video that doesn't even have a blob.

Have you seen his Squatchin' vids?

No, but I'd like to for entertainment. Do you know what he's up to now?

 

[Vortigern99]

[

It is a blobsquatch video that doesn't even have a blob.

Does that mean it has a squatch?

 

[kitakaze]

[

Does that mean it has a squatch?

It doesn't even have squat.



...I'm sorry.

 

[LAL]

This is the area after Creek tweaked the blues, as he finally, finally admitted.

 

[kitakaze]

Lu, I'm flabbergasted a smart lady like yourself can accept excuses for the lack of even one unambiguous video or photo of a huge creature that allegedly lives across North America and does so in viable breeding numbers while able to get roughly 12,000 calories a day. Have you seen the OP?

In Northern California alone there is a massive network game cams looking for martens and fishers as well as track plates. Those game cams have photographed every wild mammal know in Northern California including what may be the only one of a species nobody expected, the wolverine. We can find what may have been the only wolverine in the wild in California but not a breeding population of Bigfoots?

 

[LAL]

Well, of course it is. Anderson Cooper and the other anchor scoffed at it rightfully. It is a blobsquatch video that doesn't even have a blob.

There's more to it. I may have a capture somewhere, but the reclining one seems to show eyes and toes.

I'll have to watch the DVD to get the name of the lab. I have class tomorrow and it's late here, so I'm not going to look it up now. I'm not sure which one it's on.

I thought you meant came back from where - as in campsite or motel.

No, but I'd like to for entertainment. Do you know what he's up to now?

No. There are couple left on Amazon.

Caddy worked with primates for years. I see no need to dismiss him as a "footer". It was a good show for a podcast. The link was posted here somewhere, wasn't it, during a Patty face discussion? That's where I got it.

 

[LAL]

Lu, I'm flabbergasted a smart lady like yourself can accept excuses for the lack of even one unambiguous video or photo of a huge creature that allegedly lives across North America and does so in viable breeding numbers while able to get roughly 12,000 calories a day. Have you seen the OP?

I lived in the PNW in a forest. I never even got a shot of a bird I was trying to identify. When a whole flock of them showed up on Blue Lake road we were in the truck and the camera was in the house. I never saw one again.

The sightings I knew about in the Gorge were at night and the witnesses were in cars.

Where do you get 12,000 calories? I thought it was 2-3000 and that's not difficult with meat in the diet.

Given a team of professionals and sufficient time (longer than six weeks) maybe, just maybe, they could get something.

Unambiguous? I doubt it. Skeptics would just dismiss it as more guys in suits.

In Northern California alone there is a massive network game cams looking for martens and fishers as well as track plates. Those game cams have photographed every wild mammal know in Northern California including what may be the only one of a species nobody expected, the wolverine. We can find what may have been the only wolverine in the wild in California but not a breeding population of Bigfoots?

Yep.

 

[kitakaze]

There's more to it. I may have a capture somewhere, but the reclining one seems to show eyes and toes.

I'll have to watch the DVD to get the name of the lab. I have class tomorrow and it's late here, so I'm not going to look it up now. I'm not sure which one it's on.

Take your time. I can guarantee it will not result in reliable evidence of Bigfoot. Besides, you're on the Easter Seaboard of North America where it's around bedtime for most.

Caddy worked with primates for years. I see no need to dismiss him as a "footer". It was a good show for a podcast. The link was posted here somewhere, wasn't it, during a Patty face discussion? That's where I got it.

I'm sorry, but I'm dismissing Caddy as a Bigfooter with a pronounced lack of objectionability. If he's actually going to sit there with a straight face and pass of a lame excuse about some chimps someone didn't get film of as a functioning analogy for why we don't have unambiguous video or photos of Bigfoot, then this is not a person who can be frank about the facts.

Owen is one of the people who couldn't recognize an elk wallow afterall.

Here's Owen Caddy and Rick Noll examining what they think is Bigfoot evidence including another body impression and regurgitated stomach contents:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4U4WjTXOGM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgVgCJq71c8&feature=related

What were these guys thinking?

 

[kitakaze]

I lived in the PNW in a forest. I never even got a shot of a bird I was trying to identify. When a whole flock of them showed up on Blue Lake road we were in the truck and the camera was in the house. I never saw one again.

No, this is not a helpful analogy at all, either. Lots of pictures of birds, right? You really should read the OP.

The sightings I knew about in the Gorge were at night and the witnesses were in cars.

But this is not the factual information supporting the claim that Bigfoot are mostly seen at night that I'm looking for.

Where do you get 12,000 calories? I thought it was 2-3000 and that's not difficult with meat in the diet.

Read Scott. No, listen to Eugenie Scott's excellent presentation. Look at the daily caloric intake of gorillas and black bears. We've recently been having an excellent conversation on this subject in this and the Eugenie Scott lecture thread. Check it out. I have no idea where you are getting 2000-3000 from.

Given a team of professionals and sufficient time (longer than six weeks) maybe, just maybe, they could get something.

I'm sorry, this is a failing suggestion, also. There are now and have been professionals studying a wide array of things in alleged Bigfoot habitat for a very long time. There are and have been countless opportunities for these people to get reliable evidence for Bigfoot yet it never happens.

Unambiguous? I doubt it. Skeptics would just dismiss it as more guys in suits.

Your cynicism is completely invalid. You portray the scenario as though there have been many unambiguous images submitted for Bigfoot which have unfairly been dismissed as men is suits. Please don't try polluting the question with talk of the PGF. The PGF could very easily be a man in a suit and therefore it is not unambiguous. Go look at the amazing videos in the OP. Check the mind-bogglingly rare and elusive animals there. Look at the kermode bears. Do that and come back and let's be frank about the fact that there are 0 unambiguous images of Bigfoot.

Yep.

This doesn't seem like a sincere answer to me or one that makes an effort to address the problem. I recently had an excellent conversation with Vortigern99 on the subject here that you should review. Please try giving me a straightup answer why with massive wildlife detection arrays all over Northern California that have been able to detect what may be the only wolverine in the wild in California but an entire population of huge apes can't be found.

 

[kitakaze]

Many Bigfooters bristle with offence at the idea that the PNW is the only habitat for Bigfoot. Making such a suggestion will inevitably lead to someone producing a Mangani or BFRO map show the North American continent riddled with Bigfoot sightings markers. The hundreds yearly, thousands of sightings are cited as evidence that Bigfoot seems to find a niche wherever there is sufficient cover and a water supply. Such a conversation is currently ongoing at the BFF. Here's a taste from mrmike1111 in "PNW ONLY HABITAT?":

A friend of mine said something to me the other day that was interesting. It's probably been mentioned before, I'm just unaware of it. They have the Yowie in Australia. Is it possible that they've existed since the earth's land mass was a supercontinent? That would involve hundreds of millions of years though right? Just a thought. It's not impossible.

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=24431&pid=525561&st=66&#entry525561

Mmmmmm... I love the smell of fresh idiot, don't you?

The facepalm eludes them greater than Bigfoot is that such a situation of continent-wide Bigfoot is ludicrous without having a type specimen or at the very least a unambiguous video or photo to show for Bigfoot.

Enter this little youtube nugget, a trailer for the Bigfooters DVD "Southern Fried Bigfoot":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bL5u3ugj4w&NR=1

This bit of cryptomumble features notable Bigfoot enthusiasts John Bindernagel, Loren Coleman, Craig Woolheater, the Butt Head clone from the NG "Is it Real?" Bigfoot special, and others. In the beginning of the trailer we see John Bindernagel fresh from telling us about eastern Bigfoots in the MQ "Bigfoot in New York" episode telling us about Bigfoot in the south. The next part I love. If any skeptic on Loren Coleman's book pimping, self-promoting, panhandling site, Cryptomundo, were to declare Bigfoot does not exist, Bigfoot geeks would be flipping out screaming bloody murder about close-minded scoftics having the gall to declare what doesn't exist. Yet here we have the "real deal" cryptofool Loren Coleman proclaiming straight up, straightfaced, straigh out "Bigfoot in the South does exist." Boom, just like that. Yes, it's true. By my book. Save the museum. Thanks, Cryptofool, mystery solved. Coleman then goes on to assure us that this is not something that people are lying about. Hey, thanks, Cryptofool! I guess we can just wipe Creekfreak, Bullet Maker, Mary Green, Janice Carter, and the entire MABRC off that list.

We also see snippits of Woolheater recounting his Bigfoot tale and telling us about the compelling treebreak evidence. Yes, people. Bigfoot is alive and well in the South. Well is a subjective term because due to the variation in the numbers of toes we're finding, The Hills Have Eyes might be a better description.

 

[Aepervius]

LAL, the average human calorie intake for human vary depend on the resource you read on, but the average seem to be for sedentary life 2000 for women, 2500 for men, and a few additional thousand for athletic people.

Unless your BF is very human sized (BH-sized ), it will be way higher than that of a human for a sedentary Bigfoot, for the purported size. And that is not even counting that BF is NOT sedentary, will need even more than doubling that.

So 12000 don't seem too much knowing that athlete during training can need 6000 in average, and BF is purported to be quite a bit bigger and weightier than an average human.

BTW the average american eat far more than that :
United Nations FAO says the average American consumes 3770 calories for 2001-2003.

http://www.fao.org/statistics/yearbook/vol_1_2/pdf/United-States-of-America.pdf

 

[kitakaze]

Post #98 in this thread is a good place to start. Adult male gorillas require 6000-9500 kcal/day and black bears ranging fro 8000-20,000 kcal/day depending on the season. The average sized Bigfoot has been calculated as requiring between 12,000-18,000 kcal/day.

 

[LAL]

Post #98 in this thread is a good place to start. Adult male gorillas require 6000-9500 kcal/day and black bears ranging fro 8000-20,000 kcal/day depending on the season. The average sized Bigfoot has been calculated as requiring between 12,000-18,000 kcal/day.

And also at 2-3000. You can get that from a healthy dose of pot roast. Gorillas are vegetarians (hence the big gut). Bears will scavenge, but I don't think meat is a huge part of their diet.

Hominid primates made a living, probably, by scavenging kills from predators and later by, probably, some ambush hunting.

I disagree that much of Northern California is covered by trail cams. Didn't we have an estimate of about $10,000 to cover a mile? Northern California is huge. The trail cam caught one wolverine. It didn't catch the rest.

If chimpanzees could avoid trail cams for six weeks, why not other primates? The human activity putting them up might be enough to cause the animals to discretely go elsewhere.

 

[kitakaze]

And also at 2-3000.

Lu, what scientific source has put a massive mammal like Bigfoot needing 2000-3000 kcal/day?

You can get that from a healthy dose of pot roast. Gorillas are vegetarians (hence the big gut). Bears will scavenge, but I don't think meat is a huge part of their diet.

Wha?? The matter of the nutrient is not important. It is the calories sustaining life we are discussing.

Hominid primates made a living, probably, by scavenging kills from predators and later by, probably, some ambush hunting.

And what relevance does this thought have to the lack of unambiguous videos or photos of Bigfoot?

I disagree that much of Northern California is covered by trail cams. Didn't we have an estimate of about $10,000 to cover a mile? Northern California is huge. The trail cam caught one wolverine. It didn't catch the rest.

Please catch up. There are real wildlife issues in Northern California that don't concern Bigfoot but would readily yield reliable evidence of Bigfoot. The info is in the measely 5 pages of this thread.

If chimpanzees could avoid trail cams for six weeks, why not other primates? The human activity putting them up might be enough to cause the animals to discretely go elsewhere.

Why are you continuing Caddy's poo-poo? It's an anecdote, Lu. get it? An anecdote. An anecdote about an unconfirmed situation. Why? Really, why? We're talking about a population of huge mammals across North America. Why is this ball so hard to catch for you?

 

[LAL]

Mmmmmm... I love the smell of fresh idiot, don't you?

Blame the educational system for avoiding topics like evolution on Pangea for fear of offending parental Young Earthers.

Link to Caddy:

http://thebigfootshow.blogspot.com/2008/02/episode-3-owen-caddy.html

I'm sure you remember the vis ed for the audience. He explains exactly what he did with the digital microscope shots.

It seems that by your lights anyone who even takes an interest in this has a few screws loose. Have you seen a clear picture of the Skookum Cast?

I find this same attitude from traditionalists on the Shakespeare authorship question. Anyone doubting the Stratfordian view is a crackpot, no matter how good the evidence for another candidate.

It's an interesting phenomenon.

 

[LAL]

LAL, the average human calorie intake for human vary depend on the resource you read on, but the average seem to be for sedentary life 2000 for women, 2500 for men, and a few additional thousand for athletic people.

My metal instructor used to go "siwash" when cross-country skiing with a friend of his. They'd be down to pine needle soup at timberline but they were able to maintain themselves even with a fair amount of exertion. The PNW is full of nutrition for a not-too-picky omnivore.

I've seen areas in the Pisgah that were so much like western Oregon and Washington I felt like I was back there. The Pisgah is larger than the Gifford Pinchot and is likewise temperate rainforest. It actually gets more rainfall on the average than the west slope of the Cascades.

That famous compliant gait might be extremely energy-efficient. I think Meldrum went into a fair amount of detail on this in his book, but since it's class time here in the Easter time zone, I have to go.

 

[kitakaze]

Blame the educational system for avoiding topics like evolution on Pangea for fear of offending parental Young Earthers.

I have a better idea. Let's have a look at the thread titles of the first page of general discussion at the BFF. I see a problem. Do you?

"Is the 'Paranormal Theory' Coming in from the Cold?"

"intrest waning?"

"Groups protecting BF; hiding their existance"

"Do Sasquatch "hunt" deer into oncoming traffic?"

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showforum=1

Link to Caddy:

http://thebigfootshow.blogspot.com/2008/02/episode-3-owen-caddy.html

I'm sure you remember the vis ed for the audience. He explains exactly what he did with the digital microscope shots.

Yes, Patty looks wonderful sucking a lemon. What was the scientific rigour behind Caddy's pareidolia flail, again?

It seems that by your lights anyone who even takes an interest in this has a few screws loose.

That would be a strawman. Wherever have I said such a thing? I find Bigfootery interesting. Far more than any question of Bigfoot's existence. Being interested in Bigfoot is fine. The idea is very interesting. The garbage that Bigfooters pass off as evidence is even more interesting.

Have you seen a clear picture of the Skookum Cast?

Oh, yes. After they removed all the elk hairs and disregarded the elk tracks, did it feel more like Bigfoot?

I find this same attitude from traditionalists on the Shakespeare authorship question. Anyone doubting the Stratfordian view is a crackpot, no matter how good the evidence for another candidate.

Terribly non sequitur.

It's an interesting phenomenon.[/QUOTE]