Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[DOC]

DOC, I addressed this dishonest appeal of yours.

It's not a dishonest appeal; the fact that there are so many black preachers (including highly educated ones like Dr. Martin Luther King) who had relatively recent ancestors who were slaves shows that you're not looking at the big picture of the bible. You're not seeing the big forest because of the trees. Did it ever occur to you that there is a reason all these black preachers, and thousands of black churches, and many slaves during biblical times, and president Obama, don't seem to be too concerned about Jesus not criticizing slavery. You need to seriously think about that fact.

 

[Hokulele]

Why do you consider slavery as being solely a black issue?

 

[DOC]

I'm not the greatest intellect in the world, but the sources you link to are so poorly written and so illogical that even I can see right through them.

Which links are you talking about, and explain why they are poorly written and illogical.

You aren't making any converts. You're not driving them away as effectively as Kurious_Kathy, but your arrogance makes you almost as bad.

This thread is not about me but point out some posts where I've been arrogant.

 

[joobz]

It's not a dishonest appeal; the fact that there are so many black preachers (including highly educated ones like Dr. Martin Luther King) who had relatively recent ancestors who were slaves shows that you're not looking at the big picture of the bible. You're not seeing the big forest because of the trees. Did it ever occur to you that there is a reason all these black preachers, and thousands of black churches, and many slaves during biblical times, and president Obama, don't seem to be too concerned about Jesus not criticizing slavery. You need to seriously think about that fact.

1.) slavery isn't just a black issue. your attempt to invoke race is insulting.
2.) You have NO CLUE what the history of slaves (christian or otherwise) think about christ's view of slavery.
3.) None of thier opinions matter to what the bible says, which is that Jesus condoned slavery.

Instead of thinking of trees and forest, you need to read your bible. Find me proof that Jesus didn't condone slavery or admit that your god condones/permits slavery.

 

[DOC]

Why do you consider slavery as being solely a black issue?

No, but it is has been very much a black issue in the US. That's why some blacks relatively recently asked for reparations from the US gov't because of slavery. So this proves the issue still bothers some blacks who were not slaves themselves, and this fact adds weight to why blacks should be concerned about Jesus not criticizing slavery but in actuality they aren't.

 

[Hokulele]

You are still conflating racism with slavery.

 

[joobz]

No, but it is has been very much a black issue in the US. That's why some blacks relatively recently asked for reparations from the US gov't because of slavery. So this proves the issue still bothers some blacks who were not slaves themselves, and this fact adds weight to why blacks should be concerned about Jesus not criticizing slavery but they aren't.

funny thing how opinions don't change the text of the bible. Find me WHERE the bible shows jesus is against slavery. If you wish, I'd be happy to show you again the texts that show he condones it.

 

[joobz]

You are still conflating racism with slavery.

It's an extremely dishonest thing to do. It's a clear attempt to guilt me into shutting up. Unfortunately, this issue doesn't go away simply because he wants it to.

 

[DOC]

None of thier opinions matter to what the bible says, which is that Jesus condoned slavery.

This shows me you're just using this issue as a cold pawn and could care less about slavery or how the people who actually suffered the most because of slavery feel about the bible.

ETA: and would you say Jesus condoned the fact that his ancestors the Jews were slaves for 400 years in Egypt and Bablylon?

 

[joobz]

This shows me you're just using this issue as a cold pawn and could care less about slavery or how the people who actually suffered the most because of slavery feel about the bible.

That's utter nonsense and you know it.* Either put up or shut up.

Do you have EVIDENCE that Jesus doesn't condone slavery?

ETA: Your attempt to insinuate that I do not care about thier suffering is foolish and another attempt at trying to shut me up. Your statement about whether I care about thier opinion on christianity is mostly true. I don't becuase it has NO BEARING on the current question.

 

[Hokulele]

This shows me you're just using this issue as a cold pawn and could care less about slavery or how the people who actually suffered the most because of slavery feel about the bible.

Now your claim is that blacks in pre-Civil War America suffered the most under slavery?

 

[Hokulele]

And this little derail highlights what is arguably the most problematical issue in the stance of people such as DOC (and Geisler, et al). Christianity, Jesus, and God must be perfect. Any perceived flaw must be denied at all cost. Contrast this with other religions or philosophical positions, and it appears even more bizarre.

 

[DOC]

Do you have EVIDENCE that Jesus doesn't condone slavery?

Jesus quote:

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Slaves are "others" aren't they.

Joobz, blacks who still suffer and many who want reparations for slavery don't seem concerned by any of this regarding Christianity, but I guess you will always be so, so be it I quess.

 

[Hokulele]

Jesus quote:

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Slaves are "others" aren't they.

According to the authors of the original US Constitution, no, they aren't.

 

[L The Detective]

It's not a dishonest appeal; the fact that there are so many black preachers (including highly educated ones like Dr. Martin Luther King) who had relatively recent ancestors who were slaves shows that you're not looking at the big picture of the bible. You're not seeing the big forest because of the trees. Did it ever occur to you that there is a reason all these black preachers, and thousands of black churches, and many slaves during biblical times, and president Obama, don't seem to be too concerned about Jesus not criticizing slavery. You need to seriously think about that fact.

Of course there is a reason that they don't appear concerned. It's for the exact same reason that you're not concerned. And that is: even if they know about it, by the time they found out, they were already totally committed to the christianity. The bible could say far worse things, (which it does) and they still wouldn't be bothered.

No matter how many inconsistencies, illogical or immoral things are in the bible, you are going to bend over backwards to give it the benefit of the doubt, just like you have been doing this entire thread. And that's because, you have no choice. You are emotionally committed.

 

[DOC]

Of course there is a reason that they don't appear concerned. It's for the exact same reason that you're not concerned. And that is: even if they know about it, by the time they found out, they were already totally committed to the christianity. The bible could say far worse things, (which it does) and they still wouldn't be bothered.

No matter how many inconsistencies, illogical or immoral things are in the bible, you are going to bend over backwards to give it the benefit of the doubt, just like you have been doing this entire thread. And that's because, you have no choice. You are emotionally committed.

Not really, I was an atheist in my early and mid 20's. I would say it's called looking at the big eternal picture. Although temporal issues are important, Christianity's main focus is the big picture and eternal life.

 

[joobz]

Jesus quote:

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Slaves are "others" aren't they.

Ah the golden rule. But then Doing unto others seemed to exclude slavery as explained in his parable of the master and slave. (or servant...but we know what servant meant)

Joobz, blacks who still suffer and many who want reparations for slavery don't seem concerned by any of this regarding Christianity, but I guess you will always be so, so be it I quess.

This makes no sense what so ever. Do you often attempt to use race to shut people up?

 

[joobz]

And this little derail highlights what is arguably the most problematical issue in the stance of people such as DOC (and Geisler, et al). Christianity, Jesus, and God must be perfect. Any perceived flaw must be denied at all cost.

It's the shear logical discord that I can't phathom. There's a simple explanation: The people who wrote the bible never considered a society without slavery so it wasn't an issue. But the fact that they made this house of cards built on infallibility of the word means that they can't accept any error. This is why DOC is using distractionary tactics to avoid the central issue.

According to the Bible, Jesus condoned slavery.

 

[Simon39759]

Joobz, blacks who still suffer and many who want reparations for slavery don't seem concerned by any of this regarding Christianity, but I guess you will always be so, so be it I quess.

In fact, quite a few Blacks did abandon Christianity because of its involvement in slavery, that's is the origin of several of the Black muslims and Black Hebrew Israelites movements.

 

[L The Detective]

Not really, I was an atheist in my early and mid 20's. I would say it's called looking at the big eternal picture. Although temporal issues are important, Christianity's main focus is the big picture and eternal life.

So, you were an atheist in your young adult life. Then, you were able to "look at the big picture," and see that Christianity made sense to you. Also, you like the idea of eternal life. Is that your answer?

Then we agree. "Looking at the big picture" is just another way of saying "I saw what I wanted to see." You concede that your desire for eternal life is a central factor in your beliefs... this is a desire. An emotional need. And I'm sure finding meaning and purpose for your life, handed to you upon a silver platter, was also emotionally compelling to you.

It seems you and I agree 100%. You are emotionally committed to Christianity. Although you don't like to use those exact words, you have basically said exactly that. So then, in that case, you have my blessing... please, go ahead and hold your beliefs which make you feel good. My only quibble with you is that I would like you to be more honest. Don't be ashamed of the fact that you believe in something because of emotional need... be more honest with yourself, and everyone else.

Forget evidence and logic... these things, while important to everyone here, are a mere charade for you... you don't need them, you have faith. Live honestly, and rely on that alone.