Universal Health Care in the US. Yea or Nea?

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

As I said, which you may have missed, insurance as a concept is about sharing risk. Not bearing it yourself. It is about the fortunate compensating the unfortunate because they don't know ahead of time if they will be fortunate. Hence they will in many many cases rationally opt to pool (share) the responsibility. And this makes perfect sense since, as responsible as you might think you are, you can't remove all the risks to your well being.

Does your statement of die-hard responsibility mean you refuse any and all forms of insurance? Because if you are insured for anything you are selling (diversifying) responsibility for things that happen in your life

I contribute though. Does everyone contribute to the system you are proposing?

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Nice to see chauvinism is still in style

Sorry, I don't respond well to people (men/women) who try and direct which comments I answer.

 

[Francesca R]

You do have insurance? Then you don't want the responsibility for everything about your life, do you?

 

[Rolfe]

Not remove, just fix. Get all the moochers off.

Look, get this into your head. "Moochers" are a problem in every system. Charity-funded, public-funded safety-net, insurance-based and universal access. No one system has a monopoly on being taken for a ride, and no one system has a reliable answer.

The problem with all attempts to restrict means-tested benefits to the genuinely deserving is that they seem inevitably to impact most severely on these very recipients. The chancers are the ones with the skills in playing the system, and it's the genuine claimant who's lost the right bit of paper or something who loses out every time.

I think your aim as stated above is unachievable, and if pursued vigorously would have serious consequences for some very vulnerable people.

Thinking you can fix your problems just by restricting access to the publicly-funded system even further really isn't going to get you anywhere. Not when set against the fact that in countries with universal healthcare systems, everybody gets treated for what you're paying for your existing safety-net system. That's everybody, including the "moochers".

Rolfe.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

You do have insurance? Then you don't want the responsibility for everything about your life, do you?

Yes, I do. That is taking what I said to the extreme. If I am responsible for myself, I will voluntarily participate in insurance. I will contribute just like everyone else with that insurance does. What I have a problem with is the non-contributers who keep putting their hand in my cookie jar.

 

[Lonewulf]

Sorry, I don't respond well to people (men/women) who try and direct which comments I answer.

Heaven forbid someone want you to actually comment on key criticism and details.

By the way, call me "sweet heart", and you better hope you never meet up with me on the street*.





*Or I'll hug you, grab your ass, and plant a big kiss on your lips. Believe me, you won't like it. And if you do, I'm running.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Look, get this into your head. "Moochers" are a problem in every system.

exactly, so lets get rid of them. Personal responsibility means people who are supposed to keep track of the moochers need to do a better job too.

I think your aim as stated above is unachievable, and if pursued vigorously would have serious consequences for some very vulnerable people.

Thinking you can fix your problems just by restricting access to the publicly-funded system even further really isn't going to get you anywhere. Not when set against the fact that in countries with universal healthcare systems, everybody gets treated for what you're paying for your existing safety-net system. That's everybody, including the "moochers".

YOU THINK! Thankfully, just because YOU think something doesn't make it so. Do you realize you are saying "moochers are everywhere, so lets just let them all get away with it!" NO. I don't accept that. The reason opur system isn't working how it is supposed to is because people cheat it.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

By the way, call me "sweet heart", and you better hope you never meet up with me on the street*.





*Or I'll hug you, grab your ass, and plant a big kiss on your lips. Believe me, you won't like it. And if you do, I'm running.

Won't make that mistake, cutie-pie

 

[Francesca R]

What I have a problem with is the non-contributers who keep putting their hand in my cookie jar.

How do you know you don't have lazy-ass contributors who keep their risky behaviour to themself and end up taking out more than they put in because of that (not because of luck)?

Well, you don't.

Yet you're OK with it.

Why's that? You're subsidising free riders.

 

[Lonewulf]

Won't make that mistake, cutie-pie

You DID ask for it, you know.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I might come to the conslusion that GOVERNMENT might be bad at running a health care system.

Doesn't hold up. It is not any goverment just the american one that seems to be uniquely incompetent.

Other countries make it work, it is the incompetence of americans clearly.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

How do you know you don't have lazy-ass contributors who keep their risky behaviour to themself and end up taking out more than they put in because of that (not because of luck)?

Well, you don't.

Yet you're OK with it.

Why's that? You're subsidising free riders

I don't know that. What I do, is hope the people I'm paying for insurance do their jobs and screen the moochers. You see, I might have this crazy idea that everyone in a society should be personally responsible. I'm not perfect by any means, but I try my best not to take advantage of anything I don't "need" for free. I grew up in a dirt poor family with a single mom, and she never once stuped to getting on food stamps. The I want to vomit when I see people abusing the system that is in place to help the people who REALLY need it.

 

[Rolfe]

That is the million dollar question. There was some girl at work yesterday telling another co-worker how to cheat the system. The one who was running the scam is collecting a check for her kids, while married, so she can pay off her bankruptcy she filed, LOL! I think people who are personally responsible for themselves would be ashamed to cheat for a living.

But this is in the USA! The great place where you're not lazy like we are in Europe, because your system forces you all to take personal responsibility!

How can it all have gone so dreadfully wrong?

Seriously, please stop dragging social security issues into a discussion on healthcare. I'm sure there are some similarities, but this is not about social security, which will always be means-tested and not universal in any system we're likely to see in any of our countries.

Some of what you say does, in my view, have some justification as regards social security, although my previous comments still stand about the moochers being almost impossible to clean out without seriously compromising delivery of assistance to those who genuinely need it.

However, this is healthcare we're talking about. You know, medical treatment for actual illness. It's a lot harder to keep the "moocher" accusation going in that area. Because you do actually have to be ill in order to need healthcare. So, apparently in order to be able to keep running this theme of the undeserving scrounger, you keep focussing in on the relatively small percentage of people whose health problems can really be said to be self-inflicted.

Might be an idea to get your head out of this "moocher" fixation, and talk about actual sick people.

Rolfe.

 

[Francesca R]

I don't know that. What I do, is hope the people I'm paying for insurance do their jobs and screen the moochers.

Sorry, they can't. The moochers have information that they don't and they can't prize all of it out of them and the moochers are not going to vounteer it, see? All they can do is raise the cost to DaN K. StAnLeY so that DaN K. StAnLeY pays enough extra that the moochers don't bankrupt the insurers.

Does pretending that this does not happen at all make you OK with it?

If you want to be free of moochers, you're gonna have to cancel all your insurance and just DaN K. StAnLeY-up to things as and when they happen. Like you said you do.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Can I just say RQ, that I love this website. You all are really so much smarter than I am ( I don't even really know where to put commas in sentences). I would love to meet some the people who post here. I'm being totally serious. If people in government cared about these things as much as the people in here do, I think we'd have an awesome planet. Okay, now back to beating up the dumb American.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Seriously, please stop dragging social security issues into a discussion on healthcare. I'm sure there are some similarities, but this is not about social security, which will always be means-tested and not universal in any system we're likely to see in any of our countries.

I meant a welfare check. She also gets free medical for the kiddies, though.

 

[Lonewulf]

Can I just say RQ, that I love this website. You all are really so much smarter than I am ( I don't even really know where to put commas in sentences). I would love to meet some the people who post here. I'm being totally serious. If people in government cared about these things as much as the people in here do, I think we'd have an awesome planet.

This post alone places you far above most of the people I actually have problems with on this forum. Just to let you know. (I mean it in a positive way)

Okay, now back to beating up the dumb American.

<--- American. Even though I spent half my life overseas, I believe I still qualify.

 

[Lonewulf]

I don't know that. What I do, is hope the people I'm paying for insurance do their jobs and screen the moochers.

How?

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Sorry, they can't. The moochers have information that they don't and they can't prize all of it out of them and the moochers are not going to vounteer it, see? All they can do is raise the cost to DaN K. StAnLeY so that DaN K. StAnLeY pays enough extra that the moochers don't bankrupt the insurers.

So we give up then? Believe me, this mooching frame of mind spreads. I'm sure people in here mean well, but how many of you grew up around people that get free medical care and entitlements? I talking from first hand experience. I've seen and hear people cheating the system (some of the moochers are even friends of mine) and am constantly telling them what I think of what their doing. The response I get 9 outta 10 times is "well everyone else does it" and I'm sorry but I don't accept that.

I think what uni-health does is perpetuate an idea that Americans have that something is owed to them.

 

[Lonewulf]

So we give up then? Believe me, this mooching frame of mind spreads. I'm sure people in here mean well, but how many of you grew up around people that get free medical care and entitlements? I talking from first hand experience. I've seen and hear people cheating the system (some of the moochers are even friends of mine) and am constantly telling them what I think of what their doing. The response I get 9 outta 10 times is "well everyone else does it" and I'm sorry but I don't accept that.

I think what uni-health does is perpetuate an idea that Americans have that something is owed to them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

'nuff said.