Universal Health Care in the US. Yea or Nea?

[quixotecoyote]

I can guess, but my answer would seem stupid and unfair.

So people who live closer to better doctors, deserve better treatment? Gotcha!

First time I've agreed with you today.

1. The "best" care is not always necessary. You need competent care always, but for routine and normal procedures and affairs, spending time getting the best in the field would be wasteful. For instances where only certain professionals could help, then yes, I would assume we'd find those people. I doubt that we'd have to go to the other side of the country, though.

2. Having everyone go to the highest ranked specialist is impossible. There's only one highest ranked specialist and there are going to be hordes of people with problems. There are standards that all medical professionals should be competent to provide you care. If you happen to be served by a highly ranked professional, great! If you don't live near that one, even the lower ranked people should be able to help you adequately.

3. Introducing unrealistic scenarios and hypothetical in lieu of rational argument is pointless.

 

[Rolfe]

So people who live closer to better doctors, deserve better treatment? Gotcha!

The inanity of the straw men being advanced here makes Plumjam's avatar look like a model of gravitas.

Your best argument against universal healthcare is now that under such a system, only the very very best surgeon or physician will treat every single patient in his or her speciality.

Right. That's an inevitable consequence of any universal system, which is why the UK airspace is clogged up with patients being flown all over the country to see the very "top man" for every trivial or routine procedure. [As if.]

Can't have that, obviously.

Do you actually have any reasonable, valid points here? Because if you have, maybe you should articulate tham. Otherwise me might possibly contemplate the conclusion that your stance is based on nothing but bllind, right-wing libertarian prejudice.

Rolfe.

 

[Lonewulf]

I'm interested in something, and I'm not sure if anyone has covered this:

How would be doctors be paid under a universal healthcare system, if we were to take tips from the other relevant countries?

 

[quixotecoyote]

Did you miss all the other points people have made in this post?

Name one other point someone made on why the US could not reduce it's per capita health care cost by adopting policies of other countries that have lower per capita health care costs.

 

[Rolfe]

Did you miss all the other points people have made in this post?

It's a long thread. Lots of people have posted. And lots of points have been rebutted by lots of other posters.

Your side is losing, bud.

When replying to a particular poster, I have this strange habit of addressing the point(s) made by that poster. If you wish to advance a point made earlier which you believe supports your position, please proceed.

Rolfe.

 

[Darat]

I'm interested in something, and I'm not sure if anyone has covered this:

How would be doctors be paid under a universal healthcare system, if we were to take tips from the other relevant countries?

It varies - in the UK "General Practitioners" (GP's) - what I think are known as "family doctors" in the USA (?) tend to be self-employed or have a share in a multi-doctor practice and they have a contract with the NHS to provide certain services. So you can say they are paid directly from the state.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm interested in something, and I'm not sure if anyone has covered this:

How would be doctors be paid under a universal healthcare system, if we were to take tips from the other relevant countries?

To be a bit facetious, very well. Not as much as bankers or football players, but it's nice work if you can get it.

Rolfe.

 

[Lonewulf]

So they would get less, more, or about the same pay as doctors in the U.S.? If the pay is less, would there be any other benefits?

 

[oggiesnr]

When I have my heart attack I want an ambulance to come to me ASAP (not to have to work my way through umpteen 0800 numbers to find one) , I want to go to a competent A&E department (not to have to go to the one my insurance company uses which may not be the nearest or best) , be seen by a competent cardiologist and recover on a specialist ward. I do not want to have to prove I can pay for my treatment or incurr an IOU I may not be able to pay. Thank God I live in the the UK not the USA.

Steve

 

[Darat]

In actual amount, if I recall correctly the last lot of figures someone dug up showed that the average UK GP was paid slightly less that the an USA equivalent. Currently I think the average salary is around £120,000 In the UK GPs can also supplement their income by doing additional work for the NHS or private work.

ETA: Just found this link and even with the recent nose dive of sterling it looks like the average UK GP salary is probably above that of USA family doctor:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2003612303_doctors11.html

...snip...

The median income for doctors in family practice is about $150,000;

...snip...

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Your side is losing, bud.

Yes, and people argue passionately when their freebies are on the line.

 

[Darat]

How would a universal health care system alter your level of freedom?

 

[Rolfe]

My freebies? On what line?

What I think I, and others on this thread find interesting, is why you see universal healthcare as a "freebie", but not universal education, policing, firefighting or highway maintenance.

Why wouldn't you want to have access, yourself, to the healthcare service you're already paying for?

Rolfe.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Thank God I live in the the UK not the USA.

Thank God, indeed!

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Why wouldn't you want to have access, yourself, to the healthcare service you're already paying for?

I already pay for my own insur. and if I didn't have to pay extra tax dollars on other people, it would be more money for ME!!! Imagine that, I keep what I earn! Amazing!

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

How would a universal health care system alter your level of freedom?

I don't know. What are you getting at?

 

[Rolfe]

I already pay for my own insur. and if I didn't have to pay extra tax dollars on other people, it would be more money for ME!!! Imagine that, I keep what I earn! Amazing!

So, do tell. Of your most recent payslip, what percentage of your gross salary did you get to keep?

73% for me, as a "higher rate taxpayer". And no need to spend any of that on health insurance.

Rolfe.

 

[oggiesnr]

Thank God, indeed!

I do regularly.

I have the same condition as a friend of mine who lived in the USA. His medical insurance lapsed when his firm fired him because he was off sick. He's been dead five years, I'm still here and expect to live a whole lot longer. The only "down side" is I can't visit the USA as I can't get insurance. I think I got the better of the deal.

Steve

 

[Rolfe]

I already pay for my own insur. and if I didn't have to pay extra tax dollars on other people, it would be more money for ME!!! Imagine that, I keep what I earn! Amazing!

Seriously. How many times do we have to repeat that for the (tax) price you're already paying, citizens of most other developed first world countries all have access to a universal healthcare system.

So, if you guys could maybe manage to get your act together, then, like most of the rest of us, you'd have no need to pay for your own insurance. More money for YOU!!! Imagine that, you get to keep what you earn! Amazing!

Rolfe.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

I'm also wondering why it is considered not moral to not want to pay for other peoples HC. People are dying all the time from no HC and I don't see the UK citizens flipping the bill for Africans. Is it only moral not to let people in your country die? The problems with uni-health won't be realized until we try it. You socials will probably get your way and then we will see. The big point that is escaping all of you people is that the subject of this post is "Yea or Nea" for uni-health. I say nea because it goes against my morals, and because I'm not ready to give up on a system that is being dragged down probably because all of the soc programs we have now. I'm really glad that uni-health works in tiny countries, but you can't prove our system would be better off like yours, can you?

It's like me saying that because Florida Gators won the ship in NCF, and lots of other teams have success using their offense, all NFL teams should use it too. Does that make sense?